Can killers get a basekit weaker pain resonance instead of a weaker pop goes the weasel?
I know the ptb isn't out yet so we don't know the numbers , but I think we all know that a stronger gen kick with a fresh unhook will be really usefull on some killers, while basically useless on others. How do i know this? Because it's already the case in the live game. Low mobility killers can't really user pop goes the weasel effectively because they don't make it to the generator in time or they just don't have the time to walk across the map to find and kick a gen, since they lose out on too much pressure. Pain resonance however is almost always usefull on most killers (unless the scourge hook rng is rough).
So my suggestion is to give killers a basekit weaker version of pain resonance on fresh hooks instead of a weaker pop goes the weasel. This would give all killers a bonus to hooking and not just the high mobility onces. Before people say anything I know that killers will also get haste, but I imagine this haste won't be enough. Unless they make it really high like 50% it won't affect low mobility killers at all. Like imagine playing on Azarov's resting place as a low mobility killer. What on earth is pop goes the weasel with some haste going to do for you? Especially if the gen with the most progress is on the other side of the map. It's gonna be useless. While a weaker pain res as basekit would be way more universally usefull and would be easier for newer players.
Having it be so that the hook gives you a stronger gen kick can also be convoluted for new and casual players unless properly shown and explained (which knowing dbd that won't happen), while an instant weaker pain resonance would make sense and be way more clear and easy to use for newer and casual players.
I know people ar gonna say that we should wait until the ptb to dscuss this kidna stuff, but people forget the devs don't update the ptb once it starts. We only get 1 ptb before all of it gets delayed, scarpped or brought to live. I would rather test out how a basekit weaker pain res would work on the ptb than a weaker basekit pop goes the weasel, which we already know will be mostly useless on half the killer roster.
Comments
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I think the only thing they might need to add at this point is a gigantic neon, flashing sign that says "leave the damn hook and go pressure survivors who are doing gens".
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Pop is better at forcing Killers to move, and making it worth it for them to do so.
PR automatically damages a gen, which is convenient, but it doesn't really encourage the Killer to leave the area. It doesn't give you anything else to do.
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Pain res still gives you info since survivors scream and even then it's not necesarry since killers will also get the basekit bbq and chili like ability so killer will already be encouraged to leave.
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(This is meant to be a reply to @AmpersandUnderscore but I forgot to press quote before replying)
I know you're being sarcastic so I'm probably wasting my time, but killers will also get the basekit bbq and chili like ability so killer will already be encouraged to leave.
Secondly and more importantly some killers simply wouldn't be able to do anything meaningfull with a stronger gen kick. Gen kicing is already a waste of time in high mmr and low mobility killers literally can't use this ability well. Let's say they see 2 survivors to their left, but the gen with the most progress is on the right. What can low mobility killers do here? nothing. If they go to the gen to use their stronger kick the two survivors probably already got more progress on another gen. Even if they go to the survivors reperaing a gen and kick that gen it is still a huge time waster for low mobility killers, since the survivor will have a lot of distance on them now meaning they can't catch up fast enough and the chase will be much longer. Even worse, let's say the killers sees that none of the revealed survivors are working on gens, what should they do now? Go to the gen with the most progress slowly, thus giving up all pressure or chase the survivors and have another survivor complete that gen, thus making the gen kick useless.
Killers are also already encouraged to leave hooked survivors in the live game with the anticamp, so that point is already redundant. Camping literally means the killer will lose.
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I mean sure, but you don't have to leave to get regression.
With pop you do actually need to leave the hook to get value from it.
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Yeah, but what does that matter if there will already be different incentives to leave? Saying "pop encourages killers to leave so it should be basekit pop and not pain res" is redundant when there's already many other things encouraging killers to leave. The basekit weaker bbq and chili will already incentivize killers to leave so the gen kick buff doesn't have to do the same thing. And I keep repeating myself, but low tier killers won't able to get value out of it, that's the whole problem.
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Pop is good on high mobility killers but for trapper,ghostface,bubba pain res is much better even pop is stronger because they lack the luxury to get fast to the gen across the map something survivor or high mobility killer main wont have clue about.
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Obviously.
You also get Haste and free BBQ
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Yes, they are adding more incentives to leave the hook.
It's doesn't change the fact that killers have spent 9 years finding every excuse to watch someone hang on hook.
You mention that "gens aren't worth kicking" and I agree. Generally, the time it takes to kick isn't worth getting into chase that much faster.
But that's a less than 3 second animation plus some time out of your way even if you're already there. Yet, strangely, people have no issues rationalizing camping a hook for up to 70 seconds and consider that "not time wasted".
So I think, for those people specifically, they absolutely need everything they can get to encourage them to leave the hook. And having it be automatic instead of manual is exactly the wrong direction to make that happen.
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Yes, they will?
You are acting like Pop wasn't meta when it was 25% total progress. Low tier Killers could still get huge value from it.
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True, but I don't think trapper can really make that work, nor huntress or death slinger. If they make it like grim embrace, that almost might work. Plus, the generator might be 5 feet away from the hook, or on the other side of the map, so Pop doesn't always work for that incentive.
A better way might be that after a unique hook, and after a 10 second delay, if the killer is at least 16 meters away from the hooked survivor, all gens suffer a passive 5% slowdown for 20 seconds, as long as you are at least 16 meters away. Kind of like grim embrace but without forcing people off gens. I think this would be better because high mobility killers can't get way more advantage from the pop effect compared to a low mobility killer.-1 -
We dont know the haste numbers if its 5-10% then it wont help low mobility killers maybe someone like dreadge or sadako and bbq we dont know if its same as the perk in terms what will be the distance of reveal and how many survivors it will reveal. Same for the bunus regression number if it will be half of the pop thats the mystery but I see you dont play weaker killers much because if you would then you wouldnt question why pain res is better and more used on them then pop not to mention it has more genslowdown synergies than pop like dead mans swithc or grim embrace.
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Yeah, that could be a compromise.
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It will absolutely help those Killers. If 3% MFT was gamebreaking, we can't say that 5-10% isn't good.
Keep in mind that my stats do not match up with my Xbox profile. I also have multiple accounts and this one is just the oldest, meaning a lot of my playtime was pre-2020.
I play weaker Killers consistently.
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I'd prefer Pop
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Lets see how things will play out after the PTB but i wish they buff regression as a whole when you are alternating hooks instead of only a gen kick buff.
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The mft was better for survivor for few reasons unlimited use when injured with no objective to get it and smaller hitbox which helps on loops hugging them for shorter trail making them last longer and greed easier. The killer speed boost wont last that long I gues and from killers you posted that you play only dreadge maybe wraith will get some use of them in chase if we wont count chasing someone near hook right after hooking, 5-10% speed on someone like ghostface,doctor,trapper wont make that big difference in mobility helping the killer to get across the map for next survivor. The weaker killers you play are dreadge (still has solid mobility), wraith (has solid mob)lity) and doctor, ghostface.
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I'm glad you approve of my Killer selection.
It will absolutely make a difference on Doctor and Ghostface. 5-10% Haste is the difference between a hit or eating a pallet stun.
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The regression does need to be automatic instead of a kick since kicks are way better on high mobility/already strong killers and weak on low mobility/already weak killers. The opposite of what we want to see. The haste is also great on some killers and bad on others. A lot of inconsistencies with how good these will be between killers.
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But the anti camp si already there and they get free basekit weaker bbq and chili? So nerfing all low tier killers and only giving them a weaker pop with al these changes is just not fair in my opinion.
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Well. As far as waiting for the ptb goes, we dont know the value of the pop, nor do we know of its even going to have a time limmit, or hell they might even make it an accumulating percentage of damage per non tunneled hook. And pain res might blow up a gen easier but your going to lose all that regression by the time you reach that far generator and be left with a wimpy kick. While you start chasing them off the gen. You are also alredy going to get basekit barbeque to see which gen to go for, and some speed to get there and scare them off it faster. Meanwhile you can still bring pop and painres ontop of all this unless they are getting changed too.
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5-10% won't significantly help weaker killers maintain map pressure. 3%-10% is a big deal in chase, not in map traversal, and this is seen in Clown, who has had a 10% Haste increase with his yellows for years, and yet the way you beat him consistently is on the macro game.
If it was say 15-20% Haste while not in chase (5.29-5.52m/s), maybe that's getting there, that's starting to get something akin to Wraith's pressure (who is a killer who himself often resorts to tunneling)... that would be the only way to bring slower killers up to par.
I of course would hate this, as it dumbs down all macro decisions even more, and leans the game even more into dash slop, where every killer is a fast moving with no need to think about macro and trial state, just chase the lights like Blight does with Lethal and BBQ... same as Windows of Opportunity for Survivor... switch brain off and follow the colours.
The basekit BBQ makes everything dumber, characters that would consider long distance aura perks to maximise their potential like Artist, Freddy, Huntress just have it at base... guess we'll just see more slowdown in these killers builds.
But I guess this is the way this game was always gonna go really. Setup killers like Trapper and Hag, and whatever Skull Merchant will be turned into have even less purpose and place in the game, because by design you have to run far afield to chase new survivors in areas you haven't set up in... so what's the point of setting up anywhere?
Some of these changes could be really good... but on the whole, the game just looks more hand hold than ever to me, and I can easily see myself becoming bored on both sides.
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I personally think that basekit pop is better solution as in current meta killers ignore kicking gens at all, relying on blocking and non-kick perks like pain res, surge etc. It will make killer objective in defending gens more reasonable and some perks more popular. And with undeniable following base game changes in return.
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