http://dbd.game/killswitch
why are killer only players panicking
every time they've introduced something to "address survivor complaints" i remember them nerfing it to the point where it's completely ineffective. why do people think this will be any different?
Comments
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Same can be said about the "addressing killer complaints" regarding the fog vials, which are now nerfed into the ground.
Remember, the door swings both ways.-9 -
What is it that people are referring to when they say this, genuinely?
The anti 3 gen system wasn't, to my recollection, adjusted at all from PTB to live. The survivor HUD update wasn't adjusted from PTB to live unless you count fixing a bug + was buffed later on down the line. Post-unhook Haste and Endurance wasn't nerfed from PTB to live + was buffed later on down the line.
Is it just that the anti facecamp system got tweaked? Is that what people are thinking of with this take?
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My stats are pretty close to 50/50 last I checked the official stats.
I still have my concerns with the changes. Not entirely, but there are some things people bring up that are legitimately concerning.3 -
what killer complaints were fog vials supposed to address
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I think that list would take me the rest of the day to write down, but the short of it was the outcry about them being seen as a cheap way for survivors to have another way of losing the killer in a chase.
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I'm expecting every single one of these measures to be nerfed into oblivion. There's no reason to feel otherwise, especially with all this doomsday crying. Fog vials were super mid but everyone still cried and now they've been destroyed. If survivors can't have something that mid, they can't have anything.
The killer buffs will go through though, which is cool for me as killer, but I want survivor buffs too.
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There's many issues with the new systems that are gonna negatively impact the game across the board.
- Certain killers will be borderline unplayable/useless such as Onryo, Pig, Twins, etc.
- You have numerous lose-lose-lose situations that affect all killers(the ones listed above even more so and, yes, that's right it's not just a 2-way issue, it's a 3-way issue) where if a survivor is unhooked then they have no concerns at all and can just instantly hop onto a gen without even healing because A) if the killer hooks them again then they can get punished for it, B) if the killer slugs them then the Slugging Prevention System(it's not a reduction-focused system, it's a prevention-focused system), C) if the killer ignores them then they lose the generator when they only have 5 gens to defend meaning after 5 downs they're essentially guaranteed to lose the match anyways.
- These systems are direct buffs to SWFs(specifically bully squad SWFs) as they get a bunch of strong perks built into their bully builds now without the need to sacrifice perk slots.
- Not only are BHVR withholding crucial match info from the killer, but now they're making it so that the killer's own UI is actively lying to them while the survivor's UI is giving them almost every single bit of info in the match with 100% accuracy.
- These systems aren't just targeting malicious players and are gonna be targeting normal players by punishing them for just simply doing their objective because 6 total hook states are either A) 2 survivors with 2 hooks each + 2 survivors with 1 hook each or B) 3 survivors with 3 hooks each and if a killer has gotten to that point and a survivor dies after even just 3 total hook states then it's a normal player using killer because tunneling is when you actively ignore everybody else in the match just to keep going after the same person over and over again hence the name "tunneling" because you're tunnel visioned on that one person.
There are so many more issues with these systems, but just these alone are enough to show why this needs to be scrapped and go back to the drawing board like they did with the Finisher Mori and Twins Rework PTBs.
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Pretty much nailed it, thank you for typing it out, I'm tired of doing the same lol.
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Gosh, I thought sometimes you needed to slug to win. Was that wrong this whole time?
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Would you like to tell me how many full-power perks Killer gets to alleviate the meta and "unfun" survivor playstyles
What 'unfun' playstyles are you referring to?
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I agree that they should make tweaks to how these changes interact with Twins, but the devs have clarified that these changes will only come into effect on deaths from hooking the same survivor multiple times in a row, so Pig's RBT kills and Onryo's condemn should not be affected (and if they are, it should be considered a bug)
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Like, it's not even rocket science to figure out that this is a horrible idea. Any person who plays both sides with an ounce of common sense will know that these changes are gonna be as miserable to deal with as the Finisher Mori and Twins rework PTBs were.
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Survivors doing gens too fast, obviously. How fast is too fast? Ah, as long as I'm getting at least 2 hooks per gen completed it's fine.
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They are gonna be affected as one of the punishments for the new systems is if any survivor dies BEFORE 6 total hook states meaning if a survivor dies to Onryo's or Pig's before 6 hooks then they get punished. An Onryo main has even made an example of how badly these changes will affect Onryo as shown below. (If you want a more detailed explanation for this then you can go to JCGlitchmaster's video and go to the time stamp in the screenshot.)
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No one had a problem with the anti 3 gen system, it almost never comes into play anyway.
Basekit anti tunnel only hurt people who insta tagged off hook, it didn't affect fair players at all.
Anti camp needs a buff, and a pretty substantial one. The meter grows far too slowly and doesn't recognize when the killer is still camping a narrow entry to the side of the map where the hooked survivor is (like on Coal Tower's hill hooks or Azarov's Resting Place's or Suffo Pit's weird narrow mid map.)
These new anti tunnel adjustments sound very unfair and super punishing, even if you try to make an effort to spread hooks. Imo and some others have already suggested it, the total hooks required before killing a survivor should be reduced to 4 stages, and the Consecutive hooking to sacrifice/kill the same survivor should be linked to this stage requirement rather than just being if you tunnel someone out, you lose all your gen defense. This way your not punished for having someone die early if you at least tried to go for someone else.
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I mean. It's only one perk for survivors right now, right?
Not counting this dev update, survivors got Borrowed Time made basekit. I can't think of any others off the top of my head? There were other basekit additions, but stuff like the survivor HUD or the anti face camp or the anti 3-gen aren't basekit perks even if some effects are somewhat similar.
With this dev update, that does climb to two, with Tenacity, but that's still not that many.
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Let me repeat myself: Ryan clarified that the "dies before 6 hooks" thing only applies to deaths from re-hooking the most recent hook. The video that Onryo main made is fundamentally incorrect because the Onryo main made the same mistake you did: not reading Ryan's post and not knowing that the "dies before 6 hooks" thing does not apply to killer power kills.
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I mean, I don't necessarily agree with your conclusion there but I'm not making a comment about the new system here. I'm talking about people who say "every survivor complaint response gets nerfed into oblivion immediately because of complaining", which is a statement I think is just flat out false.
I was asking the question legitimately, too, not rhetorically. I wanted to know if people were thinking of other changes I'm not thinking of myself when they say this.
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you are actually reinforcing my point, which is that things added to benefit survivors end up getting nerfed to become useless. when i said "to address survivor complaints" i meant the thing was added for the benefit of survivors. not that the thing was changed because of survivor complaints.
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I have an example of this being true, that being Ghoul's kidnap tech. This is actually preventable and better if you just let him bite you rather than running away from the vault. All you need to do is hug the vaultable prop and the killer's only option is to take the bite and you get more distance, or cancel power and vault the window, or just cancel power (some people play for no enraged with broken chain.)
Not to say kidnap teching wasn't broken, its just avoidable when you're injured and theres a better option to outplay it since you're getting injured regardless.
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No, OP is talking about things that are added to fix general complaints.
IE, stuff like this new system- it's there to resolve a survivor complaint. They're saying that every time that happens, killers complain, and BHVR nerf the thing in question to oblivion. I do not think this is true, personally, that's what my comments are about.
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With how lazy BHVR have been as of late there's no way we can even trust that
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Oh.
So all this handwringing was down to a miscommunication, then?
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By full power, do you mean handholdy? Hubris is pretty handholdy. Can't manage to not get stunned? Here's an easy down! How about Friends to the End? Now you can easily find someone AND get an easy down. How about Two Can Play? Flashlights too scary and Lightborn not good enough? No problem! Touching gens too hard? Here's Surge! Can't even guess where the spawn is? Lethal Pursuer has your back. How about end game perks? Sucked the whole match? Here let's just block the gates.
Killers have plenty of good perks but I run boring stuff like Iron Grasp and Awakened Awareness. I'm just trying to get people to the hook. You don't need the handholds to win. Same as surv—non-meta builds. My KR is 60%, my ER is 40%. I'm exactly where the devs want me to be. Maybe you just want to much.
And what perks do you even mean? Unbreakable and OTR? I don't tunnel or slug so I dont even notice them. DH? Okay, chase them some more. DS? Chase some more. Exhaustion perks are limited and you get bloodlust. Vigil is probably the only perk I want nerfed for survs. Survivors are only formidable in a party that's skilled, and even that's not a guaranteed win because the killer can just slug everyone even if they got zero hooks until end game. Killers also have built-in elements like bloodlust and powers. They'll now have extra gen regress, mini BBQ, and haste. Survivors have pretty much nothing built-in, it's just perks and items. Being able to stand up after a super long time (likely just to get slugged again) and to be hard to find for a brief period is not as OP as y'all are acting.
And why is unfun in quotes? Would you like to lay on the ground for four minutes until you die? Or finish the match in 2 minutes with 5k BP? Is that fun to anyone? There's no equivalent stripping of agency by survivors toward killers. You have a chance as killer until survivors are out the door. Many situations leave survivors powerless or hopeless unless they bring entire builds devoted to countering scuzzy tactics. Take your own advice and play survivor and you'll see how fun it is to be killed 10 times in a row by killers who were significantly less skilled than you.
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honestly… I think there's something to be said about having to search for posts in a forum for clarification…
idk if editing the official post about the changes is the solution, but people should not need to scavenge for stuff which might not be there.
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Oh, yeah you're right, its not true. This system does sound really bad and unbalanced. It doesn't need to be nerfed to oblivion like Fog Vials, but it definitely needs number changes.
On a side note, Fog Vials need maybe one or two more charges, and their opacity and sfx nerfs to be reverted, then I think they're perfectly balanced.
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yeah it will get nerfed into uselessness i'm pretty sure, maybe even fully cancelled, you can see on reddit/twitter or even here people really want to protect tunneling at all costs, it's just an easy way to get free wins atm
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I'll say that I agree with you and I can't think of this occurring enough to be a "major complaint".
But the only actual examples I can come up with feel like a stretch:
Reassurance would've been better overall anti camp on the PTB version, but was changed/nerfed going to live.
AFK crows was a solution to both a survivor complaint and a "survivor" complaint, and were nerfed after live (arguably, a deserved nerf, but still a nerf)
Or individual killer balance. This one is situational, and highly depends on your personal perspective (or personal bias). Like, for example, skull merchant. Definitely complained about (by basically everyone) and definitely nerfed, even though I personally disagree with how it was handled in the last iteration, as do most people. Even if I also agree that something needed to be done.
Again, I feel like this is kinda stretching into areas that aren't actually "base kit mechanics" also. So I'm not sure what they're talking about either.
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Yeah, although I wanna be fair to the people who were worried about that potential problem - it wasn't clear in the patch notes and they shouldn't be expected to have read every dev post, so it's an understandable misunderstanding. Just, I'd not like to have to explain the misunderstanding to the same person multiple times 😑
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My immediate assumption was nerfed but I'm starting to feel canceled is possible. Too many people are screaming into their pillows over this.
I'm hoping it gets through the ptb with everyone realizing it's not that big of a deal.
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It's always the same DbD should be great but with this community… nobody cares about making the game fun they want to keep the strongest things for themselves, and nerf other side
devs should have nerfed toolboxes and gen perks in the same patch, deal with tunneling, slugging and genrush make both sides happy, ignore the whining and push everything to live, game will be better in the long run
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The game having such a divided structure is the problem. I almost wish you had to play a certain amount of each role, back and forth. Like one locks if you play it too much for too long. But instead of an unbiased and nuanced experience it would be sandbag city. This us vs them stuff is so unbearable though, and the emotions are absurdly high.
I'd rather them just increase gen times or something. If you want to devote your build to gens, cool, but most people don't. Chase and second chance builds will still reign supreme.
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Because Killers always want Survivors to adapt, but dont want to adapt themselves. And I mean actually adapt and not only switch nerfed Slowdown-Perk A for unnerfed Slowdown-Perk B.
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Survivors adapt? To what? They've used the same meta perks for like 9 years.
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This has nothing to do with my post, so why do you quote me? I said that Killers want Survivors to adapt, but dont want to adapt themselves. This has nothing to do with Survivors actually adapting or not.
But yes, Survivors usually adapt, since we are not talking about Perks here (which I have also written, so I wrote two sentences and you misunderstood both..), since Survivors got way more Basekit-Changes over the years and complaints usually go down much quicker compared to Killer Basekit-Changes.
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In my opinion rotating queues are vital to asymms. But most players aren't willing to do that.
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well as a person who did that all that did was make me hate my fellow survivors more since reading a hud is apparently too difficult and is the actual problem with solo
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Maybe it's just me but I rarely get too upset at my teammates unless they're very obviously being intentional with their decisions. I assume most of the time they're new to the game (which remember, even 500 hours can be considered new with all there is to learn) or they're on auto-pilot.
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Are… are you saying that killers have gotten more basekit buffs than survivors? Where have you been the last three years lol.
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Where have you been the last 9 years? Yes, the Killer experience only got better over the years. 2025 was better than 2024. 2024 was better than 2023. And so on.
If you claim something else you are delusional.
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Where have I been? In the real world.
In the last couple years alone, survivors have gotten the activity HUD (which has been buffed twice), the removal of hook grabs, gen regression limits, anti-face camp, visual TR, 70 second hook timers, toolbox buffs, mangled nerfs, and now basekit INFINITE Unbreakable and anti-tunnel.
Meanwhile, in that same time period, killers got broken hook respawns, an extra 5% on gen kicks, and survivors can't tap gens anymore. Oh, and a nerf to self healing with medkits (followed by a slew of buffs to survivor healing perks lol). I would say that the survivor spawn logic was a buff, but I'm not quite sure that's the case. It usually means you lose a gen 30 seconds into the match if you're not playing a high mobility killer using Lethal.
I think survivors are doing just fine.
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There is way more than you list here for Killers. I dont know why you even mention the Mangled Nerfs, when Mangled was buffed in the first place. Same with Hemorrhage, it used to do basically nothing and is now a fairly strong Status effect.
That you mention the Regression Limits, something which almost never happens in regular gameplay and downplay the increase in Kicks and even the removal of Gentapping is crazy. Killers won on this one, clearly.
So yeah, sorry, but Killer only got better over the years and nothing you try will change that, since it is a complete fact. Who plays for a few years and thinks that Killer is now worse than before is doing something seriously wrong.
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i wouldn't be pissed if the hud didn't give you all the information that isn't specific location of survivors and on top of all the base hand holding stuff that's not even this upcoming patch
if people want to drool on themselves or are new they honestly shouldn't have a say at all when it comes to balance but the devs are actively destroying a role to auto carry noobs
yea i quit
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Mangled was buffed five years ago lol. You're bringing up half a decade old buffs as "evidence that killers get buffs all the time!!!!!!1111!!"
And Regression Limits killed Surge and heavily nerfed Eruption. You can't use the two perks together, since the two perks activating once each is 3 regression events for a grand total of 22%, only 7% more than kicking it 3 times. Regression limits absolutely affect which builds I use on most killers.
And whining about losing the ability to stop regression by touching a gen is really showing your bias. The fact that it was ever a thing was a massive oversight by the devs. "The killer has to spend 3 seconds making it regress, but survivors only have to spend a tenth of a second undoing it." And the increase in kick percentage was literally 2.5%. That's literally 2.25 seconds of extra progress a survivor has to do. I'd rather be able to make it regress infinitely than waste 3 seconds to get an extra 2.25 seconds from a survivor.
Killer was at its strongest during the Overbrine Eruption meta. It is absolutely much weaker than it was 2 years ago lol.
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Not all survivors know how to counter certain killers and how their hitboxes work, smart survivor when they were injured did this because its beneficial ghoul will mostly have enraged mode if you are injured in chase and this will lock him in animation behind vault and gives you sprintburst and potencionaly unlocks your made for this, only downback is if you have dead hard or otr then you dont want to give him hit other problem was kidnap was broken and he could apply it from larger distance.
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that's not taking into the fact that base regression is 1/4 a survivors progress also mangled and hemorrhage was rendered useless when they added a timer
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Ok, last post to you since I can rather watch paint dry and spent my time more fruitful than discussing here.
First point - now you want to see a time limit? I always said that the game got better over time and this is a fact. If you want to narrow it down, why not do it to just one patch to prove your point? Not really valuable or anything, but it would bring a foundation to your "argument". So yes, Killers got buffed, from 2016 to 2025 they received Buffs over Buffs over Buff. And before you try to twist my words around again - I never said it is a bad thing, since Survivors were stupid overpowered. My statement was just neutral that Killer got better over time.
I dont think that the Regression Limit killed Surge and Eruption. Funnily enough Surge was the most used Killer Perk I faced the past week and I was seriously thinking it is bugged or something, since I have never seen that many Killers run Surge. But the fact is, I see both Perks being used (and use both myself on some Killers, obviously not together). If you cannot use them both together - who cares? Seriously, you have quite a few options to run and IMO a combination of Surge and Eruption is just bad, since you make all Gens regress with Surge in the area you downed the Survivor and then hinder yourself from applying Eruption on them.
That you say that I am whining about the removal of Gentapping is outrageous and also twisting my words. I never said it is a bad change, it is a good change that it happened, Gentapping was stupid. But Killers clearly won with that one, you almost never reach 8 Regression Limits on a Gen, but you will always have value from the 2,5% extra regression and from Survivors having to repair 5% before the Gen stops regressing. That you water down the removal of Gentapping and make it seem like Killers lost their ability to infinitely kick Gens for only 2,5% of extra regression is also quite an "interesting" way to argue - hiding half of the Buff (and quite a significant buff) does not really strengthen your argument, it is basically lying.
And I would even disagree with the last part - because back then Killer was only stronger than now if you were running that one specific Build - which not everyone did, because some players actually wanted a Challenge. Back then you could have run Eruption/CoB/Overcharge and win with ease, but not everyone wanted to do that. Nowadays Killer is completely fine and very good without having to run one specific overpowered Build, which I would say makes Killer stronger than back then.
Now, as I said, I wont argue with you anymore. I can spend my night better than just keep telling you that you are wrong and getting my words twisted around because you have no argument at all.
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Your reading comprehension needs a lot of work. First of all, you said that 2025 was better than 2024, which was better than 2023. That's simply not true. Is 2025 better than 2019? Sure. But I think going back to patches in the 4.xx's is kind of irrelevant to today's game.
Also, I said that you can't use Surge and Eruption together, not that either perk was dead on its own.
I didn't hide anything. I brought up both gen tapping and the extra 2.5%. I just think that both are pretty irrelevant, especially when compared to survivor buffs. I'm sorry, I don't think that making survivors repair a gen for 5 seconds before it stops regressing is equal to the Survivor HUD or removing hook grabs.
And killers absolutely have to run multiple regression perks… which you yourself attested in your OP.
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😵
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imo it is more like beating the living snot out of someone with a baseball bat, and then when understandably cry out in pain you say "oh you gonna cry like a little baby? why don't you grow up you pathetic little kid." that's the level of power imbalance you're defending i think
Post edited by BoxGhost on5
