http://dbd.game/killswitch
A Question On Anti-Tunnel Rewards
How would we feel about ramping up rewards for continuing to hook unique Survivors?
For example if you hook 4 Survivors, with nobody being hooked twice in a row, you get an extra bonus.
Say, arbitrarily, that if you hook 6 Survivors and none of them are hooked twice in a row, you get like 20% Haste until a damage state and 40% percent off a gen plus Killer Instinct instead of aura reading on the lower hooked Survivor (unless you're an S-tier). This isn't going to stack with the normal hook bonus, but rather replace it for that 6th hook, in this example.
Haven't put a huge amount of thought into it. Just thought that people should be more rewarded the longer they stick with not tunneling.
Comments
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I would like that but I feel the rewards we got on the ptb were great with some tuning they would be excellent
The 15 second 10% haste on hooking unique survivors on non traversal killers was great
The Gen kick bonus was very nice. I would have personally made it where the Gen kick would be 10% TOTAL progress(because by default kicking is 5% progress loss so it would be in total 15% progress lost)
The base kit BBQ and chili was incredible cause it gives the killer a reason not to camp or tunnel and makes him leave the hook
As for other bonuses idk what I would add, I would probably make it so hooking all 4 survivors for the first time granted 10% haste for 45 seconds for non traversal killers while killers like Billy nurse only get 5% for 15-30 seconds
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Dunno if that's a good idea. It'd incentivise having a dedicated hider, wouldn't it?
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I just think having a bigger reward, or a stacking bonus of some kind, would help reinforce the idea of hooking unique Survivors while also helping lower tiers get a bigger boon from continously targeting new
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Like a mechanic bonus, or an extra BP bonus? Extra BP, totally, yes, why not? But I feel like there's already some mighty fine buffs being added if we're talking about gameplay bonuses.
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As long as you dont repeat a hook, it shouldn't matter right?
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Oh, right, I misunderstood it as hooking all survivors once.
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I also think small measurable bonuses for killer when facing a SWF. After all, swf is an advantage. Especially if they have comms. The killer has never gotten any compensation for that. Sure not all swf are sweat lords or evil groups of players trying to wreck the others fun. Most swf are just friends chilling and having fun.
They should not be punished for it. The killer should at least get something to even the odds a little. I have no idea what it could be, but I still think they should get something In compensation.
I would also feel the same if killers had some kind of big advantage over survivors that was from an outside source. Give the survivors something to compensate in that regards.
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This would be very unfair. I play in parties and am a total dingdong with a slightly below 40% ER. Being in a party doesn't make you good. Neither does being on comms. You said it yourself: chilling and having fun. The killer shouldn't be buffed solely for that. I've also gone against soloqers who did amazing together and sure didn't need any buffs.
It would probably be too hard to put together, but I've thought for awhile that certain perks should be disabled at different levels of MMR, since that's the only true test of skill. For example, no exhaustion perks or exposed perks for top tier. But like I said, that's probably too complicated.
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No.
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With the game in this state killers do not need any more buffs whatsoever.
-10 -
This is a proposed change to the PTB ideas anti-tunnel
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I actually liked those rewards, but something was missing in them to be satisfying
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It doesn't really matter what the rewards would be. It was made clear that hooking unique survivors ruins the game for killers.
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Even in the highest tier of play the considered "survivor sided level of MMR" SWF barely have a 50% escape rate. For all these free info they get it doesn't help much.
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If you add them with out tunneling penalities then why wouldn't they just tunnel with super bonuses? Can't find the dude your tunneling just hook person B for aura reading haste and what ever else you want to tack on
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there needs to be wayyy more buffs for weaker killers, like major buffs, for this whole system to work. weak killers tunnel against good teams because they need to do anything they can to pick up the scraps. removing that and asking them to spread hooks doesn't work because the killers around c/d/b tier are usually there because they're not good at downing survivors quickly. so even if you implement incentives to do that it doesn't matter because they can't do it to begin with.
also killers should pick up and hook survivors a little faster by default, clunkiness aside it is too easy to get pallet saves with the very slow pickup animation-3 -
Do you have an example this extra bonus?
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It would be nice to change the killer meta with new basekit abilities, yeah. It would also be nice for survivors to have something basekit so they don't have to bring perks to help them not get tunneled and slugged.
And so we've arrived at the same place we started.
Post edited by cogsturning on5 -
Say, arbitrarily, that if you hook 6 Survivors and none of them are hooked twice in a row, you get like 20% Haste until a damage state and forty percent off a gen plus Killer Inistinct instead of aura reading on the lower hooked Survivor (unless you're an S-tier)
Haven't put a huge amount of thought into it. Just thought that people should be more rewarded the longer they stick with not tunneling.
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Like as mentioned these buffs were on the table to STOP tunneling. The definitive best strategy a killer has to ensure a win. To add these buffs with out the anti tunnel system would one be hilarious because that's the W this community needs after this PTB. But also make no sense it's been mentioned multiple times that behavior sees killer over performing and they are looking at average kill rates of 60% for the most part every single killer in the game is hitting those numbers right now or higher. To do wide spread buffs would only tip the scales in the wrong direction
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This is pretty much the most frustrating part about this PTB. People simultaneously admit that tunneling is massively powerful, and yet they want killers to have pitifully small rewards for not tunneling.
Just no.
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You are not going to get a tunneling replacement. You are not going to get anything even remotely equivalent. This is because we are trying to fix a problem, not replace it with a new issue.
There is no equivalent to removing a player from the game, which it would seem is what you want.
Ten seconds of 20% Haste (reminder that 3% was gamebreaking), 40% off of a gen (reminder that is more than anything else ever) and uncounterable information isn't good enough and is a "pitiful" reward.
You know, I'm curious. What would you label as acceptable?
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Giving killers a pitiful reward isn't helpful. I'm going to say your reward idea should never happen.
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Cool cool, not much of an explanation but sure.
What would an acceptable reward be to you?
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I'm not going to bother. You already said you're automatically going to reject anything that I would suggest.
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genuinely curious. Id like to know where we stand.
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What do you suggest?
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Nothings gonna top straight up removing a survivor at 2 or 1 gens left. Atp you need less hands on gens to win, not more regression. They really just need to tweak the punishments so only extreme tunneling is punished for.
So make the stage requirement to avoid extra gen speed only 4, and make the second punishment linked to the stage requirement as well.
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I like this idea 💡
It feels right to be rewarded for moving about your hooks!
Like for example in your post instead of 4 seconds of aura read you get 6 and instead of 20% gen regression(pop) you get 80% cough cough I mean…30. 🤓
Oh and haste! 15 seconds of haste?-1 -
I personally feel like effects to discourage tunneling would be good, but I'm not so much a fan of flooding the game with a tonne of basekit effects on either side to achieve that goal.
Ideally there would be better tools Survivors could bring against tunneling that wasn't just perks... having anti tunnel methods expanded to give more Survivor options wpuld be good.
I had an idea of buffing Fog Vials to have more utility vs. tunneling. Which involved the following buffs:
- 1 or 2 more charges
- Being in the smoke hides loud noise notifications.
- Being in the smoke hides the survivors status on the HUD (reuse the PTB effect).
- These effects lingers for 4 seconds after leaving the smoke.
In conjunction with hiding scratch marks, this gives Survivors a tool to use that allows them to fast vault windows to get away, allows the use of lockers to hide (and Lucky Star/Iron Will), allows use of Babysitter or Borrowed Time, maybe even Duty of Care to help a unhook survivor get clear.
If we really want to get nuts, we could allow a hooked Survivor with a Fog Vial to use one on hook. Could come in clutch to bait the killer with Camaradarie or Reassurance.
For killers, the unique hook haste effect isn't gonna bridge the gap between M1 and M2 killers, since M2 killers get it too and something that disables on Primary power use coul be clunky… but that effect could be nice. A stronger/longer affect that only applies when in chase might also be good.
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Most players get downplayed the effectiveness of tunneling the whole time they play. Why would people assume taking it away would be just a big deal? Killers love to pretend on the forums they don't do it. Or it's a strategy that is seldomly used except for certain situations if killers were honest and just loudly exclaimed it's the best and more effective strategy and that any time you can make the day go down to 3v1 Early it is a good game.
Maybe devs and survivors would have thought more seriously on the trade off. But not the super unhealthy game play strategy is hidden from the light not talked about by killers and a lot of the time gas lighting survivors into blaming them on why it (rarely) happens to them.
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Depends what it would be
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Say, arbitrarily, that if you hook 6 Survivors and none of them are hooked twice in a row, you get like 20% Haste until a damage state and 40% percent off a gen plus Killer Instinct instead of aura reading on the lower hooked Survivor (unless you're an S-tier)
Haven't put a huge amount of thought into it. Just thought that people should be more rewarded the longer they stick with not tunneling.
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I feel like they were overnerfed when not considering the maps where they were silly on, like when working as intended they were fine, it was just certain maps.
Also re this threads topic, killer queue times are long and I feel with the appropriate changes to the hooks required or whatever it'd be fine to see how it sits with the general playerbase for further tweaks. We should not have listened to kneejerk reactions outside of the valid concerns and went from there.
that's my take on it at least. Coz we only get so much data from the fraction of steam players during a huge release such a silksong.2 -
I just want the general mood of 2v8 to come to 1v4, chaos with silly shenanigans and horror for people to enjoy casually.
I'm so tired of the competitive crowd sucking the fun out of the game.3 -
Getting rewarded for the longer you dont is good, how long will this last? Until the same survivor hooked twice or is it a one off thing? Because if its continuously applied some survivors will feel agitated,
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This would be like a milestone goal. After you hit this, it returns to normal rewards.
Or you could have a permanent bonus, if you like. Like 5% extra total progress on any damaging action towards a gen, so if you hit it with 20% total progress, it gets an extra 10% added on from the default kick bonus and this hook bonus. Or gens regress at 200% speed or something.
If we are really going to try to bash tunneling out, I am not opposed to giving a relatively large reward for not tunneling.
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Having it ramp up likethat, would make it more appealing to killers, which would prolong the mid game of 2 gens left..bthat would lighten some pressure on the killer.
I do like the idea so far.
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That would be good. One big problem with their rewards is that they rewarded some killers WAY more than others. I’d honestly scrap the haste and aura reading entirely since it helps strong killers the most that don’t need it and barely help the bad killers that do. Also, the base kit “pop” again, is great for already strong killers and mediocre for a lot of weaker ones.
We need stuff that works on everyone more equally. Just make it a global gen reduction or instead of pop base kit it’s a pain res base kit.
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That again would reward some killers way more then others. Any killers with higher mobility will be feeding more on that global pain res then say, trapper would. Or most no mobility killers. Or those who can quicker down, global pain res would also have to depend on the percentage.
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I mean, one of the most common complaints you hear is about not having any gen regression and not being able to find Survivors, despite the fact that stealth is dead.
Any reward you give is going to disproportionally improve high-tiers vs low-tiers. That's just kind of how it's gonna be. A Blight is going to get way more value from the anti-tunnel rewards than Ghostface, simply because he's Blight.
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I dislike the idea. Spreading hooks is only something that strong killers can do to gain early game pressure. The problem with the rewards as is, is that they are nerfed for killers that could actually utilise them and the killers that have the normal effect still can't use them. 10% haste for Myers is never gonna replace Ghoul's Kagune Leap. As long as you are downing survivors away from the gens that are being repaired you are never gonna get value out of that basekit pop.
If you increase these effects it starts to become unhealthy. For example lets say the haste was increased to 20% haste, and the killer sees a survivor shortly after a hook, perhaps this said survivor failed a save or is trying to rush out a gen. Now depending on the killer/perks survivor health state this survivor could get injured for basically free or instadowned entirely. Now there's a snowball problem and lets not make a need for anti-snowball…
In my opinion the game doesn't need to push killers to play for unique hooks, the game needs to give survivors tools to deal with it. This is what has been done for years with anti-tunnelling perks, the only problem is that they are perks that are possibly paywalled and feel like must haves.
Elusive on unhook is a great step. After that they should just update individual killers.0 -
Thats why im honestly of the opinion S tier killers shouldn't really even have gotten the reduced percentages. They dont really need the help
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If thats the case which i don't think it is then i don't think there should be any unique hook rewards if all it does is widen the gap between high tiers and low tiers. If the sole purpose is to discourage high tiers from tunneling then thats miserable in my opinion, we shouldn't want the game to continue being Ghoul By Daylight
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Not really. Unless 3 ppl are hiding, you could still avoid hooking ppl twice in a row.
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I mean while stealth isn’t necessarily great I wouldn’t say it’s dead or any worse than any other time in the games history. We could point to a few nerfs/buffs in information perks or prevention but not of it is that massive imo. I personally run pretty non meta stuff on survivor for the most part and it’s mostly “stealth” stuff. Albeit not for hiding but making jukes mid chase. I get good value and have a pretty high win rate with this stuff for being non meta and no exhaustion or second chance perks. Just making the point I don’t think stealth is as bad people say. I usually don’t hear people say their difficulty is in finding survivors.
Yes any reward is going effect Blight or S tier killers more but making them help killers perfectly equally isn’t my goal or point. The goal is that it can be better or closer than a Pop does, which is achievable. I think a pain res for example does help all killers much “more” equally than Pop does, even if it won’t be exactly equal ever. We don’t need perfect, just better.
-2 -
The killer main in me likes the idea of that.
However the survivor in me really don't like that idea. Cause even with a nerfed version of that for Stiers killers like 10% haste and 20% regression sounds miserable to play against or even like low tiers killers like clown I don't want a 35% haste clown coming after me.
I think unique bonuses shouldn't be a thing for Stiers Killers at all they don't need help it be more focused on mid to low tier killers
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Hard agree I think S-tier killers shouldn't get any unique bonuses it's should only be about helping weaker killers
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40% off a gen and 20% haste is pitiful? Imagine running a regression build in addition to those numbers. Gens would be impossible if the killer has good gamesense or runs gen info perks like Tinkerer. Killers who already don't tunnel (of which there are many) would have their KRs sky rocket with numbers like that.
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Then S-tiers like blight shouldn't get any unique bonuses he's already a strong killer we shouldn't make them even stronger
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