http://dbd.game/killswitch
A few lightweight Sadako changes
Sadako's not in a very good spot right now but I don't think she needs much more than a couple of basekit changes and an add-on pass to get into one.
Remove her lullaby
It doesn’t make sense for a stealth killer to have a lullaby, much less for one to have a directional lullaby. You should either remove it, or at the very least make it not directional.
Remove lock-on limit
When you limited her condemn lock-in, you said that your intention was to stop Sadako from “tunneling high condemn survivors.” The issue is that limiting condemn has the opposite effect. If I hook a survivor with 5 stacks and only lock in 3, I have less reason to let them go than a survivor with 5 locked in stacks. Unless I interrupt their tape run, or they misplay, they’ll go back down to 3 stacks which makes the best time to secure a condemn kill on them as early as possible after the unhook. If I locked in 5 stacks I could leave them for as long as I want without wasting pressure.
Add-ons (not really just me ranting about iri tape)
I don't have any specific ideas for an add-on pass, but I would be remiss If I didn't address the elephant in the room. Iri tape is bad, like really bad, like to the point of being actively detrimental bad, like not even worth playing as a joke levels of bad. Condemn is, always has been, and always will be Sadako's main power, her teleport is eclipsed by almost every other killer with a teleport. Other killer's teleports are available on-demand and Sadako's isn't. So the removal of her condemn is a massive nerf.
In order to make it worthwhile she'd need a large buff to her teleports, and yet, current iri tape nerfs her tv downtime to 84s. That is only 6s off from being a full, unmodified generator. It'd be debatable whether or not it's be worthwhile running it if that 20% penalty was flipped to a bonus. If you give Sadako an add-on pass, please, please, please, completely rework iri tape into a completely different effect.
Comments
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I don’t talk about the lock in mechanic much…but since you brought it up… 🤔
By design, I see the vision the devs created. I see it. I am mixed about it though. On one hand it’s nice they can’t cleanse the previous stacks but on the other hand it doesn’t leave much wiggle room to punish survivors for snatching tapes for free with absolutely no downside.Her stealth’s directional lullaby is the issue and how LOUD it is. You can hear her coming 24 meters away.
Her invisibility is still bugged. Reikos watch is still bugged and has been since Alan Wake chapter which is coming up on 2 years.
I’m shocked she hasn’t been adjusted since. It’s been so long.
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Remove her lullaby
Disagree. Instead make it non-directional map-wide so VTR doesn't make her stealth useless.
Remove lock-on limit
Could go either way on this one. It would help but I don't think it would fix the main issue with her against teams that know her counterplay and shut her down.
Add-ons (not really just me ranting about iri tape)
I don't want BHVR to rework Iri-tape. I actually love the design principle of it. Release Onryo could be played as a high mobility killer because survivors wanted to avoid turning off TVs. However with the reworks survivors will basically always turn off TVS. This add-on is essentially the only thing that makes her feel like old Onryo mobility-wise. However it is flawed.
A letter to BHVR:
BHVR please realize the massive design flaw within Iri-Videotape. The add-on is designed to change up her playstyle for a mobility focus. The add-on makes it so TVs don't turn off when she teleports which in theory should give her really good map mobility. In exchange for TVs not turning off, BHVR did a fair trade off by removing her ability to apply condemn by teleporting.
The result should mean that she loses all her condemn pressure and game slowdown in exchange for map mobility. HOWEVER, in practice, it results in her having no condemn pressure and slowdown while also having limited map mobility. Why? Because survivors can just turn off the TV (which they see all the auras for even though there is no condemn threat) risk free. The moment survivors realize you have this add-on, they will just aggressively shut off your TVs without ever worrying about getting condemned. This leaves Onryo with NO condemn pressure and very limited map mobility as the only TVs which will ever be on will generally be away from where all the survivors are.
BHVR please fix this, it is really simple. Do just one of the following changes:
- When using Iridescent Videotape add-on, survivors can no longer see the auras of TVs.
- This would make it harder for survivors to systematically turn off her TVs, resulting in her being without a power for most of the match due to the add-on. Instead survivors would have to pay attention and seek out TVs to turn them off, thus slowing down their ability to completely shutdown her power.
- When using the Iridescent Videotape add-on, when a survivor is carrying a tape, until they drop-off their tape, they can no longer interact with TVs other than their drop-off TV.
- This would allow survivors to counter the add-on like normal, but now they would have to do tape runs in order to turn off TVs, greatly reducing the effectiveness of 1 survivors running around the map disabling her TVs and resulting in her being powerless due to the add-on. With this change Onryo would either have mobility or at least get some slowdown, unlike currently where survivors will just take away her mobility at no risk or cost.
- When using the Iridescent Videotape add-on, survivors that grab a tape get ticking condemn at a rate of "X" until they drop-off their tape.
- This would balance out the risk reward of the add-on. By adding a threat to doing tape runs, survivors will no longer be able to freely just turn off her TVs at will resulting in her being powerless due to the add-on. With this change Onryo would either have mobility or at least get some slowdown and condemn pressure, unlike currently where survivors will just take away her mobility at no risk or cost.
Just simple changes like these would drastically make Iri-tape the mobility add-on it was designed to be instead of a survivor add-on which it currently is.
3 - When using Iridescent Videotape add-on, survivors can no longer see the auras of TVs.
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Sadako needs more than some lightweight changes. A big part of the issues come from the recent rework where on the PTB everyone said she needed a couple buffs but for some inexplicable reason, BHVR went and nerfed her.
We're now in this state where she is all over the place and so many people have so many differing ideas that I don't think anyone can agree on exact changes.
Condemn Lock
I agree full Condemn lock needs to come back but for a different reason. The whole reason condemn lock as a mechanic was made was to encourage Sadako to not slug but since 3 stacks does nothing you might as well slug. If it takes me 2 hooks to lock in a meaningful amount of condemn, why would I bother condemning them? Half the good perks in the game activate after a hook so condemning someone at 2 hooks hinders you more often than not since you lose out on perk value, so much so if someone is condemned and 2nd stage I don't even bother actively chasing them to condemn them.
Condemn as a mechanic is good for killing people at 0-1 hooks so if I down someone without a tape at 3 stacks or more of condemn, it's in my best interest to keep them slugged. It builds me pressure, it allows me to get further hits on people going for the pickup, it allows me to keep pressure on the condemn when they are picked up and doesn't grant the survivors 2nd chance perks which is the next issue.
If you do hook someone as Sadako and they are at 5 stacks, 3 get locked in. You want to keep those other 2 stacks but what is the first thing they will do? Go try and do a tape run. Not only this, but there is no way for you to deal with them grabbing a tape, they don't lose their 2nd chance perks AND there is no downside to grabbing the tape. Meaning it's in your best interest to prevent them grabbing the tape which means tunnelling them off the hook which leads onto your point.
So not locking in all stacks both encourages you to slug AND tunnel those you do hook immediately, the very 2 things the whole mechanic is meant to counter.
When all stacks were locked in, you could just ignore them off the hook for now knowing that the condemn was locked in. They weren't then encouraged to immediately do a tape run which again, you can do nothing about and there's no downside to doing meaning you're not then encouraged to immediately pressure the unhook to prevent that situation or create unpressurable situations like a survivor with DS holding a tape.
Lullaby
It needs to be reworked in some way, idk about removing it but it showing on the visual heartbeat is a joke. You literally need to run undetectable perks on the stealth killer to actually have stealth. It's so bad that running stealth perks on her against good survivors buys you insane value because they are all so used to her not being a stealth killer that when you are undetectable, you get free grabs and hits all the time.
Add-ons
Iri-tape is the tip of the iceburg, her addons have been butchered from 9 reworks. Every addon that was "meta" got butchered even if it was fine (2nd version of ring drawing was perfect, now it's useless). While addons that actually needed to be adjusted were left untouched and no longer work with her kit. The oblivious/blindness addons, VCR, tape editing deck (literally nerfs you), Reikos watch were all left to rot. Then the addons that needed adjustments like distorted photo, telephone, clump of hair just never got touched despite all being completely useless.
The only one made actually useful from being useless was video tape copy.
Also another thing, why can she be seen from 32m away while demanifested? Freddy has a similar mechanic but doesn't show up until about 10m while you're awake yet you can see Sadako walking at you across Midwich while demanifested with a directional lullaby. What's even the point of the mechanic?
Post edited by YayC on2 -
For the Iri tape, they could make a simple change to it: reverse the bonus into a penalty, allowing the TV to return much sooner. And whenever survivors turn off a TV, regardless of how they do it, they gain an additional stack of condemn.
So that means:
- disable first TV near a generator and gain 1 condemn along with your video tape.
- disable a TV on the way to your target and gain 2 condemn
- disable another unnecessary TV and gain 2 condemn. Now at 5.
- deposit tape into target TV (which is on). condemn goes down by 3 and THEN increases by 1.
Even after doing all this and pretty much disabling 4 of Sadako's TVs for a long time, that survivor is still only at 3 stacks of condemn. But it's still a much better tradeoff than how it was before.
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This should be our official Sadako Thread for her. Any suggestions, feedback, comments or whatever :D
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I also agree that the lullaby should either be removed or be made non-directional. Another idea I also had was to make it so that while a survivor is holding a tape or by a powered TV, they also hear the lullaby constantly so that they cannot tell if Sadako is closing in or not.
Considering how bad the directional lullaby is, I tried something more interesting: I have been playing more of my killer games WITHOUT demanifesting. This has gotten me more hits on survivors because either way they know I am coming, but since terror radius isn't directional, and if I happen to come from an unexpected angle… that means sometimes they run right into me.
Stealth perks are also immensely useful. Why? Because they would at least expect to hear Sadako's lullaby. When they hear absolutely nothing, this lulls them into a false sense of security. Even the pinwheel addon has had some use, allowing for grabs off generators.
So imagine that. Actually getting more hits NOT using your "stealth ability"? You know it's just terribly designed if that's the case…
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Personally i'd have it so the lullaby isnt directional, but not removed. Instead to make Sadako stronger against good players, where she struggles, have it that a survivor holding a tape that gets hit by Sadako gets a stack of Condemn. This creates an actual risk to holding a tape unlike the current risk-free iteration.
Also survivors holding a tape shouldn't be able to turn off other TVs. Turn off the TV you get the tape from and, if it isn't already, turn off the TV you deposit the tape. A single survivors shouldnt be able to shut down more than half the map for Sadako in a single jog.
Since inexperienced survivors don't hold tapes, don't turn off extra TVs, and aren't keen to the lullaby, these changes will hardly make her stronger against the newer players who she is strong against. It will make her stronger against the survivors who are experienced. Countering her power should have a real cost, a real risk.
edit:
Might also point out we could really do with another Sadako cosmetic. A new cosmetic with some much needed buffs would make for a neat little 'revitalization project' for one of the least played, but more iconic, killers in the game. Her clayface from the movie Ring 2 is quite unsettling and fits her theme so well.
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Solid run down man. Your point about no one can agree is so on point.
I think the problem is all 3 versions of Sadako were quite different, and this leads people to lean towards one or the other when looking at changes:
- Version 1 had much more access to her teleports cause it so no worth it to shut down her tapes, she actually hurt herself more than survivors did. Players who want to exert more map pressure amd be rewarded for predicting/cutting off survivor movement prefer and gravitate to this version.
- Version 2 was much more about teleport spamming, trying to wrestle the tapes out of the survivors hands and then hounding them with global pressure until they die. Survivors needing a tape so desperately it shut down a lot for survivor items and action time (such as healing, you needed a tape first), so this version had huge amounts of slowdown and tunnel potential; pretty hard to overcome lethality, which players who liked this version want back.
- Version 3 is much more about hit and run, exerting a lot of map presence by bouncing between survivors yo gain control of her TV macro game. The people who like this version want to keep bouncing between survivors, burning resources and only taking advantageous chases until the Survivor team eventually cracks and makes a mistake.
This disconnect on what Sadako should be makes it difficult for any one to come to a unified front for her.b
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I think version 3 is just somewhere between version 1 and 2. With 2.0 it really didn't matter what you did. You could hit and run, you could spam teleport, you could just tunnel someone, slug, or only try to find people with tapes, controlling your TVs. Since the condemn was global, there really wasn't much survivors could do except cling onto a tape for dear life until they were found - and they hated it.
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