Change Volatile Generator Speeds
with the conceptualisation of killer being limited in their ability to kill a survivor as quickly as possible, we also need to standardise the survivor objective and reduce their ability to finish each generator as quickly as possible.
my idea is simple and doesnt have any bells and whistles: a solo* generator cannot be completed in any less than 70 seconds under any circumstance (except for if a survivor is considered to be tunnelled out i guess). there are probably more elegant solutions changing things across the board, but maybe this is a decent bandaid for now
*other amounts of survivors repairing the same gen would also need to be tuned accordingly
Comments
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completely agree, if killers are forced to delay kills then gen speed absolutely needs to be knocked back. the issue with that is a large section of players already hate touching gens because its boring sitting there pressing a skill check now and then and shows no skill. The argument pushed by many survivors is chase and interaction is the fun and skilful part. Who wants this boring gen mechanic to be prolonged further? maybe if survivors had additional objectives on top of doing gens (similar to the blood gens mechanic)? Maybe have an item they need to find first? im not sure what exactly but something that involves a bit of movement and risk or a little mini game of some sort to keep players attention so they wouldnt mind putting the extra time into doing it. Asking a survivor to spend more time on a gen just wont go down well.
alternatively, if gen speeds remain the same, maybe make it easier for all types of killers to get downs not just the ever so popular speed freaks and nurse.
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i think you can normalise gen speeds without making them strictly last longer at base, the way i suggested is one of them. there are definitely other ways to go about it as well, some amount of basekit corrupt/deadlock or like in 2v8 gens will be boosted/slowed dependent on how many gens are completed. imo the biggest factor to how quick gens can be completed is using perks and toolboxes that massively affect their speed, especially in the case of hyperfocus or the very best commodius toolbox/bnp etc. reducing the effects that these stack is one step to making gens last a more consistent duration
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I saw volatile in the title and thought that this was a dying light killer concept, however it appears that it is not.
I would, however be inclined to agree with you on this. I don't think that gen times need to be extended but if there was some sort of limit put onto killers ability to tunnel, such as the recent ptb, standardized gen times (meaning the full 70s) could be an idea to balance it. My main problem with this is what is to happen with toolboxes and all the generator perks if this is the case.0 -
While I agree that tunnelling and genrushing are somewhat-equivalent issues that both require changes, you're stepping into a very common pitfall in discussing them: You're trying to solve a loadout problem with basekit adjustments.
Tunnelling is a basekit problem, the killer can do it no matter their loadout, it requires no investment from them. Genrushing, on the other hand, requires specific tools to do at all, and even more specific tools than that to do in any way that's actually problematic.
There's no reason to change the survivor basekit to address genrushing. You just need to rework toolboxes and the problem practically disappears on its own.
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having a minimum amount of time a gen must be completed in only has an effect towards survivors who bring tools to make them faster. theres no way for a gen to be completed in less than 70 seconds solo without items or perks
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I would much rather have some kind of minimum (such as 70s) than a blanket increase in gen time.
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It's just overcomplicating the problem. There's one specific item that causes this issue, so just address that item.
Even stacking a full build surrounding gen speed increases gives you less than half the value of a toolbox, there really isn't an issue outside of specifically toolboxes.
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there are a lot of things in combination that can make gen speeds wildly vary, which yes does include toolboxes, but perks such as hyperfocus + stakeout, deja and resi, prove etc. i agree toolboxes are problematic and should be addressed but you cant only address toolboxes as the meta would shift to medkit and whatever the next best gen tools are which atm is hyperfocus and stakeout (bardic also has very strong synergy with those perks)
in general though for toolboxes, i think making them unable to get skill checks to remove great bonuses and certain perk synergy is a good place to start, removes the ceiling but also makes them easier to use for noobs. other than that just generally nerfing charges is probably the next step
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Hyperfocus and Stakeout are only problematic with toolboxes, not so much on their own, and all other gen speed increases are honestly pretty small so even in combination they're well within reasonable parameters.
I do agree that toolboxes being adequately addressed probably would mean them being dropped, but to be fair BHVR have been at least attempting to make item variety better. Keys were substantially improved, maps were at least ostensibly improved, and there was a whole new item that we could strengthen to make it more appealing compared to medkits.
It also doesn't really stop toolboxes from just being the problem with gen speeds, so it's worth doing even if people just shift to medkits.What I'd do with toolboxes is rework the repair speed to something else entirely. Maybe a shield against regression, that idea's been tossed around before— that combined with the extra skillcheck chance (+ a nerf to Hyperfocus so it doesn't work when repairing with toolboxes) would make toolboxes more than worth using without radically altering repair speeds.
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Generator speeds are fine, its Killers who refuse to patrol them and get survivors off them.
Had a match with a Wesker recently, first 3 min was chasing the first person.
He ran past me on a Gen 3 times within less than 8m.Then we pop the first 3 gens he starts to tunnel because of it, told us postgame chat, we were Gen rushing him.
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fair take
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base gen speeds arent a problem, the problem is that they wildly vary not always dependent on how the killer plays but the type of items or perks that survivors bring. better consistency in how long it takes for repairs will help killers make better macro decisions and predict timings and not have plays retroactively be worse because a certain thing was brought in. the genrushing/tunnelling thing is also an ouroboros of itself - killers "have" to tunnel because survivors "genrush", survivors "have" to "genrush" because killers tunnel. theyre problems almost dependent on eachother and they both need to be fixed
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I'm currently running stake out, hyperfocus, prove thyself and deja vu with a commodius with BNP and wire spools.
I straight up can't be mad when the killer tunnels me, because if they don't, gens would go way faster.
Heck, I had a Kaneki tunnel me out and the others got 3 1/2 gens done by the time I died.0 -
toolboxes and individual volatility are genuinely dwarfed by the sheer inconsistency with which soloq players approach gens, if all 4 players are aggressively doing gens then the game is completely different to a game where 2-3 survs are not
i genuinely dont know how you balance the game around this, if you make it so that all players doing gens is 'fair' for killer then most soloq games are autolose, if you make the game winnable with some of the survs neglecting gens then the killer has no agency if the survs actually decide to do gens
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honestly i think at some point its just mandatory for survivors to see gen auras, either the nearest gen or all gens or gens a teammate is working on, whatever manner they have to do so. players with a lot of experience will already know where all the gens are anyway and we dont really need to punish bad players not only for being afraid to commit to gens but also spend half the match not even knowing where they are in the first place. it also alleviates one of the biggest problems with indoor maps which are even more inconsistent for finding gens and gen speed suffers much harder in indoors
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basekit gen info would help, but it won't stop survivors from 'hiding', fishing for flashlight saves, constantly forcing recents, or doing any number of other sub optimal things that arent gens
i would be seriously surprised if the game enters 2027 without 2v8 style gen rubberbanding being how 1v4 works, which is a very unfortunate direction for the game
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This is not healthy for the game
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it wouldnt stop those things but really those are bad plays not strictly related to gens, if youre running around actively trying to find a gen to work then gen aura would help those players a lot more
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