You Literally Just Murdered Sadako
Her ENTIRE POWER is being able to kill survivors without needing to get them to 2nd hook state using her condemn. Doing this now will provide the survivors a PERMANENT repair speed bonus because to play Sadako efficiently you can't afford to hook the whole team 6 times before you condemn them, you'll have lost by that point already. Infact against most decent survivors you'll be at 1 generator left by the first condemn which you'll have 2-3 hooks if you're lucky.
Not only this but the ONLY counterplay to breaking tapes is hooking a survivor. So now when we do that to prevent them cleansing, when we then mori them which is a common scenario we can no longer regress generators.
She's already an extremely weak killer and now she is actively punished for using her power well EVEN MORE.
Comments
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Read the patch notes again! That penalty only applies for the last hooked survivor.
Meaning: you chose to tunnel and kill someone off even though you have buffed basekit Barbecue and could go chase another survivor.
If you read the patch notes properly, paying attention, it’s 10/10. I’m hyped up for the next chapter!
-16 -
You need to read them again.
- Added new effects that disincentivize tunneling:
- If a Survivor dies before 6 total hook states, all remaining Survivors gain a repair speed bonus for the rest of the Trial.
- If the Survivor that was last hooked is Sacrificed or Killed, generators cannot be regressed or blocked.
This has nothing to do with tunneling. Sadako kills people without getting to 6 hooks. Doing so now gives survivors a permanent gen speed bonus. Countering the tape mechanic means Sadako will no longer be able to regress generators. Both of which kill Sadako.
24 - Added new effects that disincentivize tunneling:
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Uhm… no her power is Tape Slowdown and Teleport. The Mori is for when Survivor fail to fix their tape charges.
-16 -
Sadako is going to struggle even more. She needs fixes in her designs asap please. While I love the anti tunnel changes, this is bad news for Sadako.
11 -
I mean the point still stands... if a Survivor ignores tapes and Sadako kills them for it, Sadako is punished by buffing the Survivor side and losing the right to regress gens.
Same thing if a Survivor dies to Pig trap... the killer is punished for a Survivor not doing their trap... now in Pig's case its less egregious because the Pig probably does have to be tunneling to get a head pop... but the point of Sadako is to maintain condemn pressure on Survivors. It's not passive like Pig, Sadako has to track Survivors, time TVs and track tape positions to actively apply Cobdemn pressure in order to force Survivors to do tapes.
No Sadako is ever going to say to themselves "OK this survivor is on 6 stacks now, they have to do a tape, thats great slwodown for me". Every single one will say "One more stack and thats a kill! Which TV is theirs?".
11 -
Also since I'm here:
🐽PIG NERF! SOUND THE ALARM!!!🐽
7 -
No it's not, the mori is what makes Sadako unique and is the only thing Sadako has going for her. Why on earth would you play Sadako for her Teleport when Dredge exists who has a teleport that doesn't go on cooldown for 45s when she uses it or 70s when the survivor DELETES HER ABILITY TO TELEPORT alongside Nightfall and ACTUAL ANTI-LOOP...
A 1 second tape interaction is not slowdown.
16 -
While I agree with you that spreading condemned and getting condemned kills is still the true depth of Sadako's gameplay, the tapes are more than just 1 second of slowdown.
You have to find a TV which isn't deactivated and then take it to the TV which is the furthest from the one you got it from. So it's only a 1s interaction to put the tape in but you still have to run across the entire map, assuming you were able to quickly get a tape in the first place.
2 -
Sadako needed buffs at this point not more nerfs! I went out of the second Sadako rework thinking that they put her in a healthier state just so that they can make her better over time in a way that's good for the game for both sides, but it's been anything but. Her counterplay has remained incredibly braindead easy while her weaknesses have only been getting more and more apparent with how the game has been progressing since then. The one second interaction times and tape not being destroyed on hit anymore has been a major mistake at this point. Holding onto a tape has no risk when it should.
No a survivor can just grab a tape and do gen. When Sadako gets close, you just pre-run against her because you denied her her only mobility and she's easy to see coming despite being categorized as a stealth killer. Insert the tape right in front her because it's a measly one second (Can do it before her hit cooldown is done even). Get downed with no stacks and have her gain no condemn stacks on you if hooked or be left on the ground and now get yourself a free pickup ability if left slugged. She's getting screwed over in so many ways right now that I'm beginning to lose my mind.
8 -
Her power is to Condemn and mini mori survivors as an end reward for successfully doing so. The slowdown is a passive benefit from this playstyle as it's how survivors are supposed to combat against it to try and avoid her curse as long as possible. But now the counterplay is so easy and quick that the slowdown has begun to lose much of its pressure nowadays and her mobility is also shut down in doing so. That just leaves her as an M1 "stealth" killer with manifestation mind games as her only thing to lean on against competent survivors.
3 -
Its not playing effectively when you are playing against a survivor who dont know what they are doing.
Ofc Survivors need compensation if that happens and then you can just slug them before the 6th hooking is done.
-10 -
More than just 1 second of slowdown? You've got to be kidding me.
Finding a TV that isn't deactivated is incredibly easy and a part of your normal movements as a survivor. Just go to any generator and a TV should be nearby. If the TV is off, just work on the gen. When the TV turns on, grab the tape and just work on the gen. You can't gain condemned near a TV that is turned off and you're also shutting off her mobility in doing so.
If Sadako begins making her way to your gen, or if you finish that gen, just start moving away and make your way to the target TV where you can then insert the tape and remove about all of your gained Condemn stacks even if Sadako is chasing you because she can't interrupt you properly with the interactions being just one second.
6 -
Wow. This is literally going to break the game. And I mean seriously. Could be very unintended consequences.
Imagine if sadako moris 2 survivors without getting any hooks. Does that mean the remaining two survivors now have +50% repair speed?
What if she mori's all four? Will the server crash due to a bug? 🤣
Dear god I'm a sadako main and I just realized how much this is going to suck.
8 -
This killer shouldn't be balanced around survivors who have no idea what they're doing against the power, but that's what the devs have been doing by making her counterplay so braindead easy. And you can't just slug people nowadays with Conviction existing and especially after this upcoming update if it goes through because there's basekit Tenacity and Unbreakable coming in with it.
6 -
Don't worry. You get enough kills and experience on Sadako, and you won't be dealing with potatoes who don't know about TVs and tapes for long….
4 -
If you cant make a meaningful play in 90s of the Survivor slugging around, then you are playing against higher mmr survivors than you should play against, which is a shame but it happens. But actually you can slug and you should.
This killer shouldn't be balanced around survivors who have no idea what they're doing against the power
The Killer isnt being balanced around that, the game in general is being balanced around that and the solution is to buff the remaining survivors to compensate for the poop team-mate. Sorry if you want an easy game for tunneling someone out, that wont be able to happen as easily anymore, which is a good change.
Should this be a monumental problem for Sadako, she can be buffed later.
-7 -
"She can be buffed later" is what a ton of people were saying about Sadako after her second rework, and it has yet to happen yet. Whenever someone tries bringing it up, we get people like you accusing them of just wanting an easy game for tunneling someone out. This will be a monumental problem for Sadako, and the devs will actively drag their feet to buffing her just like how they do whenever she gets bugged which has been quite constant.
Why does Sadako have one second interaction times? Why do her TVs have aura reading on them when turned on? Why are tapes no longer destroyed on hits? Because she's being balanced around survivors who didn't know how she worked or those who actively refused to engage with her playstyle and power.
If you need a base kit unbreakable after being downed for 90 seconds, on top of the basekit Tenacity, then perhaps you are playing against higher MMR killers than you should play against. Not even mentioning the repair speed boosts and unkickable and unblockable gens if a recently hooked survivor dies before six total hook stages are had. Or the lack of unhook notifications and delayed hook status UI for the killers. Give me a break.
8 -
Imagine if sadako moris 2 survivors without getting any hooks. Does that mean the remaining two survivors now have +50% repair speed?
In this hypothetical scenario, you've won the game.
Who gives a single crap about how much gen speed survivors might get when the only strategy with any gens remaining and two survivors is to wait out hatch?
-5 -
Maybe you should actually read and comprehend the rest of my post.
Everyone's going to care if the servers wind up crashing due to some buggy code.
5 -
I read it, still not seeing how killing all 4 survivors is going to crash the game.
And since I responded to a direct quote, in context, you haven't really had any discussion on that either.
The majority of this entire thread seems to misunderstand that the "killing survivors" post is intended to be rare, and with counter play for the survivors. (It's also completely within the killers choice to do so, and you can still hook people who are full).
Powers like pig hats and Onryo condemn aren't there primarily to get kills, it's slowdown that forces survivors to do something other than gens. With pretty harsh punishment for ignoring it. That doesn't change.
-4 -
Brother, who gonna waste time in running around when sadako can't kill them anyways? that's pointless, only pressure for her "slowdown" is mori, if she can't mori, there is no slowdown
I think you should think twice before posting something like that
6 -
Killing survivors with Sadako's Condemned mechanic is not supposed to be rare. The only people who say this do not play Sadako nor have any intention to understand how she works.
9 -
Oof, I didn't think about that. Yeah, I mostly support the tunneling changes, but this is a problem. Same thing kinda applies to Pig too, if a survivor fails to remove their trap in time the killer should not be punished for that, that's literally just part of their power
5 -
This is going to come off kinda rude, and I don't mean it as such, but if you're good at killer, you shouldn't need to rely on condemned. It's not meant to be her main playstyle, it's to punish survivors for not dealing with it when they have the chance. That's why the stacks become permanent when they get hooked. I run a scourge hook build on Sadako that pressures the survivors enough that they hardly ever get all gens done. I think this a great way to punish people who exploit her power instead of playing the game normally. It forces Sadako players to get better at the game by playing normally rather than resorting to a crutch playstyle that can't be fun for either side. Can you honestly say that you have fun playing like that? Your bloodpoint gain is probably slower too as a result because you're not taking part in mechanics that would normally give you a lot of bloodpoints.
-8 -
I'm betting they didn't think out how these proposed changes would interact with Sadako's power, especially when she's going for condemned kills.
5 -
There is no "punishment" for survivors anymore, they will get reward for not interacting her, with increased gen speed and regression immunity
2 -
Idk I feel like they're gonna customize it based on killers they already said that about the stronger killers getting less bonuses from the hookign rewards, remember guys its not even out yet so don't lose your minds but its still very good feedback if they do not incase think about this which I hope its not..
0 -
Wrong, Survivors dont need these changes, these things are not done because Survivors have a need to.
They are done because of all the people who quit dbd and there has been many its mainly tunneling. And maybe of us who still play would like something done about tunneling, that is why we are doing these changes not what survivors need to survive.The reason devs drag their feet is because there is no urgent problem, Sadako's killrate is acceptable, maybe not acceptable to you but thats not the issue, if this change does something, she will become urgent, its that simple.
who gonna waste time in running around when sadako can't kill them anyways
You can kill them, but the game just wont be easier because you tunnel someone out anymore.
or Slug them, make a play in less than 90s.-4 -
Given the detail in the paycheck notes and not all details being revealed, plus certain killers being limited in the base kit aura reading, I heavily doubt that the devs just outright ignored killers who bypass the hook stages.
Plus, I feel like this is highlighting the issues with Sadakos weaker kit which needs to be buffed and changed anyways after so many reworks. The new system was not designed for just Sadako, and it shouldn't be disregarded just for her. It can be tweaked to account for her ability to kill survivors without relying on hook states, but reacting this way is kind of freaking out over something we don't remotely know enough about until we actually test it on the PTB servers.
-1 -
You spawn in, you go to generator, there is a guaranteed tv on generator. TV's don't turn on for 30 seconds. You get Tape when TV turns on costing you 1 second. You now are free to pressure the gen for the next 70 seconds. TV turns back on around 3/4 of the way through gen, walk 3 seconds, do the half second interaction to turn it off, finish gen.
You now have a tape and 1 stack of condemn. You need to do another generator, the deposit TV is NEXT TO ANOTHER GENERATOR. You walk to deposit tape and immediately jump on the generator next to you. You have 70 seconds of free pressure on the generator. TV turns back on and you grab the tape by camping it around 3/4 gen progress like before. Rinse repeat.
If you've gained enough stacks of condemn to where you need to cleanse, that was because you mismanaged your condemn. The counterplay is so easy that you should never find yourself at more than 4 stacks of condemn
6 -
Uh huh.
Well if you never play "optimally" and don't threaten to mori people, then you have no passive slowdown, which means less pressure. So let's assume you are playing optimally and threatening to mori people.. which means that yes, they CAN be instantly killed if they make stupid decisions, or hard gen rush, or just get some bad luck.
Now this scenario that you think is perfectly fine is… the survivor team gen rushes and ignores their tapes for the most part, one of their team gets killed, and NOW they are rewarded by being able to do gens even faster? And I believe now the gens won't be able to be blocked or regressed either?
That makes no sense, and is why your opinion is garbage.
6 -
If survivors don't need these changes, then the changes don't need to go through. If tunneling is a problem, then maybe look into why tunneling has become more and more of a necessity especially for the lower-tier killers. Survivors have been becoming more and more powerful on top of gens being completed even faster than they ever have before. This is driving the weaker killers into using the efficient strategies more and more. The more you keep nerfing the killers, the sweatier they end up becoming just to have anything work.
"Sadako's killrate is acceptable"
Really? At low MMR where she stomps people who have no idea how she works or what they're supposed to do? That totally makes up for her being an easy win to go against when competent survivors are actually present? She's been in urgent need of buffs for a long time now and inhabiting the bottom of the killer tier lists for a good reason. I already went over a lot of the problems she was left with. Nothing was ever done to compensate for the nerfs she was given in the 3.0 rework and it would have been even worse if massive backlash wasn't had over their last-minute nerfs in that PTB.
And that 90 seconds for the slug timer is additive. It fills up over all the different times a person is left on the ground according to BHVR. The moment it's filled up, it's a permanent Unbreakable for the rest of the match. Way on them to buff sabo squads even more by removing the only counterplay killers had to that playstyle.
3 -
This is false. Tunneling has always been an issue. The faster gens go the faster hook states go. Thats the name of the game. Who can beat who.
5 -
It's been "highlighted" by every sadako for a year and a half and it's been ignored every time.
4 -
Did you not see the healing perks constantly being buffed over time while anti-healing effects have remained timer-based in a Vigil meta? Franklin's Demise got butchered. The new map spawn logic is inconsistent and even more breakable with offerings. Hook stages being 10 seconds longer made the pressure from them even less. Shoulder the Burden became a thing. All while incredibly popular second chance perks have remained untouched for so long.
When you keep removing the killer's ability to apply pressure, what do you think is going to happen? They resort to what still works. Hit-and-run and status effect builds died thanks to rapid healing and Vigil. A killer needs to commit to chases, but time is short especially for the M1 killers with low mobility. It's shorter to focus on two survivors than all four... Oh… that's considered "tunneling" now and will actively punish the killer despite never going for the same person twice in a row because you need SIX hook stages before the killer is allowed to do their bloody job.
This will surely not affect killers that rely less on hook stages nor could it ever be abused by survivors in the end game to secure the final gen. Killers like Sadako are merely a figment of our imaginations.
5 -
Saying "no offense" multiple times before outwardly insulting me is not a very constructive use of anyone's time.
Healing perks have very much been getting buffed while anti-healing has been left in the dirt. Need I remind you just how recently that Botany Knowledge of all things got buffed? Or Desperate Measures? Or Empathic Connection? All back in June. Orela's chapter introducing yet another potent healing perk in that one.
Am I not "knowledgeable enough" to point out things that have happened that recently? Or is it too inconvenient of a topic for you to get into?
4 -
That's right… GET BACK IN THAT WELL BISH… and stay there! Ferment in your own red ring ♥️
-6 -
Do you guys work at BHVR? We still don't have the ptb or even specific notes just very bare bones soon to come to PTB announcement at this point.
Where are you guys getting this information? Doomposting is up to lvl 500 at this point honestly.
Seem's like theres so many insiders that already know the PTB test is gonna be completely cooked, and there's no shot if the patch is so bad theres massive blowback that's gonna go live… surely… oh wait the clown changes!
-4 -
Yeah. Not much hope for the PTB to change much when we've seen how those have gone. This is taking the Sadako 3.0 rework PTB in mind as well which initially went well until sudden changes halfway in that never got resolved until post updates after the chapter. Better to have the backlash start early with what we know. The finer details can either help put out the fire (unlikely) or just make it burn even brighter (most likely).
0 -
Yea… Survivors really want to have 3 players no tunneling or camping waiting from the killer end sarcasm.
1 -
Remainder: No one cares about Twins and how thsi will make going for pick up cross map pretty much useless.
2 -
No we can just read and understand how our killer works and it turns out, she is infact dead. Wow, who woulda thought.
5 -
######### is even this response? I never claimed otherwise, keep being a negative nancy bruh you sound like a very fun person to be around ngl.
-2 -
So you come in with a reply to try and downplay and make fun of people who are legitimately worried about changes destroying the playability of something we enjoy in a game, turns out you were incorrect because YOU didn't read the patch notes and now you're saying you never claimed otherwise while calling me a negative nancy. Lmao, you should probably read what you initially wrote.
3 -
Gaslighting won't work on me man, we didn't have details in the patch notes or how they functioned before it was all I merely stated. Idk why you are so hostile but you seem legit like you gotta touch grass or something man cause all I was saying was wait for the patch notes lol.
-2 -
"All I was saying was wait for the patch notes"
Yet we were able to fully realize the implications of the proposed changes enough to see it exactly how it would end up before the patch notes came out. And it turns out that the changes were so bad that there's a delay for them even to go back to the drawing board. Wow, who could have seen that coming?
Learn to accept that you were wrong and move on.
0 -
I wasn't wrong, actually the reverse since they didn't go through with the changes with the upcoming chapter lol.
Post edited by BoxGhost on-3 -
That us "doomposters" were even able to see just how bad the patch was before it even needed to get a week of testing before being postponed for reiteration is quite sad to see. You were even mentioning the Clown changes which still went through despite massive backlash to that PTB as an example so not really assuaging us of it doing the same for this one which actually ended up happening.
Do we work at BHVR? Don't need to.
Didn't have PTB or details for it? Wasn't necessary at that time.
Where were we getting the information from? BHVR themselves.
Doomposting? Nah, just being right.
Us "insiders" were using common sense to realize exactly what BHVR's proposed changes would do to the game before the PTB even went live, but feel free to keep telling yourself that your heckling to our early warnings had any merit.
0 -
Totally unrelated but this reminds me of the time I perfectly timed a Flashbang with Nurse's Blink and it crashed the game. I wonder if it did that for all 4 of us lmao
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