Overhaul Conviction
ZERO reason a survivor should be able to basically instantly pick themselves up, get endurance, and buy an extra 30 seconds (if not more for their team). It's fundamentally a terrible design and should be removed and changed to something completely different, I don't get how yall are so incompetent.
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It’s only 30 seconds. After that they flop back down to the ground like a dead fish.
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Endurance comes from a seperate perk, Soul Guard. If you don't own it, you'll just go down again.
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I don't think it's even that bad. It's a whole build to save 30 seconds. You can do that with Built to Last and a Commodious Toolbox for 1 perk + item slot.
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Killers really complain about everything lmfao
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So do survivors. It goes both ways.
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To be fair, this is pretty BS. I rate
Just go down vaulting a window or pallet and it's a free 10 second extension at least to the chase, and up to 30 seconds if there is safety nearby that the killer can't get to body block. It's even worse if Survivors go down under pallets and have a friend linger nearby. You can also put the killer in a must pick up situation via Plot Twist.
Also dude... only 30s? A 30s chase extension is massive...
I rate Tenacity cause it often buys me an extra 3 seconds on pick up as the killer fumbles trying to pick me up facing a wall to avoid flashies... 3 seconds can mean a key gen avoids a pain res, a heal completes against haemorrhage/mangled, a gate gets to 100 instead of 85...
30 seconds is not chump change... that's a massive chase extension. 😶
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The perk is fine. It's something to replace 50yrs stale meta and result in down anyway unless paired with plot twist which is one time use anyway untill EGC. It requires minimum two perk slots and killer to ignore you for about 10s before picking you up, just to get down 30s later which will result in someone has to go and heal you anyway, which is passive slowdown like slugging. If the perk can see some changes I would remove self heal activation and increase pick up from 30 % to 40 % so it's more of antislug. But current version defienetly is situational like unbreakable and offers value only if killer plays specific way.
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If it were one time only or it was more difficult to get used, I'd be more inclined to agree, but it has a pretty generous activation condition, that even procs off yourself.
If it worked more like Second Wind, no argument, but you a literally final tap yourself or any heal to get it.
This perk does create a lot of obnoxious scenarios for killer. I have managed to mitigate it's damage in some games by playing like a God. I had one game where my Trapper traps put in work against this... scoring something like 10-12 snares... I got a 2k. I've had games as Trapper where I've gotten only 1 snare the entire game… needless to say, if my trap placement wasn't as devious as it was, and they were a little more aware, I'd have been smoked... and I was downing well, I was playing really good... and this perk gave me a quite a headache on 3 players.
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I think the activation condition is generally fine, because it's kind of double-gated. You need to have it up, and then the killer has to not instantly pick you up.
Having it be a one-time use would mean there's practically zero reason to use it over Unbreakable.
If anything, Second Wind could do with changing it's activation condition, not the other way around. Having a perk activation robbed because another Survivor decided to join the heal for a second is really annoying, and a big reason I don't run it more.
I think a perk having the potential to cause a bit of a headache isn't necessarily a terrible thing. It's a sign that the perk can be effective. If perks never caused the other side any trouble at all, that's a good indication that the perk is not good. It was a headache, sure, but it sounds like both sides were playing very well, and even with a low tier killer, you still got a pretty good result.
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They just need to up the recovery amount and it will be fine.
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Weeeeelll, I suppose with the new bar thats been set for perks in DBD, yeah Second Wind is on the underpowered side.
The problem I have with this version of Conviction is there is little needed to earn it. Sure I have no issue with a perk being effective, but there is a limit... the big problem with Survivor perks is up to 4 players can take them, so if a perk is highly effective and quite consistently, then the perk becomes a problem, especially when it puts the killer in a lose lose, and when it also does it by passively existing.
So what's the issue with Conviction as it is? The problem is that it only takes 7.5s to reach 25% recovery. If you go down under pallets, that means you force the killer to pick you up within 7.5s or they risk you standing up and slamming that pallet in their face, and buying an extra 10-30s on the chase. That is a big deal for the killer, and one you can't ignore... but if you couple wipe mechanic minus the time to land start recovering for the Survivor (and I'll deliberately highball thia in the killers fabour to make the point) you drop this to about 6s.
This means the killer now has to effectively check the area for flashlight saves and pallet saves in less than 6 seconds, this is needless day very tight, ang the reality is your gonna have to yolo pick up more often than not to avoid this, which makes you vulnerable to flashlight and pallet stuns... the killer is in lose lose…
This doesn't even need extra perks to be effective, but you can obviously quite a few perks to make this worse and consistently get value...
So I'm not saying nuke the perk from orbit... but any notions that this perk "isn't that strong" is not at all true... it is definitely strong and causes the killer a lot of trouble. It's still early days yet, I'm not gonna say it's OP just yet but there definitely things go be concerned about with this perk and needs to watched carefully.
Regarding my game as Trapper, I did a 2k, and I did play very well... but while I'm not insulting my opponents... I would say they did not play quote as well... my traps did so much work, that tbh I would say was at an abnormal level of success for Trapper, and they certainly weren't exploiting their builds as hard as they could have been...
I left that game, feeling pretty lucky that I a 2k tbh... and that was after playing quite aolid... admittedly on Trapper, but even so... I saw several moments where they could have put me in a much worse position, and I breathed a big sigh of relief when they didn't... so I'm watching perk carefully.
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Great input bro, really helped the discussion. Don't know how you think being able to pick yourself up in mere seconds, and then get endurance with just 2 perks is okay. Conviction is fundamentally a flawed perk and nothing like it should exist. 30 seconds doesnt sound like a lot, but that couldnt be farther from the truth, it just straight up gives you up to 30 seconds of extra chase, which if you do the math is basically a 3rd of a gen, any swf, even a duo, can easily abuse this perk and put lower tier killers who already need buffs in extremely bad positions in which they cant do anything about. Don't know why you thought this comment was neccesary when your doing 0 things to contribute to the discussion
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30 seconds for your whole team is basically a whole gen, given that they spread gen progress. It should only be activatable once or at the very least have a much harder activation clause.
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anyone who disagrees should just read this it says all that really needs to be said.
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yeah… but still a 30 second extension to chase which is a third of a solo gen
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