http://dbd.game/killswitch
Kaneki has no business in being 4.6
With the Blight nerfs, some killers really need this change too, Kaneki being one of them. Mobility killers shouldn't be this fast. The fact he can cut pathing, cancelling with no existing cooldown and being a 4.6 killer is just ridiculous.
I know there's a lot of post complaining about Ghoul, but is because this killer is not okay. They also need to delete his hitscan for good, not matter how many times they "nerf it", it will never feel good until is gone completely.
Comments
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Yeah base speed changes and hitscan removal would be amazing changes
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I'm not a Ghoul main by any means but I imagine there are plenty of tiles where getting a cutoff is unrealistic against a good player no? Breaking his knees and tentacles at the same time sounds awful. Why would anyone play him over someone like Wraith then?
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With the proposed changes above he still has free bamboozle ad on which can be used for them frustrating tiles, same with the vault to break pallet ad on he has (still better then other killers who are forced to use perk slots for same effect)
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So you want to substitute perceived 4.6 m/s cheese with add-on cheese (yippee let's make another killer add-on reliant when they're already kinda add-on reliant already)? I don't get it.
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Its better then him having both cheese options. If you don't want to use the add on slots you can use perk slots for same effect but with perks. Its different to being ad on reliant because if you don't want to use the ad ons, use bamboozle and dissolution.
This killer is horrible from a versing perspective that's why I'm keen to see any significant changes because for me personally ghoul ruins this game more then tunneling does.0 -
Then why don't we just get rid of the problematic, 0 thought add-ons (and perks, it's high time Dissolution is looked at…they could easily just delay the pallet break by ~5 seconds after a fast vault if they wanted to keep the core concept) first instead of doing as drastic of a change as reducing the movement speed of a killer that doesn't directly down with their power (unlike Blight) and has to earn their downs through normal M1 gameplay, survivor misplay (leaving a loop with no game plan), or skillful bodyblocking cutoffs (that typically have some amount of counterplay)?
I just don't think Ghoul is that much of a problem anymore after the revault change. On the stronger side yes, but mediocre Ghouls kinda get dunked on if you and your team know what you're doing unless the map is really favorable for them (like a bunch of disconnected 50/50 pallets that don't do anything unless you get the stun). The problem I've noticed is that most teams are just bad at keeping up with the macro. Really, really bad. They fail to heal at the right time, they aren't mindful of where they go down, they don't pay attention to chase indicators, they don't account for info perks, they waste time like it's 2016 DbD. That's a problem non-specific to Ghoul that BHVR needs to focus on somehow, since clearly a good chunk of the playerbase is incapable/unwilling of properly learning on their own.
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Yeah I honestly don't mind doing ad on changes and leave the movement speed. Movement speed I care less about honestly and agree it gives him more speed for more skillful bodyblocking plays, main appeal I saw in these ghoul changes was removing the hitscan hit.
Its the main feature of his kit that I dislike about ghoul combined with the stand still animation lock, If they only removed the hitscan and nothing else I think I would be happy.3 -
Is dissolution actually problematic?
Maybe it is to strong on certain killers but I never got the perk to do anything. Even on dredge itself who in theory could tp back to the side of the pallet where the surf is and then land a hit I never got it to work.
Either they instantly vault which is less then three seconds after the hit or they run through you to another loop cause they lost collision.
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I was going to say something about since he can't directly down with the m2 attack, hed have the faster movement speed relying on m1 hits for downs. But then i thought of stuff like blight/demogorgon/hag/singularity etc and got rather confused as to how they decide on a killer's speed, like why is hag slower while trapper is faster etc (maybe because he has to pickup his traps and hag doesnt). Ghoul just stands out because not only can he just leap behind you very quickly, he also moves as fast as possible after landing so that he usually hits you before you reach something if you haven't alredy, but without that speed would he be able to get half the downs he does alredy?
Consider if legion was a slow as huntress for example, he has similar mobility and free injury but can't directly down with the power in a 1 on 1 chase. If he was slowed down to huntress speed where he could be looped around a rock for half a generator, than he'd be way too easy to counter. And kaneki notorious for catching up with people holding W but cannot down with his power, and has a minimum range to use his leaps, so he excells in the open, but gets looped in tight spaces, making him slower would make him very easy to loop in tight spaces with no power besides vaulting and slow speed.
Post edited by ShanoaLegendaryPlz on4 -
Yeah he'd be awful where he is currently weakest as a 4.4 m1 killer, but awful players just want to shift-w for brainless easy chases and hate anything that counters that and want it gutted. They'd hate his power being able to down more though lol, which it would have to as 4.4.
He's the easiest strong killer to actually loop, even easier now you can brainlessly re-vault a pallet because its easier, but its obvious people don't want to actually learn how to play properly, just run from pallet to pallet to pallet and think they are good at the game.
Now that they nerfed blight and gave survivors an inch they are going to double down and try and take a mile. It's always the way, its never enough..
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I hate Kaneki a lot, he is by far my most hated killer in DBD history.
But he would be terrible as 110 killer imo.He is managable when pallets are not free downs anymore. Don't take me wrong, he is still very annoying, but at least I don't have need to surrender every game. (still limit how many times I want to play against him in one session tho)
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Blight was changed to 4.4m/s because he can down with his power, encouraging more use of his power.
But unlike Blight, Ghoul can't down with his power. He's essentially an M1 killer when it comes to looping tiles. His power is not good in chase unless you know how to do cutoffs.
His only strength in chase is catching up to you (like wesker players if they don't know hugtech) so you make no distance after he breaks a pallet or you use an exhaustion perk. Forcing you to play the next tile instead of going for distance.
The real issue is his vault speed while enraged. A lot of ghoul players use this to vault pallets because it's easy with no downside. He doesn't need to be nerfed to 4.4m/s. Instead make enraged vault speed slower so ghoul players are forced to play the tile like normal.
Technically ghoul doesn't NEED the enraged vault speed nerf since it basically punishes survivors that pre drop pallets in chase but a large majority of survivors don't know this and panic drop the pallet. But Ghoul players that heavily rely on this strategy is why I'm suggesting this nerf.
Oh btw idk if this is a bug but the ghoul can't injure after vaulting a pallet anymore so you're able to do a revault much easier now
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Yeah that's fair. I think removing the hitscan, movement lock element is ultimately what they should do. I don't see it happening any time soon though, whereas they could effectively delete something like centipede from the game like they did that one Houndmaster add-on if they wanted to with minimal effort.
It's really dumb on specific killers. Dredge is ironically one of the worst to use it simply because of the terror radius condition making it useless during nightfall.
Krasue's a perfect example where because of her movement speed + dash attack range in head form you're kinda just dead no matter what you do sometimes. I think it could be made a lot more interesting (and a little more fair) with the whole delayed break idea I mentioned (think Vorpal Sword on Vecna but it's triggered by the survivor's actions). Essentially instead of having it so that vaulting a pallet is instant death because the killer is on top of the survivor, we introduce the possibility that they might be able to make it to another tile if the killer is just barely out of reach/misses an attack, forcing them to go around or wait for the break. It would objectively be a nerf to the perk with that change alone, but the value of "this pallet is no longer an issue" would remain. And then they could even tweak it in other ways to make it more usable on a wider variety of killers (make it proximity instead of TR based so…you know, the killer that it belongs to can use it, increase the duration it's active so slower killers can more reliably make use of it, etc).
Also I think it'd be neat to play a killer like Deathslinger, hit a shot on someone that recently vaulted a pallet with Dissolution, then drag them toward the pallet just for it to break as you're reeling them into it. Or maybe you throw/slam someone as Wesker and they hit the pallet as it breaks. Fun little dopamine hit things. But that's neither here nor there.
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Ghoul is able to cut people off with power between loops and even in a few select larger loops, sure. But he's still an M1 killer at his core that relies heavily on basic M1 gameplay on lots of tiles, mixed with some vaulting with using power. Making him 4.4 would absolutely destroy the character in the worst way. You would still get cut off between tiles if you don't know how to path between resources, and he'd still be able to cut you off with power on bigger tiles, except now most M1 tiles would be unplayable for the Ghoul.
I'd rather they completely fixed the revault bug that survivors can still do, but then slowed down the power vault just a little bit, and also remove the "mark" mechanic where survivors have to either get downed or cleanse their mending before the Ghouls enraged timer begins to tick down. It's dumb that a survivor drops a god-pallet and then gets rewarded with a free revault if the Ghoul does the right thing and vaults after them. What should have forced them to leave tile, now instead forces ghoul to waste time and kick the pallet anyway because the survivor clipped into his model and vaulted back over the pallet. It's unintuitive, makes no sense, and makes predropping without thinking the best choice always since you can just vault back if Ghoul ever dares vault after you.
Slow Ghouls enraged vault speed down a bit, give him full collision the whole time he vaults with power so he can't be clipped through at any point, and make the rules for the auto-injure much, much clearer: If you touch Ghoul right after he has vaulted in any way, you get hit. No nonsense, doesn't matter if you manage to clip through his model or not, touch him and you get hurt, the play after Ghoul vaults after you should always be to run away. But to add counterplay, the enraged vault should be slower overall. This way, if you use the vault on a smaller tile, you don't actually gain any real distance and simply reset the tile, extending the chase. Use it on a bigger tile or god-pallet, and it forces the survivor to leave the tile and look for something else, since they won't have the distance to try and loop the same tile again, and they can't revault without getting hit.
I think one of the biggest pain points playing against Ghoul is how easy it is for him to stay enraged the whole match. It means that even if you do play well against him and have a full minute chase, he will still have his entire enraged timer remaining when he downs you and goes for your teammates, and I feel like that gives him too much uptime for enraged mode. It's simply too easy to keep it active.
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I don't think THAT is the ideal solution.
Ghoul cannot down with his power. Until that's the case, him being 4,4 is out of the question.
Reducing his hitscan, fine, even removing vaulting with his power if fine, but he cannot be 4,4 unless he's able to down with his power, which no one wants.
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