Krasue needs her leech reworked to be meaningful
We all remember how insanely obnoxious her tunneling was, and no one should want to go back to that... the removal of leech on hook was a quick change that resolved a serious problem quickly...
However this has resulted in Krasue's leech being effectively non-existent. You eat a mushroom once in a blue moon, probably once in wvery 3 games vs. Krasue, and you otherwise just don't care about it unless you're in chase. The green mushrooms should be a regular interaction in her kit, and the ability to eat on the move gave some interesting potential for some leech mind games... but it all just doesn't matter cause how you get leeched off a single hit, then into getting mowed down by her head form before you can even put the fungus to your lips.
Recap
As a refresher of how her Infection works currently: -
- Leeched has 2 stages each 100 charges.
- Leeched 1 allows Survivors to be damaged by Intestinal Whip.
- Leeched 2 causes a healthy survivor to become injured, Survivor becomes broken.
- Regurgitate grants 100 charges of leech, cannot exceed leeched 1.
- Intestinal Whip grants 34 charges of leech, cannot exceed leeched 1.
- Passive leech rate while in not Leeched is 0c/s (only gained by Regugitate or Intestinal Whip)
- Passive leech rate while in Leeched 1 is 1.665c/s (or 60s) to reach Leeched 2.
- Eating a Green Fungus removes leeched at 5c/s (or 20s per leeched stage).
- Leeched is removed completely when hooked.
You can see this heavily locks Krasue into a "leech and chase down" kind of gameplay. Effectively you just fish for a hit with Regurgitate, and once you get that hit, just run down with Head form. There is no kind of passive macro game really with this setup, the fungus is basically a non player in this equation.
Proposal
Here's what I would propose for Krasue to make her generally more interesting to play (with meaningful decisions to make surrounding her potential macro) and play against (where Survivors have to do stuff about their infection and arent just tagged and run down 24/7).
- Make Krasue standard form 4.4m/s: The spit has an auto track, but only works off appropriate surfaces. It's pretty easy to hit in some locations, tricky in others, and the direct shot/ricochet mind games could be cool if Krasue was like a normal ranged killer seeking angles while spitting.
- Being hit by either Regurgitate or Intestinal Whip passively builds leech at the standard 1.665c/s while not leeched: Body blocking is the main issue Krasue faces, and hitting someone who body blocks doesn't mean anything unless you fully commit. A passive gain would at least mean the Survivor has to take the decision to body block seriously. Being hit by anything starts the passive build up of Leech.
- Regurgitate grants 65 charges infection progress: Reduced down from 100 charges, this would mean the Survivor can try to eat a mushroom in chase, and the Krasue can either switch forms to follow up hit with the head form, or spit again with regurgitate, based on personal preference/map to get her power rolling.
- Regurgitate hits are now not capped at Leeched 1: Hits with Regurgitate can now exceed Leeched 1 and roll over to Leeched 2.
- Being hooked reduces the Survivors current leech level by 80%: This results in the Survivors leech progress (assumimg between 100 leech and 200 leech when hooked) being reduced to between 20 and 40 leech. With the revised numbers, takes pretty much the same investment to tunnel as now with the removal, but Survivors DO still need to deal with the leech.
This I feel would make the leech a meaningful part of her kit, instead of the kind of weird busy work that it is now. Leeching a Survivor while you go for another is actually meaningful now and trying to get your spit as a 4.4m/s killer generally makes her more interesting, and makes her rapid fire Regurgitates a little more sensible at her base slower speed.
I feel this varies up the Krasue's approach to each Survivor encounter, and actually makes playing around Survivor leech progress meaningful, instead of just Spit repeatedly then switch to head and chase down. She is instead creating more factors to think about for both sides, instead of the single minded 1 track Krasue currently is. She can go for a stronger infection with repeated regurgitate hits, hit 2 Survivors at once and be rewarded for doing so, hit a fast regurgitate and leave as needed, and commit to downs if she pleases I'm head form
Her tunnel threat is about the same as it is now, maybe slightly weaker in fact, as she will typically need more than just a spit to go after a Survivor agian, especially they are holding a shroom. This would allow Survivors to bring mushrooms (or grab one early) and then body block for their teammate to prevent the tunnel, but in turn making themselves an easy target for the 4.4 Krasue spit as an easier/juicier target without a shroom.
It looks a lot healthier and interactive overall to me.
Comments
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This idea does solve the issue of Leeched being basically just a roadblock.
I like it, but I do see a small side problem: as Regurgitate has a very fast cooldown and Krasue can recover fast from it, it may end up creating a strategy of spitting at survivors from point blank/using some maps large amount of geometry to quickly shred through health states by using Regurgitate over and over and then just M1 downing.
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Yo lad!
That was a concern I did have initially, but when I thought about it more, I realised I have often had an easier time juking the Regurgitate than her Intestinal Whip, I have actual dodged her Regurgitate quite few times... unless she has something to bounce it off, its a tricky shot at a number of tiles... Once she has her leech however, I have rarely lasted long at all against her Head form. I might beat the whip once, maybe twice, but any more than that, I'm struggling, and it's so fast, the relative time is a punishing.
Meanwhile at 4.4 in base form, she needs at least 3 Regurgitate hits to reach the max leech 200 charges efficiently to get the broken/health state effect... which is a lot... She is also much more vulnerable to hold W in this form, and likely has to switch to catch up, whivh as well as spawning fungi, is giving the Survivor more opportunity to decide where they want to go to try and avoid her projectiles, coupled with the facther m1 down capacity is dimished heavily. Trying to go for a triple regurgitate, as I say, maybe gives a chance to try to eat a mushroom.
I was actually quite concerned this was an overnerf as I was putting it together... I'm just hoping the leech mushroom slowdown would be enough compensation for the areas of her kit where she is a little more deficient... 😅
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I've played Krasue a lot. The proposal of her being 4.4 is fine, but I don't think she needs multiple reg. hits to inflict leech one. The nerfed autoaim is sometimes pretty inconsistent and direct hits are way harder mid looping. I think the leech 2 is overall pointless to have, because it's just punishment for people who ignore it long enough. At the same point though I don't like the idea of spamming reg to force someone into leech 2. What I would do:
→ Increase time it takes to reach leech 2 from 60s to 70s
→ If leech 2 is gained, survivors can't decrease leech meter by eating glowing fungi anymore and leech will only be removed when hooked.
→ Decrease glowing fungi max count to 4 so survivors actually have to run for them in order to use them, currently there are 6 and if 4 survivors hold one, 2 will be respawning.
→ Chicken head will still increase fungi count by 2
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Fair play that man, given you play her, I do will concede the changes I propose removes a lot of her current identity... I don't see her really after the remove leech on hook change, and I gave a suggestion that makes her more interesting to me to consider playing her as a more unique chase oriented infection killer.
Her current version to me is decidedly uninteresting. You spit, you tag, you change, you chase as a vaulting 4.8 killer with an easy to control and very deadly lunge. No one bothers to remove the infection, cause you get instantly full infected, and it's removed automatically when you get hooked. You're better off moving round the loop instead of trying to use a shroom in chase, and you don't need one out of chase. So the mechanic is pointless. Your changes don't assist that, in fact they just further reinforce it.
The regurgitate far as I can see is effectively just busy work, a minor stumble block to limit her very strong chase power from being on all the time.
With my changes the only thing that really changes is you Whip someone as you find them to start their leech, then go back to normal form to try for the regurgitate to take them up to 100 leech. Now you have options, you can keep going for regurgitate and try to injure as a 4.4 ranged spitter, or you can switch back to head form and go back to lunging, as a spit and a lunge is enough to take over 100.
This version also let's you run around in head form just tagging people to infect them, something that did nothing before, but now is actually viable. The whole thing becomes mot interesting.
However if you like her current iteration, then fair play, I'm happy to concede.
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Also to anyone downvoting, I would appreciate an explanation why if you'd be so kind?
I would happily debate with you, but you've currently given me nothing to work with... So to cover the only arguments I can think of:
- Don't want to have to land multiple hits. Plague seems to manage fine having to land multiple hits, and she's not got a movement speed steroid on demand. She has shorter range, no auto tracking, pretty much the same cooldown and a longer wind up time than Krasue... and she has to also down as an m1 killer afterwards, so I don't see an issue here.
- Don't want to deal with broken. It takes 3 hits of regurgitate to become broken. Again that's about the same as Plague, and unlike Plague, shrooms can be eaten on the move. Not to mention hitting you in Head form is probably faster. Once you're hooked, broken is removed as you go back to partial infection... so broken isn't really a game breaker... what difference is it being broken and injured and just being Injured if you're already in chase?
- This makes Krasue too weak. Again Plague seems to work perfectly fine, and I see no reason why this Krasue would struggle any more than Plague. We're introducing some slowdown mechanics and making body blocking less effective vs. Krasue too. Numbers can be always be tweaked, it's more the concept that matters.
- Krasue isn't about infection, that's Plague game. So she's just a dash/scamper killer with extra steps? I don't feel like that really makes her stand out amongst the myriad of other killers that do what she does already. The most striking part of her kit is the green fungi, which is clearly an important part of the characters lore/mythos, as is the leech mechanic... why have it at all if it doesn't matter for her power?
Other than that I don't know where the push back is coming from... She could be a nice midground between Plague and Wesker with these changes, where Plague is full infection gameplay, Wesker is mostly chase with a little infection, while Krasue is half infection, half chase...
If that vision is the wrong way, I'm interested in other ideas... but as it stands I can't escape the feeling her whole leech system feels kinda tacked on now it is removed when hooked, and she's otherwise just a 4.8 scamper bot with extra steps.
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I would compare this to old Chucky, Old Krasue was overtuned but now is somewhat fine. Surely with recent Myers there is no reason to play Chucky anymore, so I'll leave Krasue as she is to those few players who like the thai culture
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I'm 100 with you on Myers/Chucky.
Not so sure about the Thai culture statement though... considering I'm specifically asking for the elements of her kit that are derived from Thai culture actually become part of her kit, instead of little more than trial scenery...
She is at least passable... but she is very "eh..." in her current form. Very little unique or interesting about her. She basically plays like a non existent cooldown Unknown for a few seconds, looking for an environment bounce on her ranged shot, before becoming a 4.8m/s OG Scamper Chucky with no cooldown…
If the point of each killer is to be unique, Krasue is doing a pretty poor job given half her mechanics literally don't matter, and the ones that do are just jacked up versions of existing killers.
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There are very few unique killers, half of them are dash killers half of them are zoning killers. I don't agree that Krasue is not unique though. There are killers with much better dash abilities but not with third person camera. In term of loops she's more of 50/50 and her letahlity in term of 1v1 is not as good as some other killers have because at this point you close gap untill 5é/5é and so on. Not much things can change her to be more unique, and making her infection-based killer would make her more uninteresting as all you would do is spam reg and we have already enough range killers.
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I would like all killers having their own lunge length depends on their weapon and power type, as well as just fixing client priority on servers and textures on maps.
The perfect world where Blight stick does have smaller hit box, while Billy crouchtech fixed well… by making his hitbox actually feel like chainsaw.
Lunge killers having more kind of projection hit box, that “fade down” at the end of animation…
This tbh can add some variability to killer and giving a new breath to M1 killers for example :/ While you can use this mechanic as a natural way to tune down strong killers and rather encourage actual ability usage…
About Krasue: I think she is doomed either being miserable or broken. As well as Ghoul. Their core design extremely cheap and poor.
Post edited by tes on1 -
Yeah, the basic interaction with Krasue is a bit of a bland, basic formula dished out like the recent killers before her (typical metagame I suppose), and the increase in her m/s when in head form is just too quick to avoid, leaving the survivor with little to no room for counterplay or interaction, thus reducing her into another "flavor of the month" meta killer.
Make Krasue standard form 4.4m/s: The spit has an auto track, but only works off appropriate surfaces. It's pretty easy to hit in some locations, tricky in others, and the direct shot/ricochet mind games could be cool if Krasue was like a normal ranged killer seeking angles while spitting.
I would be all for an adjustment on her m/s, and also make her Regurgitate more of a linear projectile that isn't so quirky, but direct; something you can understand more than be a head scratcher hit.
Being hit by either Regurgitate or Intestinal Whip passively builds leech at the standard 1.665c/s while not leeched: Body blocking is the main issue Krasue faces, and hitting someone who body blocks doesn't mean anything unless you fully commit. A passive gain would at least mean the Survivor has to take the decision to body block seriously. Being hit by anything starts the passive build up of Leech.
I love passive abilities so much since they can essentially improve a player's general awareness/cognition.
Regurgitate grants 65 charges infection progress: Reduced down from 100 charges, this would mean the Survivor can try to eat a mushroom in chase, and the Krasue can either switch forms to follow up hit with the head form, or spit again with regurgitate, based on personal preference/map to get her power rolling.
Wholeheartedly agree. 100 charges off of a single Reg hit is a bit much. Though I would personally like 50/50 for Reg charges, only because I prefer the symmetry of it.
Regurgitate hits are now not capped at Leeched 1: Hits with Regurgitate can now exceed Leeched 1 and roll over to Leeched 2.
Would definitely promote a more Plague-esque kind of gameplay imo and Plague definitely heavily encourages player discernment during interactions.
Being hooked reduces the Survivors current leech level by 80%: This results in the Survivors leech progress (assumimg between 100 leech and 200 leech when hooked) being reduced to between 20 and 40 leech. With the revised numbers, takes pretty much the same investment to tunnel as now with the removal, but Survivors DO still need to deal with the leech.
Definitely gives Krasue room to prioritize other Survivors who don't have the leech, and not feeling like it's imperative to tunnel off hook. Everyone can be quickly leeched if they're not careful and plan accordingly. Again, another Plague-esque thing to do. lol
This I feel would make the leech a meaningful part of her kit, instead of the kind of weird busy work that it is now. Leeching a Survivor while you go for another is actually meaningful now and trying to get your spit as a 4.4m/s killer generally makes her more interesting, and makes her rapid fire Regurgitates a little more sensible at her base slower speed.
I feel this varies up the Krasue's approach to each Survivor encounter, and actually makes playing around Survivor leech progress meaningful, instead of just Spit repeatedly then switch to head and chase down. She is instead creating more factors to think about for both sides, instead of the single minded 1 track Krasue currently is. She can go for a stronger infection with repeated regurgitate hits, hit 2 Survivors at once and be rewarded for doing so, hit a fast regurgitate and leave as needed, and commit to downs if she pleases I'm head form
Her tunnel threat is about the same as it is now, maybe slightly weaker in fact, as she will typically need more than just a spit to go after a Survivor agian, especially they are holding a shroom. This would allow Survivors to bring mushrooms (or grab one early) and then body block for their teammate to prevent the tunnel, but in turn making themselves an easy target for the 4.4 Krasue spit as an easier/juicier target without a shroom.
It looks a lot healthier and interactive overall to me.
Definitely feel the shadow of Plague looming over these proposed adjustments. It 100% would encourage more interactions with all Survivors in the match and encourage/improve a player's awareness.
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As I said, Krasue got nerfed significantly, while Ghoul is still too powerfull for very low skill ceiling. There is no world where Krasue would be at Ghoul lvl. Her scampers last too long, so they are truly pointless, her mobility is the only powerfull aspect of her kit.
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She will stomp solo q still more likely. But. Average solo q.
Bodyblock her to protect infected survivor, and she becomes so harmless. I played against her even on her strongest period, and it was really stressful when no one help you. But I had match when player on her felt so miserable just by constant bodyblocking, first time I felt I am bullying someone in this game.
And that’s so ironic… so sfw more likely gonna feel better already having advantages, while solo suffering by default
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Yeah, I mean she's more managable in solo now. You have more time to react to her whip wind up, if she uses scamper you have a lot of time to step forward and revault tech and crouch tech also work against her.
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