http://dbd.game/killswitch
The Future of Legion in 2V8
So Legion have been removed from November's 2V8 and as they're my main, of course I'm a little sad about it. So I'll be playing whatever number of Survivor/Billy trials I need to to unlock the collectables before taking a short DBD break (since match-making goes to hell in 1V4 whenever 2V8 is live).
tl;dr version: What do you think Legion will be like when they return? I think Legion will come back as pallet shredder Legion.
Anyway, here are my thoughts on Legion in 2V8: I think you can make an argument that their power is actually kind of weak, not least because the last round of nerfs made them not much stronger than their 1V4 version. I will illustrate this with (admittedly very anecdotal) evidence. I played at least two trials where my other partner wasn't pulling their weight. One was as Legion with an AFK Billy. I got about 8 hooks (no kills) that game and the Survivors treated me like a joke. In contrast, I had a Billy game with a very ineffective Legion partner (which is bad Synergy to begin with). They barely used their frenzy and struggled to get downs, but we still won anyway because I was able to send enough Survivors to cages to keep the pressure on. That's not me tooting my own horn because I'm a cracked Billy, btw. It's simply because he's a very strong Killer and 2V8 has absolutely no match-making whatsoever. Anytime I was paired with a competent and decently strong partner, we would win most of our games. Personally, I think the wild and virtually non-existent matchmaking is the only thing keeping 2V8 from being a miserable sweatfest for Survivors. If you play this mode late at night when the KWFs are out in force, the Survivors will have a rough time no matter what Killers are in play.
The fact that Billy can carry a round of 2V8 and Legion cannot proves they're really just a support Killer. So if you take the "balance" argument at face value, this would make Legion the first Killer to be removed from 2V8 because the other Killers are way too strong. They have the strengths to capitalise on Legion's ability to spread injuries far too successfully. Obviously, that's a very silly argument to be making.
But what about the problematic Legion + Oni combo? I never matched with an Oni once. So this is a KWF problem, not a Legion problem. The truth is, we all know Legion have been removed because they have a lot of vocal haters that will not accept any version of this Killer in 2V8. With that in mind, my question is this: What do you think Legion's power will be like when (if?) they return to 2V8? What version of Legion would be acceptable enough to make some (if not all) of the complaints go away?
I'd even welcome some good faith suggestions from Legion haters, so long as you don't argue they shouldn't be there at all for being fundamentally "broken". It's a busted silly mode full of busted silly things, so that's not a good reason imo. I just don't buy that argument at all. If you want a balanced mode, 2V8 is not for you. None of the Killers or Survivor classes are balanced. 2V8 is so full of ridiculous overpowered things that it's frankly silly to single out Legion in this respect. They wouldn't make my top ten list of overpowered things in 2V8. This isn't a Lights Out situation where their power goes against the spirit of the mode (they were a genuine disaster in Lights Out).
Here's what I think BHVR might do:
- Legion can now down Survivors on their 4th Frenzy hit. This allows them to get more downs on their own, as well as to generate some pressure for their partner (but no more than a hit and run Wraith or a Huntress could in a similar amount of time). They can no longer reach speeds where they are near impossible to stun out of their power.
- Some combination of old Scratched Ruler, Mischief List, Iri Button (maybe also Mural Sketch) could be their add-ons. Legion have a reduced Frenzy fatigue (perhaps 2 seconds). This will give them more strength in the 1V1, else they'll have no ability to down Survivors with all those extra pallets on the map. This will also allow them to support the other Killer more as a pallet shredder than as an injury generator.
- A new Enfury Killer class to be added so that this new pallet shredding chase Legion can be more effective.
This would move them away from a pure support killer with no chase power and no anti-loop to a similar spot on the 2V8 roster to Wraith. I don't know if any of this is what BHVR have in mind or if this version would be just as hated as the last, I do think if they can no longer be a support character, then they need more lethality of their own.
Comments
-
Legion is just problematic killer in 2v8 because he is weak alone but very strong when paired with another killer and especialy if this killer is some stronger one like blight,oni,huntress, 2v8 wraith (wraith alone is mid to weaker c-tier but he has slaped breaking and vaulting addons,speed addons and reducing uncloak addons which make him quite hard to go against than normal wesker with 2 dashes and his chase potencial with getting first hit are huge compare to normal wraith),nurse, spirit and more all these killers dont have problem with getting hits on survivors and in 2v8 their kits are stronger and adjusted to deal with more pallets,stronger loops and especialy more survivors which in combination with killer (legion) that can injure 4 to 8 survivors in one frenzy go is very hard to play against no to mention if you are duo with friend on coms legion wont just injure many surviors making them oneshot but he gets and lot of info from killer instinct which is huge information for other killer you wont get this on any other killer not even on nemesis or wesker with their cures.
I dont think the 1v4 legion would be good option he is maybe slower in frenzy but he just have to injure 4 survviors to get 5 hit as instadown that cant be blocked by anything which yould make him same pain as now legion and plague arent not good killers for 2v8 mode. Look at hillbilly he has instadown and strong power but he isnt problematic as legion because the instadown is just for him and his power is harder to use than legions.
3 -
Honestly, I agree as a former Susie main. The way I see it, the problem with The Legion is that The Legion exists in the first place. 2v8 or 1v4 doesn't matter. Survivors HATE The Legion. So I don't really see anything whatsoever that BHVR can do to fix the problem of The Legion in 2v8, much less 1v4.
13 -
Man literally asks for suggestions/ideas and starts getting mass downvoted... these forums are really starting to suck. Getting real tired of the undercover popularity contests going on around here.
Kudos to the guys above who actually took the time to write an actual response.
In terms of a suggestion, my suggestion for 2v8 Legion is: -
- Give him his 4 hits and 5th hit down as he has in normal mode.
- Remove killer instinct from him, but give him back scratch marks and blood splats.
- Give him Frank's Mix Tape basekit so he can kick gens for auras.
This would mean survivors can actually pay attention and hide from Legion, make it so scoring all 4 hits is something Legion actually earned. It also plays into the natural greater aura abilities of 2v8.
Because now none of their chains are free, you could even look at giving some combination of his add-ons as needed to make him a little better (like in the league of the Nurse, Wesker, Wraith, changes) : -
- Mischief List (1 second longer duration)
- Mural Sketch (0.08-0.32m/s additional speed for each hit)
- Scratched Ruler (5s faster revovery)
- Stab Wounds Study (4s aura after mend cure)
- Fuming Mix Tape gen aura effect (gen auras coloured based on progress)
- Iridescent Pin (Vaulting pallet breaks them)
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
The basis of the thread is how can Legion be brought back into 2v8 after their removal, with the agreed terms of the discussion being that Legion should not be excluded from the mode. There are plenty of people who voice that Legion should be removed from 2v8 and never brought back, refusing to entertain any discussion to the contrary.
To "argue in good faith" means to engage in a discussion with a genuine desire to understand others' perspectives, find common ground, and use honest logic and evidence, even if you disagree... suffice to say, the perspective Legion should be removed completely and not being willing to offer any compromise is indeed not arguing in good faith, and this thread would easily switch to a discussion about why Legion be just allowed in the mode, isbetad of a discussion of how they could be incorporated.
I don't see anything wrong with pointing out, getting ahead of those common arguments and points, and requesting argumentation that avoids this talking point, as it would otherwise derail and distract from the threads purpose the OP wants to discuss.
And to add some additional context, I do believe downvotes are a blight on these forums, and never use them myself. Down votes discourage discussion , and there are plenty of people don't talk or debate, they just ratio opinions they don't like. Even a complex and multi layered opinion can be broken down to a simple "nah" with this system... and when I posted to this thread the ratio was 6 to 1. 6 to 2 after I added my own vote.
As the saying goes, a person is smart, people are dumb panicky idiots who get swept along with the crowd. The meaning being, you can have a intelligent discussion with a person, but you can't with a mob, and downvotes allow people to be easily mobbed.
0 -
Sounds like he's being abused like Skull Merchant. Not even that good in 2v8 and every survivor screams out to remove him. I've played as and against their performance was never as good as the other killers. Legion is good at getting injuries out but not downing them. Paired with Oni? Also not that good. While oni is in his power state he can't pick up anyone so what good is Legion and Oni power when everyone is injured? They just M1 killers at that point.
-5 -
wild take, good luck
2 -
Well they are putting an addon to test their proposed 2v8 changes in the test beta 3 day from now, so… we could try that out and give feedback based on what they propose? That seems like a good start
0 -
0
-
I did say why I consider the argument they should be removed to be in bad faith, because there are other Killers that are equally as busted still in the mode (except in their case they happen to be busted from a 1V1 perspective). Yes, it's true that a Wesker/Nurse/Blight can clean up after Legion has injured half the lobby. But if you pair Legion with a Trapper or a Ghostie, their power is not nearly as effective. Saying Legion shouldn't be in 2V8 because other much stronger Killers are present is not a reasonable argument, imo. I think restricting Legion from using their power with a lengthy cool down is not a great way to go, either. A solution has to be found that preserves what Legion enjoyers love about the Killer (running fast and vaulting stuff).
Yeah, I was hoping the thread would not be derailed by people saying they shouldn't be in the mode at all. It's fair if you believe that, but there's no discussion to be had if that's what you believe. Better to just stay out of it. I also consider that argument to essentially boil down to "I don't like this Killer". Perhaps that's unfair of me, but it tends to come from the people who say they dislike Legion in 1V4 as well. The way some go on, you would think they were going up against Tatariu level Legions in every trial but that wasn't at all the case for me. I played against and alongside a lot of terrible Legions that had plenty of counter play (I stunned one Legion out of their power 3 times with the same pallet that I kept rebuilding). These players are presumably queuing up as Legion because they like the Killer and they should have the opportunity to play as their preferred Killer, just the same as anyone else. And if the Legion is good, then why should that matter? That's not a good argument either, since I found 2V8 to be a very rough Survivor experience if the Killers actually knew how to play, regardless of what Killers we were up against.
It's also kind of depressing to see a silly and fundamentally unserious mode like 2V8 get bogged down by the same discussions around balance as 1V4 but here we are, anyway. If I can accept 3 dash Wesker and turbo Oni, as stupid as they are in 2V8, why can't others accept Legion being a decent support role Killer?
These are all good suggestions. Thank you for contributing. Hopefully we will get something along these lines when Legion returns.
2 -
If he is with oni than oni doesnt even need to hit anyone because he can get power through legions progress with his frenzy, more injured survivors spawn blood orbs which means more sauce for his power, oni cant pick up or he will loose power and yes everyone is onshot anyway but he can still move very fast and slug (even the fact survivors can get up slugging in 2v8 is still very effective, best class for getting up is escapist because he has shortes cooldown on his power the longer the cooldown is like guides 90 seconds than you are on the ground longer if you dont have your power ready). Oni alone is strong killer and with legion he just has power way often than with other killers which is big deal when everyone is basicaly oneshot and oni will slug and preasure everyone across the map with his fast mobility. Another thing with legion (but this applyes to every killer) is the fact that legion with other killer when they are on coms he can use frenzy for its kiler instinct and tell the other killer where is who and no you cant denny it by lockers so its huge deal when two killers play togeather on coms as legion and oni, another bs is legion and nurse thats like one good play from nurse or mistake from survivor and you are oneshot most of the match, legion is just very strong with other killers that can get hits fast or have strong powers and get them often even the weaker killers like nemesis who is super slow in 2v8 can be more effective when he gets tier 2 and just breaks pallet and m1 injured survivor than hitting him 2 times with tenticle (he will if the survivor is on strong loop but in general its better to m1 as nemy when you buddy is legion). Probably worst killer that dont get that much from legion is like slinger.
0
