http://dbd.game/killswitch
so what do i do
if a survivor unhooks in my face as trapper, i chase the unhooker, they use lithe and get distance. the person who just got unhooked steps in a trap nearby. So im gonna get punished for using the trappers power to go and pick them up and hook them?
or if im sadako and a survivor ignores all tapes and gets condemned before 6 hooks, do i just ignore the condem???
Comments
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You gonna get punished for playing as Trapper in the first place.
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damn, you right
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You can hook 'em, if it doesn't kill them. There's no penalty.
If it does, you can just slug 'em and move on. Or eat the gen-block if you think it's worth it. You have plenty of options.
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but you see how stupid these changes are, punishing killers for the survivors mistake.
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But it's not punishing you though? You have plenty of options.
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that survivor could have been dead and its a 3v1, but now they get up and its another person on a gen… yes thats punishing
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Genuinely, if it takes you more than 90 seconds to close out another chase, which is the way around "turning off regression", then the problem has nothing to do with the game, but the killer player.
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you dont understand. i shouldnt have to ignore someone in a trap as trapper or someone condemned
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I didn't realize when they added 10 seconds to gens they were punishing survivors. I just thought it was a nerf.
Survivors should be really mad they are getting punished every time the killer gets a unique hook.
-4 -
You don't have to! If you really want to, you can just hook him! It's just not the -only- option anymore!
-16 -
No you see, Survivors can make mistakes and win. As a Killer, you either learn Blight, or get tbagged.
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You don't have to? Just kill them and eat the penalty.. in your situation you either are tunneling the person specifically. Ir perhaps 1 or more survivor players are really bad at the game which case reducing the survivors team by 25% preps you into a good position to finish the other three off.
If I'm gonna be honest the "penalty" isn't really severe enough to really persuade people from not tunneling. An example, a lot of killers don't kick gens or could just not run slow down and instead use chase perks and still win handedly.
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All these imaginary scenarios have been wild. Can we just test the changes first? You don't even know which parts will go live.
-5 -
imaginary? this is normal trapper gameplay.
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Yep, you will absolutely be punished if that survivor is on death hook. You have to ignore that survivor who just got trapped and can’t touch them again unless you want to disable all gen regression and also if there are less than 6 total hooks give the rest of the survivors a repair bonus for the rest of the game. Pretty awesome and fair!
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So its not punishing weakest killer because he can leave him so his teammates or he can pick himself up thats free escape with small slowdown.
Tell me will the survivors keep it fair and after 30 seconds chase they will give him free down?
I dont think so he will get punished hard and theres nothing he can do about it this is reason why all of these changes cant go live if we dont want to see dead by nurselight.
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Isn't Trapper on the road map for a potential rework some time down the line? I'm pretty sure BHVR are at least aware that his kit is pretty outdated at this point.
To be honest, Trapper is the only Killer I'll relax my rules when it comes to popping a freshly unhooked Survivor back on the hook. If they step in one of my traps they are fair game to me (and if I can kill them with the next hook, then even better). So I'd be inclined to just eat whatever penalty the system wants to give me, because you've got to take what you can get when playing as Trapper. Just getting a 1K can feel like an achievement in some trials.
I'm a relatively casual Killer that doesn't bother to count hooks, so I'm likely to fall foul of this system at least occasionally. But until we know what the numbers are, we don't know how impactful much of all of this is going to be.
Will the compensatory Survivor buffs be enough to offset losing 25% efficiency in repairing/unhooking/wasting the Killer's time/healing/opening gates for the rest of the trial? Somehow I doubt they will be and so tunnelling will remain somewhat effective. But at the very least, tunnelling as an intentional strategy will soon come with some potentially significant downsides and I think that's a good direction for the game.
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In all situations, you are still advantaged as the killer. Either you pull another survivor off gen, or they spend an age-and-a-half on the floor, or you hook 'em for a kill. You are coming out of this ahead.
You just don't have the option to -instantly- win the game with no questions asked.
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For your trapper scenario, I would either slug the freshly unhooked person who stepped in a trap and move on, commit to the lithe user regardless of the distance they made, or go pressure somewhere else. It depends on whose positions I know and what mood I'm in. If it's later in the match I might just re-hook them anyway - I don't care if they get increased gen speed or locked regression on 1 remaining gen.
For Sadako I would hook to lock in condemned stacks. I would wait until I have 6 hooks before I start killing people. I would make sure the first person I condemn isn't the last person I hooked. It's how I usually play her anyway right now except I usually go off gens completed instead of hook count to determine if I'm being too sweaty and should dial it back.
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One potential scenario for one specific killer.
Slug them and walk away. They're on the ground for 90 seconds doing nothing unless someone comes for them. If you're chasing the other person, they're also not doing gens. If a third comes for the slug, also not doing gens.
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Survivors can make mistakes and win
Not when I play killer, but you do you
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Not always and deffinitly not as trapper who starts the game by loosing like few other weakest killers do but you would know that if you played him against competant teams. Spend age on ground we dont know if they have perks its not age and now they can move while recover which wasnt thing before and they can pick themself up after 90 seconds if they dont have any perks but in that time teammate will rotate for pick up and if the bar fills then you will pick your self up way before 90 seconds just when your recover bar fills up and this could be abused with plotwist so not easy to judge but in any case trapper has not advantage against survivors I surprised there are people who still think trapper isnt one of weakest killers in the game.
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That trapper rework (after 8 years) will come in like 6 months or year so it will be long time.
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one normal scenario for one killer. and therefore who cares? is that the logic here?
also, not 90 seconds. it's death hook. they have been down for whatever amount of time by now.
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So let's do some math!
You have a gurenteed kill in your scenario. 1/4 down yay
It's now 1v3 and once you start a chase only 2 survivors can be doing gens and that drops to 2 once you get the hook.
So then just tunnel the next person out at all cost? You surely should be able to secure the second kill before the gates are open with a tiny window to get the third.
Meaning your kill rate will flop between 50% and 75% which averages to near 60 the goal of behavior anti tunneling and slugging system to make kill rates on all killers hover around 60%
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Different killers will have different scenarios and how to deal with them, yes. For example, if someone gets unhooked at end game and rushes for the door, a low-mobility killer will probably lose them. But if your fast, you can hurtle yourself in front of them and block them until endurance is gone. Different killers, different scenarios.
It's 90 seconds if you haven't slugged them yet. It's 32 if you have. Either way, it's a good chunk of wasted time.
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that is quite the tangent there… next you'll tell me maps are different from each other…
unless you tell me that it's fine for a system in the game to punish one killer more than any other, can you just accept you don't have a point here?
it's not about killers being better or worse at one thing or another.
it's 90 second TOTAL. it does not restart if you pick them up after 30 seconds.
-1 -
The unhooked survivor doesn't have collision. They can't get caught in your trap.
I'm also 99.9% sure that you won't be punished for a condemned kill or other mori-related deaths like Devour.
They think these things through.
-2 -
Ironically these changes will cause a lot more slugging "oh I can't kill you even though you stepped in my trap guess I gotta slug" guess that's why they added the self pickup cause there's gonna be a lot more rampant slugging
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I think instakill characters like Sadako are just gonna have to be exempt from these Rules cause if your getting condemned early game that's kinda on you
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Oh thats rich… Let's handicap you as killer by imposing rules you have to keep track of or be punished and limiting your agency as killer but then turn around and tell you that "yOU hAVe plentY oF oPtionS". lol
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The same you can already do when you want to play around DS - slug. It is not that hard, it will take them 90 seconds to get up and if someone else has to do it, it is Map Pressure for you.
-11 -
Would you be ok with bhvr reverting this if there was enough outcry? if not why?
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Why do you ask me this? Does this have anything to do with the topic?
-2 -
Well your clearly in favor of this patch. The poster made this thread because of the relevance the patch has to do with the future of the game going forward. Yes, it has everything to do with the "topic".
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OP created some scenario to have an argument. But IMO every scenario which involves "When I play Trapper…" is a bad scenario, since Trapper is the weakest Killer in the game and you can use this "argument" on anything, lol.
But nah, I dont care too much if they revert anything. I mean, they will do it anyway, most likely they scrap everything except for the incentives to discourage tunneling the Killers get, because the Devs have not the best track record when it comes to improving the Survivor experience. And to be honest, this Patch would actually give some Basekit-changes and not just bandaids as usual.
But my point to OP was more that there is a solution to their fabricated scenario, you dont have to pick the Survivor up to hook them, you can just slug them and still have Map Pressure.
-2 -
These mechanics don't block you from tunneling if you still wish to do so. They make it less efficient so that it is no longer the optimal tactic in most situations. Your agency is not limited.
This isn't like blocking a vault the survivor has jumped too many times in a chase. You can still do whatever you want - it just doesn't help you win in as many scenarios as before and can now be detrimental. That's the point.
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Your agency is very much hindered. If survivors make really bad misplays like being to altruistic and I capitalize on that i'm left with bad options that weren't there before said patch.
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you need to talk with the survivors lawyer and ask for an signed agreement in order to oick them up. In fact you should go up to your trap and open it up for that survivor so they don't feel bad about the mistake of stepping on it . Really tough they can sabo in your face and do gens and if you date hook a death hook survivor you made the wrong play aparently.
-1 -
There's been enough outcry without anyone actually testing this, and we didn't even have the full details like numbers yet.
So even if this patch provides 1% gen repair speed and 99% base kit pop, people are still opposed to it.
The amount of crying, panicking, and manipulation in seeing on these forums tells me exactly one thing: just the idea of being able to lose regression is a huge motivator for the small part of the community that actually tries on hard tunneling.
If people are this freaked out over the idea that regression might turn off, then there's actually a chance this mechanic will mitigate hard tunneling at the start of the match.
And since that's exactly what the mechanic is supposed to be doing, then, impressively, BHVR has actually come up with a solution that incentivizes hooks, punishes tunneling (and only tunneling), and is designed to not be abusable from the start.
And people who can't adapt literally can't handle that. Apparently.
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Just because something's nerfed doesn't inherently mean it's a bad option.
-1 -
Can you imagine being a new player trying to learn these rules on Trapper?
You chase whoever you see, hook a death hook survivor who steps in your trap, and then wonder why you can't kick gens any more.... you logicallyvreport a bug in the forums to say you can't kick gens anymore, and the collective turns round and says "yeah, that's intended... you as the killer, killed someone too fast".
You then learn you also gave Survivors a repair speed bonus too... when they ask why, the response is "because it isn't fun to be killed as a Survivor".
Wild ride on that players emotional roller coaster I'm sure.
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New player don't tunnel. They don't traditionally slug either those concepts only start popping up after some outside influence or the killer starts getting a MMR hurdle and starts thinking of ways to get an edge.
Baby killers have almost no problems winning games consistently since they are vs baby survivors. The problem is this tunneling change is only going to effect mid to high MMR it's actually just going to be buffs for new killers as the haste and BbQ and chili will help them with the biggest problems new killers have finding people to chase. As low MMR players don't stick to gens and hide much more often.
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I didn't say they tunneled. I said the rules are confusing. These changes affect you based on who you last hooked and when a player died, whether you tunneled or not.
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First of all, there's a literal UI element that will show you the last hooked survivor. So unless you're also uninquisitive as to what that means or why it exists then you'll understand that there's at least something concerning that survivor.
Second, you could say that about literally anything in the game. This is just complaining about the learning curve of the game and basic game knowledge.
Windows blocking, bloodlust, even anti gen tapping also fit this exact description. And I never saw anyone, even the most biased players, complaining that "anti gen tap doesn't explain what is happening to new players, you have to figure this out on your own, OMG".
-1 -
This is precisely the kind of situation we really want to see players exploring, poking at, and testing on the PTB. There's a ton of nuance when it comes to tunneling and slugging, especially when you factor into each Killer's unique quirks like you mentioned with Trapper and Sadako.
I really want to stress the "Test" part of Public Test Build here. We want to hear what feels good for you based on your in-game experiences, and we want to hear about what's feeling off. Just because a feature hits the PTB in a given state, doesn't mean changes (i.e. value adjustments) can't be made before it hits Live - that's the big ol' intent behind the PTB.
While there's a lot to digest on paper, I'm really excited to hear what folks think in practice. Speaking personally as someone who loves playing Killer, I hear the concerns we've been seeing from Killer players, but also want to ask folks to give this a chance, as you may be surprised by how natural it feels (but again, we're here to collect and share your feedback!).
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wil we as killer get some form of notification visual change when these "deterents" are in effect? (for example the entity taking more control of the map and forcing the killers hand. Like it "hits" the killer with its tentacles(?) as another example)
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A single PTB is not going to be enough for this many changes all at once honestly, especially while many people will be in 2v8 and doing the rift rather than trying the PTB, it would have been better placed in a bit of dead time between things. It should go through several with adjustments before thinking of even hitting Live. The impact it will have on the game is too great to just push it out carelessly and neutering the game for alot of people really, really won't be a good look.
-2 -
Well, sometimes there is little to nothing you can do against the condemned play, if the killer knows what they are doing.
I have fallen victim to that strategy one too many times, because getting the tapes is impossible if the Sadako is only playing for condemned stacks.0 -
I don't wanna be rude, but I am frustrated with how people keep dismiss ingall the concerns around here as "stop tunneling, you're boosted, get over it". So if this comes off curt and dismissive I apologise in advance and it's not intentional... but....
- The UI element that tells you who you last hooked, but also lies to you about that survivors state and actively denies you information even if you aren't tunneling? It's just another thing for the killer to track, and it doesn't even have the courtesy of giving killer a visual readout of the hook stages on the Survivor, they just have to remember it, with the obvious issue that 2 or more identical cosmetic survivors can make this very difficult to remember.
- I thought we we're trying to make the game more accessible, not less. On top of the killer powers, add-ons, perks and basekit effects we already have, we want to cram in load more arbitrary restrictions? At least the anti-3gen mechanic has a slow visually and audibly building warning. Just because somethings are unintuitive doesn't make adding more a good thing.
- Windows blocking is unintuitive, but it's immediately apparent as a directvresult of an action youve taken, and only for that individual instance. It doesn't prevent chaining to another tile, which if you made a vault, you are probably more than capable of doing in most scenarios... it is also temporary, not a complete denial of a fundamental game mechanic and a permanent boost for the other side.
- Bloodlust is not immediately apparent, but it is also prevented by killers using their power, and by breaking pallets, which means most of the time you don't even notice it is even in the game against all but the most m1 of killers, and by the time it kicks in you've already gotten a long chase out of the killer. It is also immediately disabled when you get hit, to which another hit is still needed, and isn't in effect for the rest of the trial.
- When you say anti-gen tapping do you mean tapping generators for a second to stop them regressing? None of that is unclear at all... it's extremely clear from the interface and the generator itself as to what is going on... if anything it is more intuitive that the gen doesn't stop regressed immediately, because with the aim of somewhat reflecting reality, what kind of Jesus hand mechanic can tap a machine and start it functioning normally again.
Yes DBD has a steep learning curve. Not really an excuse to start adding heavy handed, arbitrary and contradictory rules that make it worse.
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