http://dbd.game/killswitch
In Defence Of Unlimited Fog Vials
In a recent post about the recent Fog Vial nerfs, a community manager asked which of the two nerfs contributed more heavily to not wanting to run Fog Vials. This got me thinking, and I think that it would be more beneficial for everyone if Fog Vials went back to infinite use (IE, reverting the max-charges nerf) but had a slightly weaker effect overall (IE, keeping or only adjusting the opacity nerf).
For why I think this, I want to break down what place I think Fog Vials should have in the game in comparison to other items.
It should be obvious, I think, that the intent behind Fog Vials started from wanting to make a chase-based item, as the niche of a dedicated chase item is one that practically isn't filled- all you have is flashlights, and they're not really a dedicated chase item.
Because of its effects, I think it's also fair to say this item is designed to break chase via stealth effects, rather than extend chase by making distance somehow.
An item like that shouldn't be limited use, in my opinion, because making an item limited use necessitates making the power of each use proportional. A stealth-based chase item as potent as it'd need to be to justify only two uses would be hellish to face, and would cause BHVR to continue needing to play whack-a-mole to find an extremely slim sweet spot for the balance.
At the same time, if the item had a low threshold for attempting to use it - say, a noticeable but not crazy cooldown as they had before, even one that's a little higher - then the lesser strength would balance out to something that it's worth putting time in to learn. You get a lot of chances per trial to find the right spacing and timing to use it, alongside finding any other niche uses the item might have, but the effects themselves don't get out of hand. It's still a sweet spot, and it's still not a crazy wide one… but it's safer than the alternative.
In short, giving the item a useful but not crazy potent effect per use and balancing that with a lot of uses is more engaging and interesting for both sides, since killers never have to worry about insanely potent chase-ending effects but survivors get a useful tool they can hone their use of over multiple games because attempting to use it carries with it a much lower opportunity cost.
So, the conclusion: Make Fog Vials infinite use, make the opacity consistent on all maps but probably keep the nerf overall, and then remove an effect or two- ideally remove footstep muffling, and maybe have it only hide player auras so hooks aren't hidden. I could also see footstep muffling continuing to be present but having grunts of pain be more audible, so it's ahrder to evade the killer while injured… you get the point. However we get there, weaker (but still useful) effect with infinite use is the healthier direction to go.
(As an aside, ThatRyanB deserves a raise for so diligently sifting through the vitriol to get meaningful feedback.)
Comments
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I feel like the limited uses could work IF it's something like 3-4 times.
The main issue right now is making them consistent, so they don't have differing effects based on what map or against which killer they are used.
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They can’t make killer powers consistent across all maps. Why would this be any different?
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That's definitely the most important part, but the next step down on the priority queue would be deciding between strong but limited and weaker but more accessible.
Mostly I just wanted to air my thoughts, though.
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I feel like old opacity with 2 charges, or new opacity with 4 charges personally.
With the thinner opacity, you want to be able to just throw them and try to get value whenever half a chance presents itself, and 4 charges let's me just gun it whenever I think it's a halfway good idea to try and get value.
With 2 charges, that is so limited I would want to be 100% SURE I get the value... so that needs the thicker opacity.
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Are people genuinely seeing many fog vials in game right now? For me it’s like everyone has moved back to flashlights, med-kits and toolboxes.
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I've not played much but I haven't seen them in the games I did play.
I think you'd see them more with these changes made, though.
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2 times is waaaay too nerfed. I dont understand why they would do it.
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I would much rather revert the opacity and keep limited charges. The opacity nerf made fog vials much less useful imo even with infinite usage.
That said, I agree 2 charges is not enough and I think it should be bumped up to 3, but no more than 3 either.
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The thing about only having three uses is that those uses need to be very potent to make up for it.
I personally think it would be healthier to have the item balanced with a just "decent" effect instead of a really potent one, and give players more opportunities to get value from it. That outcome really is better for everyone- no high risk of whiffing your extremely limited item, but no super potent, super annoying effect to deal with on the killer side either.
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Fog vials are completely useless now. You can see all the way through them, and now you can see scratch marks.They're just wasting space now.
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To be fair, I'm pretty sure you can only see all the way through them on some maps, because the opacity is inconsistent across realms.
That's why I suggest fixing that as a major priority for the item.
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I mean that's the issue though, the current effect is really not decent, they're honestly quite bad right now and were bad last patch even with unlimited charges. The opacity reduction weakened them far too much and I don't think they ever should've been nerfed that way, other than Potent Extract (which was overtuned but then got overnerfed), the opacity was never an issue other than the map-specific bugs which need to be fixed. The only reason base fog vials were overbearing originally was because they could be used too often and there wasn't much strategy in saving them for the right moments, they could basically be used in every chase which was unhealthy. The effect itself was always fine, the problem was that the effect was too common.
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The vial was perfect at launch and then we had the killers sobbing so the pacifiers got pulled out. What a disappointment, just when there was some hope and fun to be had, completely useless item now.
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My personal assumption about the current opacity is that it seems worse than it is because it isn't consistent across maps. I am working on the assumption that fixing that will make the current opacity fairly decent.
If not, at that point yes, buff the opacity. However we get there, I think the Fog Vials should be balanced around infinite use but comparatively weaker/just decent effect.
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Deeply unhelpful attitude, friend.
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I agree with you, this item was perfect. Even playing as a killer, I had no hard time chasing a survivor through the fog. Yes I could lose them a bit inside it. But I always found them easily again.
But doing it right you could lose the killer. Idk how killers lost me while using them. While for me it was so easy to hold down a chase. Some killers did hold the chase through the fog.
The fog didn't effect much at the first launch. It was balanced tbh. Now it's not useable at all. Maybe you can lose a spirit in phasing. That's all.
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