http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why do killers always get what they want when 4x more survivors are needed to sustain the game?
BHVR you are just shooting your own game in the foot by rolling back the anti slugging / anti tunneling changes that non-biased players have been wanting for YEARS. Why roll them back because of a loud minority of killer mains? Survivor is becoming increasingly frustrating with bad killer design (clown, kaneki, nurse, blight, etc), lack of tools given to solo queue, and overall balance clearly shifting in favor of killer even though killrates are already high.
How do they expect to sustain the game when survivors aren't given incentive to play? I imagine killer queue times will skyrocket 2v8 style because nobody will want to play survivor.
Such a knee-jerk reaction by the devs to rollback these changes when it would benefit the majority of the playerbase. It's truly a shame.
Comments
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I can't wait until they implement "Play while you wait" for regular mode. It will devolve into killers only playing survivor so they can (eventually) play killer, so they'll all just "Go next" as quickly as possible to get to what they REALLY want, and the game will just be an ouroboros of killers trying to find a legit game…
If you thought it took a long time NOW
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BHVR just said they were pushing back the system to make adjustments. You can wait til the mid-chapter.
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Swear survivor players can be the most stubborn and delusional. The Game is like a coin can't just ignore one side. Loud minority crying doom? Every single DBD content creator on YouTube (that i could find) agreed these changes were bad and can't go live since it's too punishing for ALL killer players not just the worst killers that should be punished and easily weaponized by SFW.
If the changes did went through all the killer players would likely quit and have would be dead just like Death Garden and VHS since those games have the survivors way too much to fight back against the killer.
Have ever tried just getting good yourself as a survivor and improve your looping and macro? I play both roles nearly 50/50 and my survivor games to often i see my team mates not doing gens or way too altruistic throwing the game.
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survivors have done nothing but wait
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Then you can easily wait a bit longer
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can we? i havent played in a week so far. dont really have much incentive to come back any time soon.
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It's always the "Survivors need to get gud" speech from Killer mains. Meanwhile they're allowed to skyrocket themselves into the high MMR brackets with their no-skill playstyle and then complain about the "bully SWF squads" that they lack the skill to face.
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"Loud minority of doomer killer mains"… lmao for real? Literally ever single content creator and streamer said it was bad and unhealthy, including survivor mains :D How are some ppl living in such a different reality in this community? If these changes were only active against Nurse, I'd say yeh go for it… but theres almost 38 other killers out there, barely keeping up with the meta :D
PS: I almost added Blight after I typed Nurse, but then I remembered a few days ago the best killer in the world (comp) was playing the arguably best killer in the game (Blight), He had to fight tooth and nails, sweat blood to even get a 2k against a lobby of survivors that was even heavily restricted in their perk and item use (comp rules)… So in what reality would you say PTB was ok? Honest question.
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However much the systems being needed aside, it was very clear that the version on the PTB was very heavy handed and punished behaviour that most people can generally agree wasn't tunnelling, not to mention a lot of the post-hook buffs the survivors got heavily affected weaker killers and didn't affect the strong ones at all. Therefore it needed adjustments, which BHVR are hopefully doing
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"Punishing" = offering the survivor side a reason to keep playing after someone dies at 5 gens instead of continuing to waste time in a lost match.
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Survivors were literally abusing the counter mechanics agressively in order for the killer not to get any other hooks…
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Then don't. Or do. It makes no difference. There's plenty of us who will stil play Survivor in the interim. @Crowman is correct. The game has lastest long enough without an anti-slugging or anti-tunneling system, that it won't hurt to wait a couple of months longer for them to fine tune it.
All of this doomposting is silly. In the eight years I've played this game, not once has anyone ever been even slightly correct about something "killing" (or at least hurting in the long run) DbD. Competition hasn't. Bad balance changes haven't. Bugs haven't. And neither will this. It's just more forum hysterics.
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People will downvote you for this, but no one will actually make a valid rebuttal because you're verifiably correct, and it annoys them considerably that you are.
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if you keep teasing a dog, eventually it will bite is all im saying.
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Except it won't. People have been threatening this for eight years now, and its yet to materialise into anything consequential. It's clear at this point that threats to quit or boycott are largely meaningless — most of the people who do so will be back within several weeks.
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see i just dont agree. its obvious a lot of people are at their wits end.
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It's really not. The people who are crying and threatening to quit the game are just a small minority. The people who enjoy playing the game who make up the majority are not coming onto the forums to complain.
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Well… it was sorta semi true in my case… I switched to playing mostly survivor in the last year. Killer role just doesn't give me that… well… power role anymore. On survivor however I feel it very VERY much in the current meta. Vigil Sprint burst, or a heal in 2secs build or… genrush build… so many meta choices to pick from. Personally I'm a fan of chase builds, being uncatchable rly tickles me happy spot :)
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Then we can simply wait and see. The game will pull the same numbers it always has, probably even grow with the release of the new Chapter, and nothing will change. As has been the case with every other instance of players threatening to quit en masse or boycott.
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same can be said if the changes went through, killers wouldnt want to play killer anymore. the past week so many people in game have said they were getting the kills in before they retire that role and switch to survivor or just quit the game due to the changes.
but to be fair the killer role would manage without survivors better than survivors would manage without killer. lets face it with the abandon thing, survivors are just turning to bots the first chance they get anyway so killers are used to going against bots. whats the survivors going to do without a killer?
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"The sky is blue"
Now watch all these ppl downvote an objective fact. I guess it's a good way of shutting down debate, cause I sure won't be attempting to have another rational conversation with someone like this… This is how you get loud minorities.
One more mathematical fact before I leave this forum. If your SR is below 40%, you are WELL below the average as per BHVR's latest stats. Maybe someone like this should take a long hard look in the mirror to selfreflect and come to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe they aren't as good as they think.
Peace <3
Post edited by Munky on-11 -
I always seen it both ways one side telling the other to get good. No skill play style as in the hard tunneling and slugging? It's up to the survivors macro skill to punish the killer if the killer does steam role then the survivors were playing poorly and everyone's MMR get adjusted then it's up to the killer to get good when they start facing more efficient survivors. I'm in favor of an anti-slug/tunnel mechanics to punish killers but this wasn't it. It needs further adjustment so it doesn't punish every killer player and survivors cant weaponize it in their favor.
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Or next year … or never.
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Play killer then.
If killer is such an easy and fun role to play, why you deny yourself the pleasure of playing as one?
We all know nothing will change. Survivor role is still easy and the only problem in solo Q are your very own selfish and troll team mates, not the killer you may be facing.
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On the flip side of that, I've mostly retired from Survivor and I don't play the role outside of events and time limited modes anymore (because I still enjoy those for the most part). I've barely played Survivor since the go next prevention was added and I don't plan to come back until anti-slug and anti-tunnel is added to the game in some way.
When BHVR make big changes to the way things have been for a very long time, they're always likely to upset people. For me, that was adding an incredibly harsh go next system, instantly nerfing the only new Survivor item we've had in years and pushing the anti-tunnel and anti-slugging back indefinitely.
Good luck keeping everyone happy BHVR, because it probably won't be possible.
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The only thing making me not wanna play survivor is BHVR treating their game like a walking ad/cash cow where the genre and atmosphere don't even matter. Every killer is just a mixture of a former killer and some popular franchise being treated badly. Getting tunneled isn't a bad thing, it's a strat, and its fun if you know how to loop.
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I love all the complaining about "killers always getting what they want" during a patch that is still survivor sided without the anti tunneling and slugging changes. No one cries louder in this game than a survivor main that is told they can't use abusive mechanics that can cause a win win win scenario for them. Then them turning around saying "it was more interactive" no it's not. It was just your side was the side that got absolute benefits from it instead of the killer side.
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Never understood the argument that the game needs survivors more. If either side numbers drop dramatically in numbers, the game will be in trouble.
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The survivor side of the game has been shrinking a lot but not necessary because people are quiting but they are switching to killer for a easier time especially in casual play and lower rank (added that so some killer sweat with 92% KR doesn't comment how Hard killer is). This is why you are seeing increase in que times despite having more players then ever
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i agree wont keep everyone happy, bhvr have their work cut out for them. personally im only sticking around because dbd has no alternative at the moment. im not keen on the survivor loop gameplay and killer gameplay is turning into a dash fest. everything else has died, tcm, friday 13th ect all dead. as soon as something else comes up that rivals dbd im highly likely to swap to that game (hopefully the halloween game next year)
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As much as I think the Devs don't exactly give the survivor side much love when it comes to health updates, I don't think that it's fair to say that they always give killers what they want. I do find it strange however that the Devs acted appropriately to feedback in this case, but ignored the feedback when it came to the recent Clown buff.
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You just know some poor guy is going to wake up the day after the new patch drops and be wondering what BHVR have done to their boy Myers. I don't know, maybe lots of players will really love the new turbo lunge Myers but I'm not so sure about that…
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im a p100 myers main so that change is another reason im not bothered with the killer role. the change might be ok and i will give it a go but im already not liking the drastic change lol sounds like a whole different killer
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It does seem like a big change. Myers was my first main but I only ever played him for gen grab jump scares, so I have a hilariously low kill rate (40%). I definitely wouldn't be the best person to ask what he needs to be stronger, but I really hope you enjoy his rework all the same.
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All these posts prove once again how poorly most players understand what game they are playing at all. There is absolutely nothing about "us vs them" here, if you are truly convinced that changes on the PTB would not lead to disaster (not to mention the fact that someone considers them even good), you literally do not understand what you are playing, even superficially.
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The hope, or at least what I'd like to see is that we get another PTB with the adjusted changes so we can test them again after all that's the point of the PTB. But the general issues with the new systems appear to be that the anti-slug/tunnel stuff promoted extremely aggressive survivor play while enabling bad decision making (healing under hook). While with the killer hook bonuses, good in theory it's issue is that even with the reduced bonuses is still heavily empowers top-tier killers while not doing all that much for ones who already struggle like Trapper.
I think it should really be hammered here but the anti-slug, anti-tunnel, post-hook bonus systems are THE BIGGEST FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE THIS GAME HAS EVEN SEEN. And to that effect, I cannot stress enough that these changes need to be tweaked, changed and test A LOT before going live. Revamping fundamental aspects to the game in a rushed, half baked manner will only added months or even years more of uncessary work to unscrew the system. So please, anyone reading this please PLEASE encourage Behaviour to release the revised changes for the next PTB, test them and give them feedback. If we all do our part then we'll be a lot happier with the end product.3 -
- Open the DbD forums
- See a post with the sentiment "survivors can't have anything nice."
- Open the thread and see that the "nice" thing in question is the opposing role being so completely obliterated that only the top ~5 Killers would be viable.
- Lol
Jokes aside, It's actually incredibly frustrating the amount of people who are staunchly defending the PTB changes, even when confronted by the ojective reality that the system had major oversights that rendered it unable to be safely pushed to live. It's not even a matter of opinion — it is a verifiable fact that the system failed to account for an unacceptable number of things.
Take Twins for example, a Killer whose power is completely reliant on slugging. Given that the anti-slugging system completely removes slugging as a viable strategy, you'd expect Twins to receive some kind of a rework, compensatory buff, or exception to the system to keep them playable despite the changes. Did this happen? No. It was overlooked.
What about trap Killers whose powers facilitate controlling an area of the map, making it difficult to reliably use the unique hook bonuses. Were they accounted for? No, it was overlooked. Meaning their ability to defend generators would be considerably weaker due to the perks being nerfed and their inability to utilise the unique hook benefits.
What about perks like Breakdown which make Survivors unhookable? Surely the anti-slugging system wouldn't punish Killers for slugging when the Survivors are the ones who forced the Killer's hand. Nope. Again, it was overlooked.
What about Killers who cannot choose which Survivors they kill? Onryo and Pig have little control over who dies to their power as the counterplay is in the hands of the Survivors. Surely they won't be punished for Survivors' misplays? Nope. The system didn't account for that.
I could go on, but you get the idea.
It's actually scary how many people just refuse to engage when you bring these up. Instead of going "Alright yeah, that's an oversight that needs ironed out.", they hit you with a downvote and bury their head in the sand so they can continue pushing the narrative that this was unreasonable Killer mains on a crusade to make Survivor as awful as possible. Like, no… Lots of us also play Survivor, and also want to see improvements come to the role. But this was clearly not a good implementation of that and needs further work.
People are acting like BHVR has completely scrapped and and all possible improvements for Survivor, when it was very clear in their statement that they've just temporarily pushed them back. It's exhausting.
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I completely agree. My favourite thing about this madness:
People who understand this game reading Devs Notes:
- Yeah, it's absolutely gamebreaking, with no doubt
- Guys let's wait for patch note, it can be fine
People reading patch:
- Yeah, no difference at all, this changes will ruin the game completely, like we said before
- But let's play with it, test it, maybe it's not that awful
- We like have eyes and brain, but ok
People after playing PTB:
- We even more sure that this will be disaster for the game after testing it
- STINKY KILLER MAINS DOOMPOSTING AND ALWAYS GET WHAT THEY WANT HOW DARE YOU BHVR
Literally all 50/50 players: - Ok buddy
What about scenarios: right now i'm writing a big post in hope to reach devs about slugging, because I don't believe it can be fair in any way implemented, no matter what number will be, simply because game is designed around slugging a lot. Killer powers, perks on both sides, risk and reward play, overall game balance, all these things tied to slugging so much, that I don't understand how it's possible to add this mechanic without destroying a lot of macro plays and eliminate skill and decision making on both sides with unfair rewards for mistakes for one side and unfair punishment for good play for other side.
Anti-tunnel, yeah, it has potential to be good for the game with right numbers and lead to win-win for both sides, but anti-slugging, I believe, will ruin a lot of stuff I love about this game.-4 -
At this point its just like when a kid says to the parent 'How come [sibling] always gets [X] and I only get [Y]'. Literally every time I open this up. It annoys me when its killers doing similar stuff too but this just feels weird.
Of course a company who just got flamed for a full week (by multiple affiliated content creators btw) is going to delay and make changes. They just got every bit of evidence that this is a bad change and now they (rightly) need to reconsider at least some numbers and at most entire mechanics.
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I'll keep an eye out for the post! The more detailed feedback they get, the better :)
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I'm sorry, it's kinda fun how you are presenting the events like there was only a civil discussion and constructive criticism around the changes. Nobody was talking like it would kill the entire game, or spamming the subreddit with doomposts.
Yeah it's getting a little bit whiny now. But not near as much what I saw during the ptb.
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Why do killers always get what they want when 4x more survivors are needed to sustain the game?
I think you fail to understand who is needed more when game already has decent player count.
What has bigger effect, if 1 killer stop playing, or if 1 survivor stop playing?1 -
Nah, obviously killers doomposted a lot before ptb too and I hate to read all these "Side X, quit the game right now, they only care about side Y blablabla" without discussion itself, but I'm talking about other thing: how people refuse to believe that experienced player can recognize obviously bad change with just reading it, without "let's read… and let's test it… and let's give this update to console players… and keep it for year… and then we can make a decision". That was fun for me.
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I think at some stage, the survivors will eventually reach a breaking point, and there will be no turning back from that point onwards.
I mean, case in point, we saw what happened with the first new survivor item that got added in like 9 years. It got gutted to the point where it is pretty much meaningless. It was supposed to be an incentive to reduce the usage of toolboxes and medkits, but look what happened, and you still see mostly toolboxes and medkits.
Meanwhile, there has been a huge uptick in killers "protesting" by slugging all 4 survivors, bleeding them out while humping on them. Is that defined as fun for the receiving end?
And people still question why survivor players are quitting?5 -
Are these "meaningless itmes" in room with us? Because Fog Vials I use are completely fine and only thing needs to be done is equalizing effect, because on some maps it's too transparent. And on majority of maps it is like this:
What else it should do, teleport you on another side of the map?
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This is always true, no matter what happens with anything in the game, including game balance.
The immediate and direct consequence of this thought process is that the devs should always unconditionally give killers whatever they want, since they will continue to be the 1 in the 1v4.
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what exactly was nerf'd about them? thought they just had their CD increase?
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Fog Vials are bugged. On some maps they're completely opaque and on others they do almost nothing. They're impossible to balance until they equalise the effect across maps.
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On top of that, they're an item built to create gameplay situations in which neither side is interacting. Just not a great design overall. Would prefer if they just reworked them to be a small, opaque smoke sphere like the Halloween events. Pop it on a corner like shack and now you can mindgame it more interesting ways while being equalized across maps. Boom, fixed.
-1 -
Honestly, Survivors are stronger now than they've been in several years. A massive amount of viable perks, more impactful buffs to perks, recent Survivor perks being much better than recent Killer perks, extra long hook stages, anti-camp (necessary, but still makes them stronger), etc. And that's not even considering things like increasing player skill over time being more beneficial for Survivors over Killers. While having some form of anti-slug and anti-tunnel would be good, those PTB changes were not balanced nor viable in the long-term.
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