http://dbd.game/killswitch
Am I the only one who is tired of this?
Almost any major change to the game doesn’t make it past a PTB. Were those the right changes to fight tunning. No they weren’t and some of us knew right off the bat. However since they canceled them it’s been all over social media that the community saved DBD by complaining. When the reality those changes were never going to make it past a PTB and we all knew it. Now killers have just been given a green light to tunnel and it’s just got even worse.
Comments
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However since they canceled them it’s been all over social media that the community saved DBD by complaining.
Yeah, it's super embarrassing. A lot of people with no foresight are happy.
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Thats because the changes were way too impactful on game balance. The devs have said forever that they are targeting a 60% kill rate (yes I know some people have made it very clear they think this is very bad and unfair). Disincentivizing slugging and tunneling is totally fine as long as it is not tilting the balance too far away from this target kill rate. These recent changes clearly were, so they need time to be adjusted. I think the devs have the right idea here, just needs some more time and testing for balance. I don’t disagree with the fundamental concept of these changes at all.
Most of the people who are upset are the ones we have seen on the forums calling for killer nerfs on a daily basis for months or even years because it’s always “us vs them” and “them” are the bad guys and “us” are the good guys and they don’t care how negatively any change impacts the bad guys.
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Im happy that they are implementing anti tunnel and anti slugg changes cause solo queue ist an unfun nightmare and has been for many months. Im a casual survivor player and not that great at looping and I have a lot of matches that are over in 3-4 minutes since killers realize that my looping skills are lackluster so Im tunneled directly of hook through decisive and otr which is just unfun.
But I also think that there is a sweetspot for these changes. The changes they wanted to implement for the PTB were just too much and easily abusable and in general seemed like they didn't really take a lot of things into consideration when designing them.
I really hope they take a good look at the system and then try again to implement something both sides can live with.
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I'm also really sad that the unique hook rewards are not coming in the next update. That was basically a huge buffs for killers that didn't tunnel like me. I was even planning a new perk build since pop and bbq was basekit XD
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Although I feel like the narrative of "WE SAVED DBD" might be a tad harsh in retrospect, the honest reality is if those changes were praised by the community, they would have made it past PTB and made it to live. Unless they outright say "We're only testing this, we don't plan on it going live," it's likely planned to make it to live unless it is extremely heavily criticized. They in fact did not say they were only testing it and not planning on it hitting live prior to the announcement that they heard the community feedback. The only reason we knew it was never going live is because we already knew how we would feel when testing it because we play the game.
Post edited by ChurchofPig on-2 -
I think it would be better to start of big and extreme and probably "bad" changes because then they can tweak the numbers and update ptb as they experiment. They are never going to balance dbd if they don't experiment with ptb, it shouldn't of been a delay, it should of been an update to the ptb with some tweaks.
I don't get why people are crashing out over these changes when I am quite happy that they even took this big decision. It actually is something.3 -
Devs literally confirmed there gonna tweak it and push it to live no matter what we say.
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Proof? I haven't seen this.
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PTB changes were far too much, impacting Killers not intentionally tunneling and being exploitable by Survivors. They already said they'd be back in another PTB after further iterating and it's important that these measures are actually balanced when released rather than making the single most important role in any match utterly miserable.
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PTB changes were far too much, impacting Killers not intentionally tunneling and being exploitable by Survivors. They already said they'd be back in another PTB after further iterating and it's important that these measures are actually balanced when released rather than making the single most important role in any match utterly miserable.
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So they're tweaking it… and putting it on another PTB. Then pushing them live when they believe it's ready. That's completely different from what you said. If they were making tweaks then pushing it live "no matter what we say" then it would be coming with this chapter. Which they straight up say in the part you circled they are not doing.
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I didn't say anything. I provided the proof the person wanted that BHVR is gonna make tweaks to the reduction system.
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All those weird rules how it is allowed to play killer are stupid from the get go. Just let people play. Camping, tunneling, slugging, that's all survivor made up issues. That's all slasher horror troupes. If you can't handle them, why did you start playing DbD in the first place? Maybe ask for a new BHVR game like: looping Louie, the happy rodeo clown. 4 rodeo clowns protecting a bullfighter from a bot bull, that is programmed to entertain the player.
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ngl i think its a soloq balancing issue both tunneling and especially slugging is so good against solo survivors, swf can deal with slugging way better than solos same with tunneling.
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I love how many people complan that these overtuned changes wont make it to live and call game killer sided that devs only lusten to killers.
Biggest exsample who devs listen to and make their wishes come true is skullmerchant from being strong to then still annoying but mediocre killer on max to then nerfed to the ground beneth trapper because people which hated to play against more of c-tier killer complained shows who they listen mostly.
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I mean lets be fair here, SOME changes make it past the PTB. Y'know, like that awful AFK crow update and no longer being allowed to take your chances, those major changes that punish exclusively survivors.
Those went through.
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Thats why they delayed these changes because they are more impactfull on gameplay than crows.
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in BHVR's vocabulary that means not anytime soon, probably 2027
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I don't think anything has ever been as bad as that first iteration of anti-go next/AFK crows. Solely because of the fact that it issued gameplay bans that carried harsher penalties than they did in the past for very big false flags. Anything else, even 6.1.0, didn't prevent players from playing the game entirely due to things beyond their control.
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Yup, people now know that BHVR will just bend if you create enough threads on the forum and spam them on twitter and reddit complaining about it.
Even if these changes make a return next PTB with some slight tweaks, they will just repeat the same thing as they did now since they know it will work.10 -
I think these anti changes would hurt leke half the killers and 10 weaker ones would feel hardcore as hell because you can get same punishment as blight tunneling on 5 gens with trapper,legion getting first kill on 4 hook stages 1 gen left and if it would be the person that was hooked last you would get hit with gens being untegressable and unblockable which is tunneling as well but with c-tier on one gen left first kill I mesn its draw at best and blight tunneling on 5 gens can power through these changes still so they were overtuned which would meant hard time for all weaker killers, changes in people playing more ghouls and others stronger killers which isnt good for survivors getting same killers over and over no change. Crow changes were bad to but if you touched gens you were ok.
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It's still not and will never be as bad because anti-tunneling and anti-slugging don't hit you with a DC penalty, nor is the DC penalty stronger with the patch like it was with anti-go next/afk. The game feeling terrible is valid, but the game not letting you play at all is something else entirely.
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It was probably the review bombing on Steam. In less than 48 hours they took the game from Positive to "Mixed."
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Long one here.
One thing I've learned over the course of this discourse was just how many people have double standards when it comes to certain things about this game. Not everyone obviously, but the amount double standards I've seen within this community can be a bit wild. A while back I made a post talking about Unbreakable being potentially base kit, and a lot of people basically said "Not happening" in laymen's terms, with most not even bringing suggestions on how to fix the current issue of slugging. (There were some good bits of conversation though)
An example of double standards. I have been told a couple things. One popular argument being, "You shouldn't need a perk to fix certain problems/issues." An example is when anyone brings up gen regression perks etc. Some people saying they shouldn't have to bring perks to stop certain mechanics of the game, but that's the actual point of the system in play. It's all about countering and adapting. I've seen people complain about flashlights, and when I've told people to bring lightborn when they see said flashlights. A perk that completely stops people from being able to use a popular aspect of the game. To which i get the same answer or similar I'd say about 80% of the time.
However, when you bring up slugging, people just say "Just bring unbreakable if it's so much of a problem"
Like…what? By that same argument, I shouldn't need to bring a perk to stop a mechanic thats being heavily utilized. Its more of an "It's okay for me, but not for thee" kind of shenanigans. And even then, it would probably be complained about to high hell until it got a nerf with 16 specific conditions in play before it would become active (This is hyperbolic/sarcasm, but you get the point) if it became so popular. Just look at how poorly people took the botany knowledge buff…..
I personally believe basekit unbreakable wouldn't be that bad, but think it should only start counting when 2 or more survivors are downed, and it has to be for like 150 seconds or something. Which some would say it's worthless then, but it's not supposed to be 100% of a crutch. Kind of like the anti camp. The people the changes really would have effected were killers who struggle with mobility or downing people in a chase fast enough to apply proper pressure. Which i think if that's the case, devs should look to tweaking and changing THOSE killers. (Save my boy trapper please) And i'm not talking about what they attempted to do with new Myers….. Not every killer should need a dash to make things less problematic. The changes they showed like base kit barbeque and other new built in features and the way some of them were more powerful on some killers, and weaker on others. (Nurse not being able to utilize the new system as strongly that they were attempting to implement, as it would have been really strong on her is a prime example) shows that they can add passive background perks on killers. Like make a system that if you're playing a less mobile killer, gens take a bit longer to repair vs one who is highly mobile, where they can stay the way they are at current. Something like that i don't know.
Last thing. This game, unfortunately, majority of the time, is stomp or be stomped. It's rare to find an in-between from my experience on both sides. You either have a really good killer, or ARE a really good killer, or get really good survivors, or ARE a really good survivor. Same for the bad aspect of this.3 -
This may seem very obvious but DBD has an issue with Tunneling and camping. this is not new and small tweaks have been made before.
But this was the first time the devs tried to implement real impactful game change to seriously remove these strategies. And these changes could be split into
Good
bad
Good ideas but badly designed.
The devs had a real chance to seriously improve the quality of the life of the game, was every idea good and should be implemented, no but they didn't need every change, some should stay some should go, some just needed redesigns. Instead of recognizing this as a great quality of life improvement a portion of the player base started screeching and threatening to quit, and the devs got scared and yes they say they will come back, to this, meanwhile still waiting for them to come back to Twins. And this is a victory??? this is the good ending.
Every issue survivors have still exists, nothing changed
What a joke of patch.
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The game doesn't any major universal changes and tunneling doesn't need to be "fixed". You always could fix it. By getting better at the game.
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An example of double standards. I have been told a couple things. One popular argument being, "You shouldn't need a perk to fix certain problems/issues."Kind of, but there's a key difference.
With gen kick perks people are arguing they are needed to win the game. A comparison might be to old, old dead hard. When people talk about not using mechanics to fix game aspects its more about the game can feel like its completely won or lost in the lobby.
DbD has improved on this aspect, but it used to be
Tunneling killer? Should have brought anti-tunnel.
Tunneling killer someone else? Should have brought anti-tunnel to protect the other survivors.
Camping killer? Should have brought reassurance.
Slugging? Exponential or unbreakable.
3 genning? Potential energy.
Etc
Right now we really only have the tunneling options truly left to address. If you bring the right perks you win, wrong ones and you lose.
Take the Lightborn example on a better way for perks to work. If you bring it and they go for flashlight saves, great, you benefit. But its not the only strategy you have to dealing with flashlights and the advantage it gives is not match deciding all on its own.
but think it should only start counting when 2 or more survivors are downed, and it has to be for like 150 seconds or something. Which some would say it's worthless then, but it's not supposed to be 100% of a crutch. Kind of like the anti camp.It would indeed be pretty worthless at that extreme.
The comparison to the AFC, that did change the game. Killers standing in front of the hook was stopped. While the timer could do with some minor adjustments, it did its job of fixing the most extreme cases.
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I still think the phase 2 killer changes should have the same impact as the anti hiding update of phase 1.
I waited years for an anti-hiding update, just to watch it get nerfed into uselessness. BHVR spent so much time make sure the AFK crows didn’t ever unfairly punish survivors…. Meanwhile, they recently released a PTB that very often unfairly punished killers.
And some of the people that demanded for AFK crows to be nerfed into uselessness, are now demanding for the phase 2 killer changes to be huge and impactful.
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