http://dbd.game/killswitch
Wish there was a good form of anti-tunnel and slugging
Not the version in the PTB as many of pointed it's a little...nuts but all night i've been dealing with slugging and tunneling. I just want to enjoy my game and sadly I don't have friends that play. I just want to enjoy the game and not deal with what monstrosity this thing has become. Also no I can't play killer because MMR sadly doesn't exist for me.
Comments
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I played last night and it was a nightmare
Even with tunneling, the generators are repaired at speed of light, as if you're doing nothing
So I'm not surprised that killers are tunneling/slugging at 5 generators
Scott also published the video on this topic, and I completely agree with him
Either you have opponents who don't really know anything, or SWFs who abuse and use everything they can3 -
This is the problem, right here. This is just a problem of MMR not working. The MMR rework can't come soon enough. For me it is EXACTLY this, there is no in-between, either they give up or you get gen rushed in 3-4mins. Neither option is fun to me.
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Is slugging even a problem any more? Very occasionally a killer will slug everyone to make them bleed out, but that's very rare AND has been fixed by allowing disconnects now.
Tunnelling needs addressing though, at the very least to avoid the hard tunnelling one person out at the start of the game. Unsafe unhooks should be fair game.
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I can understand your frustration here. Now, you mention not being interested in the version that was on the PTB. Is there something specific that you would find useful to help with tunneling and slugging?
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I wish there was a good form of Anti-Hiding (AFK Crows) and Anti-Ragequitting (Go Next). We were supposed to have this in phase 1, and it’s still not here.
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There's a saying: A good plan today is better than a GREAT plan tomorrow.
Every day that goes by without a fix is causing more people to DC (see the many videos from Scott Jund, et al, or see the many threads here complaining about it) or just leave the game entirely.
I was worried about the state of the game, but it turns out that every day that goes by also reduces my giving a #########. I have other games to play, and BHVR doesn't pay my bills, so…
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the problem was bhvr just outright delayed it and killers took it as a green light to tunnel so now an already bad problem is worse. Bhvr made the wrong call, they should’ve pushed it live and adjusted it accordingly through data, you know like they’re doing with the ghoul. I was looking forward to not needing to bring bbq anymore but nah killers like me who actually rotate and don’t tunnel get nothing and back to the status quo.
i want anti tunneling, so they can buff my playstyle. My playstyle can’t get buffed until tunneling is addressed because killers would become already stronger than they are now. It’s messed up that bhvr is just listening to people who aren’t in their appropriate mmr bracket and “need” to tunnel.-2 -
Werent the timers for the afk crows nerfed into irrelevance?
Its funny how killers are blamed for the ptb backlash yet people ignore this.
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Yes. AFK crows were nerfed into irrelevance, because of survivor complaints.
Excessive hiding is officially considered a problematic behavior, which is why we were supposed to have an anti-hiding update.
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Well, both of them definitely had their problems mainly the anti-tunnel But I feel like anti-slug could’ve had a few adjustments and it would’ve been perfectly fine The main problem with anti-slug was the ability to recover while moving because this made it so you were forced to either pick up instantly even if there was another person nearby so they could go for a flashlight save or a sabo play, or in scenario 2 you see Survivor A is close and you slug Survivor B to go Chase with Survivor A and while you’re busy with that Survivor B can crawl all the way to a corner while recovering to get back up safely during that time which would to you having one down again. if that part of the anti-slug was removed It probably would’ve been completely fine to have the game.
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I appreciate you laying out those multiple situations! This makes it easier to organize feedback for the right folks. Thanks!
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should’ve went live with zero changes so you can take months to acquire data to make adjustments just like you guys are doing with the ghoul. Oh wait this is for survivors.
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Ghoul went live with 37 changes.
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and none of them mattered because they didn’t address his real issues
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Does that mean it would be ok to revert all of Ghoul's nerfs, since according to you, they aren't meaningful?
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Having the "move while recovering" base kit is too much. That alone impacts the situational slugging, but does very little for excessive slugging. Survivors should have to choose to move or recover in the short term, and excessively long slugging situations you have plenty of time to recover while stationary, then move later. "Base kit tenacity" impacts the wrong kinds of slugging, and can just be removed.
I didn't get to test it, but from reading, my understanding is that Elusive disables collision, but the survivor can still be hit by the killer (if it doesn't work this way, why was base kit BT/endurance even still a thing). Anti body block can only work if the Elusive survivor can't be targeted by attacks either, which would effectively make the unhooked survivor a ghost until they are healed or perform a conspicuous action.
From a positive standpoint, you managed to touch basically every box that needed to happen here: killers rewarded for hooking, incentive to spread hooks, penalties for hard tunneling, removing body blocking.
These systems, with the tweaks above, are not abusable in any way. Anything less is likely to not be effective at changing player behavior, and honestly, the fact that people would have to change tactics is the primary reason you got flooded with negativity.
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if they fix his hit scan by not being a hit scan making it require skill, and by removing his ability to cancel after 1 leap and increasing the delay to m1 yes. Any downvotes for this means you just want a brain dead killer with zero skill.
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This content has been removed.
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The boosts after unhooking (elusive etc.) were great, but could still be weaponized. Pallet or flashlight saves and just dropping pallets for other survivors in chase.
But the most problematic one is that there shouldnt be situations where the survivor wants to die bc its the best outcome for the team.
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My friend who bought the game during Anniversary, whom I was trying to teach, wanted to play a match yesterday.
He hasn't played since Anni because, you know, how DBD treats new players.
Yeah, he got tunneled off of first hook by a Houndmaster. She then proceeded to tunnel a bot and then bleed me out because I ran her for a while despite not really knowing how she works lol.
Not much of a reason to play Survivor. Paltry rewards, horrid matches, unfun Killers. Why would you even bother?
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Those are primarily bug fixes? Not balance changes.
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Having the "move while recovering" base kit is too much. That alone impacts the situational slugging, but does very little for excessive slugging.
Agreed with all the slugging issues. It actually gave too much agency to downed survivors and forced lose lose situations. Not healthy changes.
I didn't get to test it, but from reading, my understanding is that Elusive disables collision, but the survivor can still be hit by the killer (if it doesn't work this way, why was base kit BT/endurance even still a thing). Anti body block can only work if the Elusive survivor can't be targeted by attacks either, which would effectively make the unhooked survivor a ghost until they are healed or perform a conspicuous action.
Yup you can still take hits, even easier than now because you can avoid sandbagging your teammate and even take hits through window vaults as well as drop pallets! They need to remove the survivor hitbox and they need to disable environment interactions (pallets) and item usage (that isnt a conspicuous action so self healing still works) too while the effect is active. It's supposed to let you get away from the killer, not let you interfere with your unhookers chase with no consequences. You shouldnt be able to drop pallets or hide with the built in stealth to go for easy flashy saves.
Second chance mechanics need to stop being able to be weaponised. Otherwise there should be no protections and no penalties for the killer having to deal with them. Survivors weaponizing mechanics is a massive problem that feeds into lots of other problems.
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They include changes that make the killer weaker.
It's very different from the "BHVR literally made zero changes" claim.
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elusive effect was good and hook's status being obscured, why not try a simplified version without the penalties ? it won't do much but it's better than nothing
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It's still incredibly bad faith to argue that he got 37 changes when the majority are just bugfixes.
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It's even more bad faith to argue that BHVR literally made 0 changes.
A lot of those changes made the killer weaker. I'm not interested in semantic games, where this game has a bizarre definition of nerf, that doesn't match other games.
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Seems like a decent portion of those are also buffs, since you want to argue semantics.
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What if the tunneling/slugging penalties were tied to the number of gens completed? Hard tunneling and slugging is most problematic for the early game, but once it's mid/late game the killer might be forced to rely on those tatics for a chance to make a comeback. At 5 /4 gens the penalty is active and there's a chance to punish the killer if they want to tunnel someone out or slug everyone. When 2 gens are left it's turned off maybe 3(?) so the killer can have a chance for a comeback without forcing a lose-lose situation on them in the survivor's favor.
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Didn't you recently make a post saying that anti-loop mechanics don't need to actually involve loops at all?
Survivors would just 99% generators to exploit this. Number of generators also doesn't make sense, because it doesn't apply to both sides of the game. If killers aren't supposed to do things at 5 gens, then survivors shouldn't be supposed to do certain things at 0 hooks.
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Tunneling
Right now if the killer wants to tunnel they can and it becomes a game of whether the survivors guessed right or not on their perks.
Changes to require more gamesense are good ideas, such as hiding the unhook notification. It creates more strategy on both sides instead of the killer just having automatic information.
Making the survivor harder to find by hiding scratch marks, blood, and grunts of pain are also good ideas.
Things like seeing the killer aura aren't necessary and take away an important game element.
The partial etherealness just causes problems. It needs to either be all or nothing. Either make the survivor unable to be hit at all, but also not able to uses items and pallets, or get rid of the idea.
At the extreme end this doesn't deal with the worst case scenario - a killer standing right outside the AFC range who will target one survivor even if it means throwing the game. That results in an unfun experience for all survivors even if they win. However, I don't think BHVR should try and fix everything in one go (one of the problems with the patch was doing way too much), make improvements and then reevaluate.
Slugging
It's just more than necessary. Increased crawling speed, good, having to not hold the button, good, but not the crawl and heal at the same time.
I don't think basekit unbreakable is necessary, but the time is extreme enough that I don't think it helps or hurts the game that much.
25% bonus / gen block
I think these shouldn't be thought of as primarily anti-tunnel, but balancing out the game experience to deal with the more extreme lop sides events and to offset the killer buffs.
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Correct, just like slowdown mechanics don't need to involve gens at all.
I fail to see how that is relevant to you refusing to call those changes what they are. They are bug fixes, some benefit Ghoul, some do not. Call them bug fixes and let's leave it there.
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No. I will say the changes make the killer weaker, because that is what they did.
I refuse to use this game's bizarre definition of nerf, that is completely different from other games.
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Fine, let's go through the list you posted.
- The Ghoul's Kakugan Reticle no longer rotates when pointing at the ground while rotating the camera.
Buff to Ghoul.
- Survivors no longer become immobile after dropping a pallet on The Ghoul when the latter is attempting to perform a grab-attack.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul is no longer able to Leap Grab a Survivor during the dying state animation, preventing the associated issues.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's power now reloads properly when used a second time.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's input prompt over the power icon now updates to the current prompt.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's score event Become Enraged is no longer earned when performing a direct grab in enraged mode.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Kagune Swipe score event is now earned when The Ghoul does not reach the survivor on the first swing.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The prompt no longer remains on screen when a Survivor attempts to blind The Ghoul during a failed grab-attack QTE.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The grab Cooldown SFX no longer persists after performing a Pallet Vault with The Ghoul's power.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- Damaging a survivor with a tentacle grab now removes Play With Your Food tokens for The Ghoul.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- Damaging the obsession with a tentacle grab now removes Save The Best For Last tokens for The Ghoul.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Tentacles now have aura when Tentacle swinging.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Kagune Reticle is no longer momentarily visible when arriving at a window/pallet to Tentacle vault.
Buff to Ghoul.
- Enraged mode Countdown UI now pauses while carrying Survivors for The Ghoul.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Tentacle Impact Smoke VFX no longer appears offset with the Survivor model for The Ghoul.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul is no longer pushed forward after tentacle vaulting a pallet on one side.
Buff to Ghoul.
- Survivors with Kagune Mark KE now receive damage when Direct Grab vaulting to Survivor close to a Window or Pallet for The Ghoul.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Enraged mode withdrawal vignette VFX now pauses when carrying a Survivor.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul can now perform Tentacle Swing vault over the Killer Shack.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's tentacle animation is now present when performing the second Kagune Leap charge at the end of the cooldown.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's camera is now centered on the Survivor during a grab-attack.
Buff to Ghoul.
- After a grab-attack, the vault interaction is no longer available and usable to The Ghoul during the grab/bite animation.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The tentacle vault speed bonus no longer occurs when The Ghoul is not in Enraged mode.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Killer effect now appears on the Survivor HUD when The Ghoul enters withdrawal mode directly.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Enraged mode Vignette now resets when having Enraged mode and getting Enraged mode again without the QTE by grab-attack tentacle vaulting to a Survivor across from a Pallet or Window.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul can no longer Kagune Leap twice on Survivors with an obstacle in the way.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul can no longer use a Kagune Leap briefly after cancelling the power.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul no longer stutters after a Kagune Leap.
Buff to Ghoul.
- A placeholder is no longer displayed in the prompt when vaulting a dropped pallet with The Ghoul's power.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's adjustment time end SFX no longer plays after the player cancels adjustment time early if cancelled after an invalid swing.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Tentacle Vault no longer creates a visual glitch after vaulting.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul is now able to perform Basic Attacks after pressing the Killer power input.
Buff to Ghoul.
- With lag, The Ghoul can no longer M1 directly after cancelling the power.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul can no longer perform a Basic Attack after falling from a Leap while in Enraged mode.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's power no longer breaks if stunned during a Kagune Leap slide.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Cancel Swing icon is no longer always displayed when not relevant.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Kagune Mark no longer remains visible on the Survivor portrait after being removed.
Buff to Ghoul.
So, let's tally all of those up. Anything that negatively affects Ghoul is a nerf, ergo a buff must be the opposite. For the purpose of making it fair, I have included anything that gives Survivors more information as well.
In total, we have 13 nerfs and 24 buffs. So, this patch actually buffed Ghoul according to your logic.
Or, we can use my logic and say that it's a bugfix patch. These things were never intended to begin with, ergo they aren't buffs or nerfs, merely corrections.
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My favorite comment today
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No. Buffs and nerfs do not have equal weight.
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A major issue with the AFK crows was the false flagging. Something many killers also pointed out the PTB tunnel system had. The difference is that false flagging in one would give you a sever disadvantage and punishment, and the other would give you a severe disadvantage and punishment - with an actual penalty. If we can admit that the anti-tunnel PTB was not performing correctly, we can also admit that the AFK system also not performing correctly.
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Even if the buffs only had half the weight, which I would contend that's too low, there's still nearly double the amount of buffs.
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Are you saying that if the following 6 changes are made, that it would be an overall buff for survivors, because it would be 1 nerf and 5 buffs?
- Generators now take 900 seconds to repair
- Survivors unhook 0.001 seconds faster
- Survivors vault 0.001 seconds faster
- Survivors run 0.001 seconds faster
- Survivors heal 0.001 seconds faster
- Survivors open chests 0.001 seconds faster
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Absurdism fallacy.
The Killer actually functioning properly is exceedingly important.
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Ah this is true, for both the survivor and killer side.
in this case if the killer is to strong its okay to being them down. Because if they overperform with "techs" or "bugs"(quotation bot for saying they arent things but more to emphasize the terminology) its not healthy for the game
So putting killer changes on the same level as other things is honestly not fair
Side tangent-When ever I find you, I find you in interesting debates or commenting on interesting ones.Also adding absurdism fallacy to vocabulary
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Oh my this is a bit wild?
900 seconds, making the survivor objective primarily impossible versus QoL and Balance changes is two diffeent worlds?
Ken can still do his objective with the changes, and often still perform well?
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Then maybe total progress done across all gens instead of completed gens? So gens can't be just left at 99% to avoid turning off the penalty.
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It's more that many of those bugs directly impacted Ghoul in a negative way. Sure, individually they may not be impactful, but together they are extremely important.
I would absolutely trade STBFL and PWYF tokens for a consistently functioning power.
-1 -
Valid and nice view.
Tho dont bring my STBFL tokena into this
Thats where I draw the line!
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the discrepancy in matches in crazy . You can have a chill survivor going for adept one game and a 4x bnp 1) meta perks , clock call out swfs using a map offering and everything they can bring as an advantage.
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It's still not explaining why certain killer behaviors should be delayed, but survivors can do whatever they want.
If players aren't supposed to "try so hard" in the beginning of the game, then why is it ok for survivors to pallet save at 0 hooks? Why aren't there rules for survivors, for them to also "play nice" in the beginning of the game?
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Trying playing nice as Survivor and see what happens.
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That's not relevant.
Why do people want rules to limit killer behavior in the early game, but not want rules to limit survivors in the early game?
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Because survivors can't potentially decide a match at the one minute mark. It's almost like one role has more power.
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Survivors absolutely can potentially decide a match at the one minute mark. It's what happens when a survivor decides to selfishly ragequit early.
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