Scrap the Built-In Anti-Slugging mechanic and Instead, Introduce Altruistic Sacrifice.
Slugging I'd argue is not as big of a deal as it once was back then, we have perks and we have the abandon feature, instead introduce the new mechanic of Altruistic Sacrifice, where;
Whenever a 2v1 scenario happens that the killer refuses to kill the second to last survivor by any means, and if left on the ground for 60 seconds, give that survivor the option to forcibly bleed out and die within 8 seconds.
It would stop stalemate games prolonging and give just a tiny bit hope for 50/50 escape through hatch mind you, or through doors, and for the survivor that scarifies themselves will overall get a boost in altruism points/ emblems
And if you wanna argue that if you wanna got next faster and just give the killer the kill, it defeats the purpose of tense situations where 1v1's can be the most adrenalizing clutch feeling for both the killer and survivor of will they or won't make it? This game's system too doesn't count hatch escapes as a win too, and counts it as tie. And if we want to as well, take Otz's idea of making the 3k just as valuable and equal in points just like the 4k.
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I have no idea why people are downvoting this. It's an escape for the survivor who got slugged for the 4k and making the 3k count as much as the 4k would also stay true to the 60% kill rate goal and also make the killer who just wants bloodpoints be a lot less sweat covered in the final showdown.
I also think there are better options for anti slug than what they have anyway.
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Even if the 3k was made as valuable and rewarding as the 4k, people would still go for the 4k. Plus, a survivor having the ability to sacrifice themselves still only works in this specific scenario. It doesn't account for every other scenario, especially the more malicious instances of slugging for the sake of slugging, and not strategy. These sort of ideas would certainly help, but they aren't universally helpful.
Another issue is the idea that a problem could be solved by just using the right perks. Anti-tunnel and anti-slugging perks have the detriment of being useless if a killer does not tunnel or slug, plus you have to have access to them to begin with. Not everyone has every dlc, every character leveled up or gets lucky with the shrine. Its a bandaid fix that isn't fair to ask of every person to use. The devs have been releasing perks to solve major issues for a long time instead of actually addressing the issue itself.
The last point I wanted to make was that a survivor shouldn't be slugged for more than 90 seconds. There isn't any plausible situation where its even justified to keep someone slugged for an extended period of time. If someone actually gets up after 90 seconds, its because the killer made a choice. Even if the whole team is trying to bully you and "abuse" the system, thats still time where gens aren't being done or are being done at a much slower pace.
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Yeah exactly lol. The true problem this game has always had is the 2v1 scenario, nobody likes being in a stalemate and let's not kid ourselves that a lot of people have pride and ego of not wanting to lose in those type of situations. Killer wants the 4k that badly, and the survivor refuses to give up, that's how it's always been. If we implement a system that can discourage that, count a 3k being as good as a 4k and not prolong a stalemate and also count it towards killer adepts, then I see it as a win imo.
And even if we implement that system, some killers won't care about the new requirements and still bleed out the second to last survivor just for that sweet 4k, so that's where the Altruistic Sacrifice will come in.Post edited by GillyBeannn on2 -
Even if the 3k was made as valuable and rewarding as the 4k, people would still go for the 4k.
Well, the point isn't to eliminate 4Ks. It's just to eliminate the whole YOU MUST GET 4K FOR MAXIMUM POINTS thing. It's less stressful, which should equate to less stress for survivors.
I agree there are still tons of problems they need to address, but I think this is a good idea, too.
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That's exactly it. even if some killers don't give a damn about the new 3k reward system, that's where Altruistic sacrifice comes in, either take your kill or the survivor will choose to off themselves to give the last person a chance.
the Anti-slugging mechanic as a whole is just a way for swf to abuse their saves with, where no matter what the killer does, they can never pick up, and if this was applied in a 2v1 scenario, the same stalemate problem will occur because the killer wants the 4k, survivor, slugged survivor keeps picking themselves up and probably going down in under a minute, and to me, that's just worse overall.
The killer sometimes does not have a choice of leaving someone on the ground for too long, cuz like I said in a swf scenario, they force themselves to go down under a pallet and everyone's swarming for the save. What exactly is the killer supposed to do? I believe now because Knockout got reworked and there's now an abandoned feature so the killer can't bm 4man bleedout anymore, slugging doesn't need to be a basekit mechanic now and just be tied to perks. Bill is the only free survivor that comes with Unbreakable, so I don't believe it's an issue for newer players.0 -
the problem with that is the killer can still pick up 3rd survivor and chase them endlessly around the map untill 4th survivor finally decides to come out of hiding or the 3rd survivor rats them out. 60 seconds on the ground just wouldnt happen because the killer would pick up, let go and chase again.
2 v 1 situations can be dealt with easy by removing hatch and starting egc after X amount of time has passed. do the gens or perish. hatch itself is an outdated system and in my experience its rarely 50/50 chance because hatch spawn points have very limited rng of spawn points. good survivors that play the game a lot know exactly where these spawn points are. they head to 1 of these location and hide untill 3rd survivor dies on the other side of the map then as soon as hatch spawns they hop in before killer can has a chance to get there. survivor can wait at a possible hatch spawn while killer is busy with the other survivor. the killer doesnt have that luxury of waiting at a possible hatch spawn, they have to go wherever the survivor leads the chase to which puts the hatch escape in favour of the survivor.
evidence of this is shown by many videos online where survivors run to hatch spawns before it spawns and even in my matches i slugged a toxic survivor and literally watched them crawl to a seemingly random location and wait. 3rd survivor dies on hook, hatch spawn directly under the slugged survivor. this is made even worse by using hatch offerings.
the game system doesnt count hatch escape as a win but it does reward BP and offering tie instead of a loss just incentivises survivors to hide and settle for a tie instead of a loss in a match they have clearly lost. I know survivors want hatch as a means of last hope in a hopeless match but imo the hope of winning is there at the start of the match and if that hope eventually dwindles down to 0 then its time to accept defeat, get the match over and move on.
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I think this issue has more do with a majority of the killer roster being on the weaker end. Like I said before, if the survivors are trying to abuse the mechanic as a bully squad, they're still not doing gens and are taking a risk against killers that are more mobile. Generally in that situation, take advantage of their altruism and instead go after the weaker link, or someone not exactly in the right position.
The killers who struggle with this are the one's with no mobility or range, but its only a losing situation if you let it be.
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I completely disagree I think antislug was fine on PTB, but I have an alternative if they really don't want any form of basekit unbreakable, then the easy solution is to expand abandon scenarios, let survivor abandon after being slugged too long I can't think of anything else. You can slug bots and we can go next and play the game, me I would prefer the PTB version
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I like the idea that if 2 survivors are slugged they would be able to pick each other up. It looks way too easy to proc as it was and can let you just become an absolute menace. I feel like teamwork should be more impactful on the match, why not make it the cure for slugging.
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Just giving the option for the survivors to abandon is enough I don't care about the win but having to be slugged for a long time just for the killer to get a 4k is a horrible experience not only for me but the person trying to get hatch.
I don't even care about losing or winning just let me dc at that point…
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"absolute menace" just because the game doesn't end immediately after being slugged like it is on live server ? I think ptb version is great it just lets you play the game which is kinda the point, I think people are scared of any kind of change
"teamwork" doesn't work with strangers, like I said they can just expand abandon scenarios as an alternative, it works for me
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Repeat after me:
Perks are not a solution to a basekit problem.
Perks are NOT a solution to a basekit problem.
PERKS are not a solution to a BASEKIT problem.
If you disagree, then lets put gens back to 70 seconds. Because you have pain res, pop, grim embrace. Gen speeds arent as big of a deal anymore, plenty of perks and if you cant handle it, the game is over fast anyway-1 -
Yeah abandon options are definitely the safest option but my idea would ideally come with some level of basekit aura reading so both can see each other, and maybe the closer they get to one another and the longer they're slugged the faster they crawl just to cut off some of the time it'd take to cross that distance. I guess I just want a creative solution to some of this games issues that give both sides more content, new animations and skills to hone rather than basekit perks or abandons. Think about how the endgame collapse was added to fix a problem and it genuinely makes things more tense and interesting, if a solution like that is possible that's what I want.
Edit: forgot to mention I said absolute menace because if you can proc it once you basically have no mither without the downsides, the first pick up wasn't the issue for me it was the permanent buff it gave you after that. Especially since most of my slugging is just letting a death-hook person stay in the match a bit longer while building a bit of pressure on the side. The game would literally be punishing me for showing mercy and letting someone get picked up.
Post edited by Deadman7600 on0 -
I'm so sorry, I'm confused by what you mean by this, I can't tell if you agree with me or not. 😥
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For people that know hatch spawn locations, it's still a HUGE RNG that it even spawns exactly where the survivors are. That's just pure luck on their end, especially for the last survivor that's slugged, so no people don't know "exactly" where hatch will spawn if they gamble running to a part of the map, that again is pure luck as this game's environment is built upon. I do not agree with hatch being outdated, I'd argue that DBD's variety of methods for escaping is waaaay limited than other asymm games. Other games always had up to 4 methods of escaping through objectives, and DBD only has 2 and the 2nd option for escaping is pure RNG and requires your teammates to die or be left behind EGC
That sort of mindset of when things go downhill to just simply give up is such a poor mindset, when there have been many scenarios for comebacks or impossible escapes to happen. Same thing with killer.
And for the killer forcing the survivor off their shoulder to sell out their last teammate, well that can be considered teaming and is reportable.
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true teaming is reportable and shouldnt happen but the problem is it is very difficult to prove the survivor rat them out if the killer is chasing them around the map. just as avoiding gens and hiding indefinitely is reportable and shouldnt happen. Both do happen which means something should be done. (afk crows was supposed to help prevent the hiding but people complained and it got reverted back)
i can only say from my experience of playing the game for years, that as survivor i can find the hatch way easier than the killer. i can use an offering to increase that chance while other survivors use offerings for BP or to seperate survivors at spawn so im not missing out on anything. dont forget hatch offering is now hidden so if i bring that offering my whole team can benefit and the killer has no idea. true killer can also use an offering but does the killer want to use their 1 and only offering on the hatch and miss out on BP or to counter the survivor spawn offering? as survivor i can also bring a key to open the hatch after the killer has found it first and closed it. the killer cant do anything if the survivor finds the hatch first. a guaranteed escape? no. there is still luck involved but its most certainly not 50/50 even chance when hatch spawns.
i agree people shouldnt simply give up when things go down hill, however people have been doing this for years and still doing it. All people slugged, all people have unbreakable so can continue? nah just abandon, killer now has to play a match with bots.
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