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Why do people hate NOED so much?
Comments
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@fluffybunny said:
NOED carries weak killers the same way DS carries weak survivors. I personally don't hate it so much as getting annoyed by how it can encourage and pardon poor plays.Basically this. There's also no way to tell if the killer has NOED or if a non-obsessed survivor has D-Strike. They're both badly designed.
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@Mc_Harty said:
@fluffybunny said:
NOED carries weak killers the same way DS carries weak survivors. I personally don't hate it so much as getting annoyed by how it can encourage and pardon poor plays.Basically this. There's also no way to tell if the killer has NOED or if a non-obsessed survivor has D-Strike. They're both badly designed.
To be fair, you can usually assume NOED if the killer is weak (resorts to camping/tunneling, does poorly in chases) or if the character is weak (hi, Freddy). Non-obsession survivor D-Strike isn't as bad as it once was, but that perk still needs a rework imo.
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@TrAiNwReCk said:
@ermsy said:
NuclearBurrito2 said:Not saying that NOED in particular is fine. But in general perks that give you a boost when you are losing are not problematic, however that is only true so long as the boost is less than the snowball from the fact that you are losing (or in otherwords you should never be MORE likely to win now that the survivors have made additional progress). Those gens should always hurt you more than they help you, but that does not mean they can't help you, hence end game builds.
like, a survivor is very likely to escape once the gate is powered, not as likely if the killer has NOED, but even in that case they are still more likely to escape compared to when the gate isn't powered.
DS is problematic because you are more likely to survive a chase after using it compared to when you were initially injured or downed
Or in otherwords a perk can turn a point of failure into a point of lesser failure and still be fair. However it is not fair for a perk to turn a point of failure into a point of success.
Keep in mind that even without NOED it is possible for the killer to win after the gates are powered. Thus having a boost that makes it possible to win is still a point of failure as the gates being powered still makes it highly possible to lose compared to before then.
(I consider blood warden and remember me to both be stronger than NOED in this context since they are more effective at letting you win the game after the gates are powered)
I agree that ds is much more of a problem compared to noed as respecting the possibility of a noed as a survivor is usually enough to escape. You just have to take ds most of the time and hope you can resolve the second chase quickly, if not you lose.
I don't believe remember me and blood warden is stronger. Although Remember me is very strong but promotes tunneling and blood warden is too situational, survivors can make themselves scarce if they know about it and you have to time the hook.
This is only my opinion
The only reason why NOED is a problem at all is because of over altruistic survivors.
- Survivor (A) got hooked
- Survivor (B) opens gate
- (B) is really good or has borrowed time "I can get my mate easy, no way the killer can stop us!"
- (A) i'm getting rescued "This is awesome we are both going to escape!"
Survivor (B) runs FEARLESSLY towards the killer knowing the plan "there's no way I can be stopped, the gate is right next to us as well!"
Killer swings INSTANT DOWN
Survivor A & B "You trash, noob, no good blah blah blah"
The killer was at least going to get that 1 kill, and instead of escaping your friend went in for the save. Survivors should play with some sort of fear saying "Screw this I don't want to take a chance, i'm out of here" NOED changes that possibility entirely and survivors hate that. Like players who camp with insidious. Never ever ever, when facing leather face and see a survivor hooked in the basement will I ever go for the save. And for players who rush in without thinking twice getting mad that they were just downed by an insidious camping leather face only have them selves to blame for charging in thinking it's just like any other game. Survivors blame yourself, not the perks. I have died due to stupidity and instead of coming to complain in the forums I have tried to learn, to accept and work around it.
I will happily struggle till the time runs out to give my team time to gen rush a camping killer, but HATE when I see them run downstairs to the rescue without any thought of their fate.
Only my experience and opinion.
In my experience, survivors have issue with it because it can turn a 1k into a 3/4k. The killer could do poorly and still net a win with a perk's help.
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A lot of survivors will even admit they are to lazy to search for it yet claim its in so many of their matches. I think what angers them more than the 1 shot is they could have prevented it but they figured the dull totem wasnt worth the time.0
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@fluffybunny said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
@ermsy said:
NuclearBurrito2 said:Not saying that NOED in particular is fine. But in general perks that give you a boost when you are losing are not problematic, however that is only true so long as the boost is less than the snowball from the fact that you are losing (or in otherwords you should never be MORE likely to win now that the survivors have made additional progress). Those gens should always hurt you more than they help you, but that does not mean they can't help you, hence end game builds.
like, a survivor is very likely to escape once the gate is powered, not as likely if the killer has NOED, but even in that case they are still more likely to escape compared to when the gate isn't powered.
DS is problematic because you are more likely to survive a chase after using it compared to when you were initially injured or downed
Or in otherwords a perk can turn a point of failure into a point of lesser failure and still be fair. However it is not fair for a perk to turn a point of failure into a point of success.
Keep in mind that even without NOED it is possible for the killer to win after the gates are powered. Thus having a boost that makes it possible to win is still a point of failure as the gates being powered still makes it highly possible to lose compared to before then.
(I consider blood warden and remember me to both be stronger than NOED in this context since they are more effective at letting you win the game after the gates are powered)
I agree that ds is much more of a problem compared to noed as respecting the possibility of a noed as a survivor is usually enough to escape. You just have to take ds most of the time and hope you can resolve the second chase quickly, if not you lose.
I don't believe remember me and blood warden is stronger. Although Remember me is very strong but promotes tunneling and blood warden is too situational, survivors can make themselves scarce if they know about it and you have to time the hook.
This is only my opinion
The only reason why NOED is a problem at all is because of over altruistic survivors.
- Survivor (A) got hooked
- Survivor (B) opens gate
- (B) is really good or has borrowed time "I can get my mate easy, no way the killer can stop us!"
- (A) i'm getting rescued "This is awesome we are both going to escape!"
Survivor (B) runs FEARLESSLY towards the killer knowing the plan "there's no way I can be stopped, the gate is right next to us as well!"
Killer swings INSTANT DOWN
Survivor A & B "You trash, noob, no good blah blah blah"
The killer was at least going to get that 1 kill, and instead of escaping your friend went in for the save. Survivors should play with some sort of fear saying "Screw this I don't want to take a chance, i'm out of here" NOED changes that possibility entirely and survivors hate that. Like players who camp with insidious. Never ever ever, when facing leather face and see a survivor hooked in the basement will I ever go for the save. And for players who rush in without thinking twice getting mad that they were just downed by an insidious camping leather face only have them selves to blame for charging in thinking it's just like any other game. Survivors blame yourself, not the perks. I have died due to stupidity and instead of coming to complain in the forums I have tried to learn, to accept and work around it.
I will happily struggle till the time runs out to give my team time to gen rush a camping killer, but HATE when I see them run downstairs to the rescue without any thought of their fate.
Only my experience and opinion.
In my experience, survivors have issue with it because it can turn a 1k into a 3/4k. The killer could do poorly and still net a win with a perk's help.
No doubt the perk can swing things in the killers favor, but unless the other survivors are happily dancing in front of the killer at the very least 2 can get out if they jump on a gate until it's open and then leave.
Admittedly, back in the day when I used NOED, a game where I was so lucky to get 1 survivor on the hook before a gate was opened and they all escaped. Many games the other 3 would stay . . and keep messing around like they're going to outsmart me. All I want is at at least one kill, I was terrible back then. Nope here they come swarming the hook, ready to body block and all because they didn't walk out of the open gate ROFL.
I totally agree with you, but it has been in so many cases that survivors have a gate open. They can leave, but they chose to stay. Any time a survivor chooses to stay instead of leave, they need to get over it if they die.
I can see NOED as an anti borrowed time perk at the end game. Without NOED with 1 or more players going for the save to body block and the BT protecting the injured there is no way a killer is going to secure any kill. And survivors get to use borrowed time throughout the entire game.
Again, I agree with you that the perk can help get a massive snowball in an otherwise lost game, but 9/10 times the other survivors simply had to leave out the gate, but chose to stay. Their choice not to leave caused their death, not the perk they weren't counting on the killer having. The perk just made it possible.
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@NightmareReborn said:
I feel like people hate it because it rewards poor performance. I'd just make it so that survivors know the killer has noed when the last gen is popped rather when a survivor is hit. It would give extra warning to the survivors. Also that the NOED totem would be revealed in a small radius so you would have to spend 10 hrs finding it.I punish survivors all match and then top it off with a boot to the ass from NOED. Not sure why its assumed NOED only works when the killer was losing.
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@ermsy said:
TrAiNwReCk said:@NightmareReborn said:
I feel like people hate it because it rewards poor performance. I'd just make it so that survivors know the killer has noed when the last gen is popped rather when a survivor is hit. It would give extra warning to the survivors. Also that the NOED totem would be revealed in a small radius so you would have to spend 10 hrs finding it.
I don't care about NOED or DS. They both can be annoying to go up against, but I like your thoughts on players perception of the NOED perk.
* I feel like people hate it because it rewards poor performance
If this truly is the majority of players perception I as a killer who couldn't care if NOED stays or goes.
* Remove NOED for killers
* Remove hatch for survivors
NO MORE REWARDING ANYONE FOR BAD PERFORMANCEId agree to this
@fluffybunny since you mentioned poor play in one of your posts :-)
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Considering there are about 500 topics detailing why people hate this perk or that perk you could have used the search function instead of making the 501st one. But here we are.0
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@brokedownpalace said:
Considering there are about 500 topics detailing why people hate this perk or that perk you could have used the search function instead of making the 501st one. But here we are.Many people like to create their own personal thread of frustration. I look up old threads and surprised at some how they died out as some players have made some very good suggestions and arguments of all sorts, but they die with time.
No one wants to support someone else's died out frustration thread XD
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@TrAiNwReCk said:
@ermsy said:
TrAiNwReCk said:@NightmareReborn said:
I feel like people hate it because it rewards poor performance. I'd just make it so that survivors know the killer has noed when the last gen is popped rather when a survivor is hit. It would give extra warning to the survivors. Also that the NOED totem would be revealed in a small radius so you would have to spend 10 hrs finding it.
I don't care about NOED or DS. They both can be annoying to go up against, but I like your thoughts on players perception of the NOED perk.
* I feel like people hate it because it rewards poor performance
If this truly is the majority of players perception I as a killer who couldn't care if NOED stays or goes.
* Remove NOED for killers
* Remove hatch for survivors
NO MORE REWARDING ANYONE FOR BAD PERFORMANCEId agree to this
@fluffybunny since you mentioned poor play in one of your posts :-)
I actually wanted to reply to this after, but didn't want to be that person leaving a ton of replies in a row. QQ Hatch could use a rework so that it's more of a game of skill rather than often a gift to survivors, regardless of skill. Hatch isn't really a sign of poor play unless we're suggesting survivors should be treated as a unit. I've had many games where I've done all the gens or was the only one solid in a chase, so there's often a range of skill when regarding both solo and swf. It should be more of a process, though, that takes skill, but is doable with just one person, though.
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Survivors feel it "robs them" of their victory.
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@fluffybunny said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
@ermsy said:
TrAiNwReCk said:@NightmareReborn said:
I feel like people hate it because it rewards poor performance. I'd just make it so that survivors know the killer has noed when the last gen is popped rather when a survivor is hit. It would give extra warning to the survivors. Also that the NOED totem would be revealed in a small radius so you would have to spend 10 hrs finding it.
I don't care about NOED or DS. They both can be annoying to go up against, but I like your thoughts on players perception of the NOED perk.
* I feel like people hate it because it rewards poor performance
If this truly is the majority of players perception I as a killer who couldn't care if NOED stays or goes.
* Remove NOED for killers
* Remove hatch for survivors
NO MORE REWARDING ANYONE FOR BAD PERFORMANCEId agree to this
@fluffybunny since you mentioned poor play in one of your posts :-)
I actually wanted to reply to this after, but didn't want to be that person leaving a ton of replies in a row. QQ Hatch could use a rework so that it's more of a game of skill rather than often a gift to survivors, regardless of skill. Hatch isn't really a sign of poor play unless we're suggesting survivors should be treated as a unit. I've had many games where I've done all the gens or was the only one solid in a chase, so there's often a range of skill when regarding both solo and swf. It should be more of a process, though, that takes skill, but is doable with just one person, though.
The more posts the more info shared. It's always good to receive feedback. We all hope for opinionated feedback, not that hateful stuff.
I wasn't trying at a real balance to the game, but you're not the only one to mention NOED rewards poor performance or something similar. So I thought the hatch would be a good resemblance to NOED and unrealistically would cancel each other out in the rewards for being bad department.
Agreed, because you and your team only got 2+ gens done doesn't mean you are bad by any means. Though if a killer keeps good pressure, secures quick hooks and gets kills before gens can power the gates I say they deserve the kills. Just as a 4 man survivor team. It's not fair to any of them if the killer manages to get 1 survivor due to NOED if they all managed to survive only to power the gates and get dumped on. I feel they are of similar weight in the value they have to both sides.
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@TrAiNwReCk said:
@fluffybunny said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
@ermsy said:
NuclearBurrito2 said:Not saying that NOED in particular is fine. But in general perks that give you a boost when you are losing are not problematic, however that is only true so long as the boost is less than the snowball from the fact that you are losing (or in otherwords you should never be MORE likely to win now that the survivors have made additional progress). Those gens should always hurt you more than they help you, but that does not mean they can't help you, hence end game builds.
like, a survivor is very likely to escape once the gate is powered, not as likely if the killer has NOED, but even in that case they are still more likely to escape compared to when the gate isn't powered.
DS is problematic because you are more likely to survive a chase after using it compared to when you were initially injured or downed
Or in otherwords a perk can turn a point of failure into a point of lesser failure and still be fair. However it is not fair for a perk to turn a point of failure into a point of success.
Keep in mind that even without NOED it is possible for the killer to win after the gates are powered. Thus having a boost that makes it possible to win is still a point of failure as the gates being powered still makes it highly possible to lose compared to before then.
(I consider blood warden and remember me to both be stronger than NOED in this context since they are more effective at letting you win the game after the gates are powered)
I agree that ds is much more of a problem compared to noed as respecting the possibility of a noed as a survivor is usually enough to escape. You just have to take ds most of the time and hope you can resolve the second chase quickly, if not you lose.
I don't believe remember me and blood warden is stronger. Although Remember me is very strong but promotes tunneling and blood warden is too situational, survivors can make themselves scarce if they know about it and you have to time the hook.
This is only my opinion
The only reason why NOED is a problem at all is because of over altruistic survivors.
- Survivor (A) got hooked
- Survivor (B) opens gate
- (B) is really good or has borrowed time "I can get my mate easy, no way the killer can stop us!"
- (A) i'm getting rescued "This is awesome we are both going to escape!"
Survivor (B) runs FEARLESSLY towards the killer knowing the plan "there's no way I can be stopped, the gate is right next to us as well!"
Killer swings INSTANT DOWN
Survivor A & B "You trash, noob, no good blah blah blah"
The killer was at least going to get that 1 kill, and instead of escaping your friend went in for the save. Survivors should play with some sort of fear saying "Screw this I don't want to take a chance, i'm out of here" NOED changes that possibility entirely and survivors hate that. Like players who camp with insidious. Never ever ever, when facing leather face and see a survivor hooked in the basement will I ever go for the save. And for players who rush in without thinking twice getting mad that they were just downed by an insidious camping leather face only have them selves to blame for charging in thinking it's just like any other game. Survivors blame yourself, not the perks. I have died due to stupidity and instead of coming to complain in the forums I have tried to learn, to accept and work around it.
I will happily struggle till the time runs out to give my team time to gen rush a camping killer, but HATE when I see them run downstairs to the rescue without any thought of their fate.
Only my experience and opinion.
In my experience, survivors have issue with it because it can turn a 1k into a 3/4k. The killer could do poorly and still net a win with a perk's help.
No doubt the perk can swing things in the killers favor, but unless the other survivors are happily dancing in front of the killer at the very least 2 can get out if they jump on a gate until it's open and then leave.
Admittedly, back in the day when I used NOED, a game where I was so lucky to get 1 survivor on the hook before a gate was opened and they all escaped. Many games the other 3 would stay . . and keep messing around like they're going to outsmart me. All I want is at at least one kill, I was terrible back then. Nope here they come swarming the hook, ready to body block and all because they didn't walk out of the open gate ROFL.
I totally agree with you, but it has been in so many cases that survivors have a gate open. They can leave, but they chose to stay. Any time a survivor chooses to stay instead of leave, they need to get over it if they die.
I can see NOED as an anti borrowed time perk at the end game. Without NOED with 1 or more players going for the save to body block and the BT protecting the injured there is no way a killer is going to secure any kill. And survivors get to use borrowed time throughout the entire game.
Again, I agree with you that the perk can help get a massive snowball in an otherwise lost game, but 9/10 times the other survivors simply had to leave out the gate, but chose to stay. Their choice not to leave caused their death, not the perk they weren't counting on the killer having. The perk just made it possible.
I typically don't care if I die once gates are powered. Points and pips are secured by that point. If a killer gets me at the end and camps me, I expect it. If I see NOED go off, I'm not usually blindsided by it. It's honestly more annoying when your teammates aren't on board. I've had games where I cleansed all totems but one and the DS kiddo couldn't even bother with the last totem. So what was everyone surviving turned into a 3k 'cause the one who wasn't caught was inept. The person wasn't bad at playing, I don't think. Sometimes people will put NOED on characters they aren't used to.
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@TrAiNwReCk said:
@fluffybunny said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
@ermsy said:
TrAiNwReCk said:@NightmareReborn said:
I feel like people hate it because it rewards poor performance. I'd just make it so that survivors know the killer has noed when the last gen is popped rather when a survivor is hit. It would give extra warning to the survivors. Also that the NOED totem would be revealed in a small radius so you would have to spend 10 hrs finding it.
I don't care about NOED or DS. They both can be annoying to go up against, but I like your thoughts on players perception of the NOED perk.
* I feel like people hate it because it rewards poor performance
If this truly is the majority of players perception I as a killer who couldn't care if NOED stays or goes.
* Remove NOED for killers
* Remove hatch for survivors
NO MORE REWARDING ANYONE FOR BAD PERFORMANCEId agree to this
@fluffybunny since you mentioned poor play in one of your posts :-)
I actually wanted to reply to this after, but didn't want to be that person leaving a ton of replies in a row. QQ Hatch could use a rework so that it's more of a game of skill rather than often a gift to survivors, regardless of skill. Hatch isn't really a sign of poor play unless we're suggesting survivors should be treated as a unit. I've had many games where I've done all the gens or was the only one solid in a chase, so there's often a range of skill when regarding both solo and swf. It should be more of a process, though, that takes skill, but is doable with just one person, though.
The more posts the more info shared. It's always good to receive feedback. We all hope for opinionated feedback, not that hateful stuff.
I wasn't trying at a real balance to the game, but you're not the only one to mention NOED rewards poor performance or something similar. So I thought the hatch would be a good resemblance to NOED and unrealistically would cancel each other out in the rewards for being bad department.
Agreed, because you and your team only got 2+ gens done doesn't mean you are bad by any means. Though if a killer keeps good pressure, secures quick hooks and gets kills before gens can power the gates I say they deserve the kills. Just as a 4 man survivor team. It's not fair to any of them if the killer manages to get 1 survivor due to NOED if they all managed to survive only to power the gates and get dumped on. I feel they are of similar weight in the value they have to both sides.
I agree. It's best to keep ideas going around. ^^ Being rude or hateful doesn't really help anything.
I was thinking it was more like DS 'cause DS users tend to be weak and it often ends with an easier "win" where they don't have to learn to loop as well and so on. Killers will often leave DS on the ground and if there's two people and one is DS, the killer is only going after them if they have an obsession perk in most cases. I'm sure there's other things, too. I don't use DS, so I may not know all the elements related to the perk. I just know what I see from my teammates and from killers.
The point of the hatch currently is to find the survivor (as killer) before they find or near the hatch. So, it's like the final frontier for both sides. The big this is that the last person is often the one hiding/not doing gens and not the one trying to get both of them out, though, and it often ends up in a stalemate, which is boring for both sides.
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@The_Crusader said:
Its not even just that they reward bad players, it's that both perks have the potential to turn the game around in an instant. A simple perk shouldn't be able to do that.What is the difference between 3 survivors getting downed with NOED and 3 survivors getting downed in one phase of Michael's EW3? It's both just bad play from the survivors' side.
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I wouldn't call it killer sided.@Poweas said:@Vietfox said:
Because they are too lazy to adapt.When did you become so killer sided? Every comment I see from you is always in favour of killers. You ditched survivor or something?
Can noed be prevented? Yes. Then it's not broken.
Besides, both sides got some stuff that can change the result of the match at the end of it, and i like that. If games were predictable they wouldn't be as interesting as they are.0 -
Lol when you conplain about campers and the killer mains on here tell you to rush gens, then when you complain about NOED they tell you it's your own fault for rushing gens.ShrimpTwiggs said:Killers: If the killer camps, rush gens.
Survivors: rush gens
NOED pops
Killers: Do totems.On a side note, I can't stand the argument that NOED counters gen rush. Please stop defending the devs' habit of fixing game play problems with perks.
They want to camp their cake and eat it too. How dare those survivors not wait for me to camp this guy out of the game!2 -
Had to laugh, my last game, I had the killer camp their own NOED totem lol. I guess as it was right near the exit gate... You can guess what happen... We all escaped through the other gate lol.1
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@Vietfox said:
Because they are too lazy to adapt.
When did you become so killer sided? Every comment I see from you is always in favour of killers. You ditched survivor or something?
I wouldn't call it killer sided.
Can noed be prevented? Yes. Then it's not broken.
Besides, both sides got some stuff that can change the result of the match at the end of it, and i like that. If games were predictable they wouldn't be as interesting as they are.I seriously hope the endgame gets reworked soon. To be more fun. NOED is a perk that fixes it. It's a bandaid. The devs have plans to rework the endgame. If they do and the killers have a chance to 4k in endgame, then you better believe that the chances are, NOED will be reworked completely.
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@The_Crusader said:
ShrimpTwiggs said:Killers: If the killer camps, rush gens.
Survivors: rush gens
NOED pops
Killers: Do totems.
On a side note, I can't stand the argument that NOED counters gen rush. Please stop defending the devs' habit of fixing game play problems with perks.
Lol when you conplain about campers and the killer mains on here tell you to rush gens, then when you complain about NOED they tell you it's your own fault for rushing gens.
They want to camp their cake and eat it too. How dare those survivors not wait for me to camp this guy out of the game!
Every time that I've run into Noed and died was from this, a killer camps one guy, we do the gens, then he slugs me or someone next to the exit gates and continues to camp. But to clarify, I don't think the perk is at fault it's the player abusing a toxic play style and not being countered for it. Then again, every game I'm in there's atleast a minimum of 2 d strikers.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@The_Crusader said:
Its not even just that they reward bad players, it's that both perks have the potential to turn the game around in an instant. A simple perk shouldn't be able to do that.What is the difference between 3 survivors getting downed with NOED and 3 survivors getting downed in one phase of Michael's EW3? It's both just bad play from the survivors' side.
I will assume, that survivors don't rank Micheal's power or Devour Hope the same as NOED as both of those perks require the killer to do something. Where as NOED is automatically applied.
It's only a guess. I could be wrong.
That being said, the attempted balance for NOED is not only the fact totems are it's lifeline, but many players seem to forget the killer is running with 3 perks basically the main part of the game. NOED is a last ditch effort to turn a game around in a sense.
I don't run NOED, not because I dislike the perk or anything, but it got old being bashed for using it. Using other perks with certain killers are just as viable to snowball a 4k. NOED isn't necessary, but I don't like to lump most NOED users into the noob bin.
If I come across NOED, DS or whatever it's just a game. Roll your eyes and say oh well lol.
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I have an example that happened today for why I don’t like NOED.
I was having an awesome game. I had the Wraith on the corn map (name slips my mind right now). I was hit once, pulled three people off the hook, fully healed two people, completed 2 1/2 of the gens, cleansed two totems, and opened one of the escape doors.
After the door was open, I ran out to a hook that was in between both doors and unhooked one last survivor. On our way back to the open escape door the Wraith appeared only a few meters from the door. I was at full health and moved to go through the exit gates... and I got one shot to the dying state.
I did everything right. I did the objectives. I helped and supported my teammates. And I died from a one shot move because the killer was running a perk that made up for all the mistakes they made during the game.
NOED is a perk that says “no matter how bad you are and how many mistakes you make you can still get a free kill, and no matter how good you play you can still instantly die after you’ve done everything right”1 -
@ATOMIC_ACE_PUGG said:
Because it forces surviors to be carefulIt's not really so much that as a killer can suck the entire game I mean absolutely no map pressure and literally just camp their hex totem etc. If the spot they're camping also has the totem close or it's really well hidden the killer gets downs they didn't really deserve.
Also this isn't any comparison to the hatch either so all the hatch complainers don't even bother since there's no equivalency here.
I don't really have an issue with NOED other than when I get downed by it after cleansing the other 4 totems and if anything totems should be worth much more.
If totems were worth 1k objective points and hexes worth 2k points you'd expect everyone is going to go looking for totems.
That's less people doing gens and much more likely to get caught by the killer looking for said totem cleansers.
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I don't dislike NOED because I think it's unfair, I think it's totally fair. The survivors have the full opportunity to cleanse the totems ahead of time. I dislike NOED because it rewards killers for the survivors being greedy, not because they actually played well. It gives kills that they didn't earn. I think we'd be shocked to see the games kill stats if all NOED downs were taken out of that data.
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That's kind of a self-contradiction. If the gates are powered and a survivor makes the conscious decision to screw around or go for a hook rescue, knowing full well that it's possible that NOED could be in play, that's a risk they take. And if they get caught and one-shotted, that's their own fault.Blueberry said:I don't dislike NOED because I think it's unfair, I think it's totally fair. The survivors have the full opportunity to cleanse the totems ahead of time. I dislike NOED because it rewards killers for the survivors being greedy, not because they actually played well. It gives kills that they didn't earn. I think we'd be shocked to see the games kill stats if all NOED downs were taken out of that data.
In this situation, NOED is more about punishing a cheeky survivor. Rewarding the killer with a so-called "unearned kill" is a side-effect.0 -
@t3hp0larbear said:
Blueberry said:I don't dislike NOED because I think it's unfair, I think it's totally fair. The survivors have the full opportunity to cleanse the totems ahead of time. I dislike NOED because it rewards killers for the survivors being greedy, not because they actually played well. It gives kills that they didn't earn. I think we'd be shocked to see the games kill stats if all NOED downs were taken out of that data.
That's kind of a self-contradiction. If the gates are powered and a survivor makes the conscious decision to screw around or go for a hook rescue, knowing full well that it's possible that NOED could be in play, that's a risk they take. And if they get caught and one-shotted, that's their own fault.
In this situation, NOED is more about punishing a cheeky survivor. Rewarding the killer with a so-called "unearned kill" is a side-effect.
None of that is a contradiction. If the survivors do all of what you said, that is THEM being greedy and playing dumb, not anything the killer did.
It is punishing the cheeky survivors, but it's unearned kill side effect is why I dislike it and I still believe it's a crutch for playing badly. I'd rather it be a perk that punished the cheeky survivors by giving you more time to make plays, not free hooks.
Like I said, I think it's totally a fair perk that can easily be countered. I will just never run it as any kills it's giving you, you wouldn't have got other wise.
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I feel like its sort of the equivalent to Killers not liking Adrenaline or DS for Survivors. I personally believe it gives Killers a second chance if they did really bad in game, which is.... Eh. But I have to admit it feels good when you get that one survivor who's been herrassing you all game with it.0
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So it's like decisive strike. Seems balanced to mepowerbats said:@ATOMIC_ACE_PUGG said:
Because it forces surviors to be carefulIt's not really so much that as a killer can suck the entire game I mean absolutely no map pressure and literally just camp their hex totem etc. If the spot they're camping also has the totem close or it's really well hidden the killer gets downs they didn't really deserve.
Also this isn't any comparison to the hatch either so all the hatch complainers don't even bother since there's no equivalency here.
I don't really have an issue with NOED other than when I get downed by it after cleansing the other 4 totems and if anything totems should be worth much more.
If totems were worth 1k objective points and hexes worth 2k points you'd expect everyone is going to go looking for totems.
That's less people doing gens and much more likely to get caught by the killer looking for said totem cleansers.
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I too think that kills would be much, MUCH lower if NOED wasn't around. I just feel thar NOED doesn't do anybody any favours. Bad killers rank up because of it and they find themselves out of their depth. They aren't going to get any better having a perk do the work for them.Blueberry said:I don't dislike NOED because I think it's unfair, I think it's totally fair. The survivors have the full opportunity to cleanse the totems ahead of time. I dislike NOED because it rewards killers for the survivors being greedy, not because they actually played well. It gives kills that they didn't earn. I think we'd be shocked to see the games kill stats if all NOED downs were taken out of that data.
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If you were downed at the end by NOED, you didn't earn your escape. Git gud.
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If a survivor escaped due to DS, you didn't earn your hook. Git gud.Tucking_Friggered said:If you were downed at the end by NOED, you didn't earn your escape. Git gud.
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All I read killers are all in for the 4k!
NOED is a noob perk that rewards bad play!
Totems are too difficult to find or no time to cleanse them, because my teammates are bananas.
If the survivors get all the gens they deserve the exit gates.
How dare a killer camp a hook in the end game! Let us safely unhook and go!
But if we fail as survivors and the hatch spawns let us have the hatch.
No that's not like securing a kill!
Camping is toxic hatch is not!
Just wow to all these double standards!
If you think, the killer should let the last guy get the hatch and not slug for a 4k. Why don't the same survivors let the killer have one NOED hook and just leave the game and move on to the next match?
What is the difference?1 -
Haven't gotten killed by NOED in ages. No clue why people still freak out about it. Run Small Game or memorize totem spots.0
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@The_Crusader said:
Tucking_Friggered said:If you were downed at the end by NOED, you didn't earn your escape. Git gud.
If a survivor escaped due to DS, you didn't earn your hook. Git gud.
We do. So looks like we all deal with it. You keep your DS and we'll keep NOED. We have Enduring and you have cleansing. ;}
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Cool. A race to the bottom with crappy perks. Just what the game needs. Much fun.Tucking_Friggered said:@The_Crusader said:
Tucking_Friggered said:If you were downed at the end by NOED, you didn't earn your escape. Git gud.
If a survivor escaped due to DS, you didn't earn your hook. Git gud.
We do. So looks like we all deal with it. You keep your DS and we'll keep NOED. We have Enduring and you have cleansing. ;}
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@The_Crusader said:
Cool. A race to the bottom with crappy perks. Just what the game needs. Much fun.
The perks are fine. You're just mediocre in talent and cleansing totems, which require map navigation and awareness, are too complicated for you to do reliably. That's a personal issue. A git gud one specifically. Understanding that, play carefully and exit the gate instead of sticking around to troll the killer and try and unhook that survivor through brute force.
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Nice assumption. Ok I'll learn to do that. Thanks for the advice.Tucking_Friggered said:@The_Crusader said:
Cool. A race to the bottom with crappy perks. Just what the game needs. Much fun.
The perks are fine. You're just mediocre in talent and cleansing gens which require map navigation and awareness are too complicated for you to do reliably. That's a personal issue. A git gud one specifically. Understanding that, play carefully and exit the gate instead of sticking around to troll the killer and try and unhook that survivor through brute force.
Perhaps you could learn how to pressure gens, learn when a survivor is better than you and give uo the chase, and stop relying on perks to carry you through?1 -
Even zubatlel sometimes uses NOED so the "only bad killers" use NOED is thrown out of the window. I use it on legion for the 4% MS increase and sometimes to surprise adrenaline users or ppl who just run for the hooked guy.
And ppl who compare NOED to DS are beyond helping.
The only perk that would be an equivalent to DS would be a perk that would reduce neccesary hooks on survivors by one which yes, would be incredibly broken. Welcome to DS.
NOED is nothing but a "free" down but only if you catch the survivor in the first place AND if your totem lights up in the first place. If more than 1 person gets downed by NOED then it's ENTIRELY the survivor's fault for not cleansing totems and still being altruistic while NOED is still up.
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But that's the point, when a good player uses it on a strong killer, it's one hell of an OP build.MhhBurgers said:Even zubatlel sometimes uses NOED so the "only bad killers" use NOED is thrown out of the window. I use it on legion for the 4% MS increase and sometimes to surprise adrenaline users or ppl who just run for the hooked guy.
Glad some streamers play with honour though.0 -
I actually don't even if it changes the outcome sometimes. By the time gates are powered I got a pip at least.0
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@The_Crusader said:
Tucking_Friggered said:@The_Crusader said:
Cool. A race to the bottom with crappy perks. Just what the game needs. Much fun.
The perks are fine. You're just mediocre in talent and cleansing gens which require map navigation and awareness are too complicated for you to do reliably. That's a personal issue. A git gud one specifically. Understanding that, play carefully and exit the gate instead of sticking around to troll the killer and try and unhook that survivor through brute force.
Nice assumption. Ok I'll learn to do that. Thanks for the advice.
Perhaps you could learn how to pressure gens, learn when a survivor is better than you and give uo the chase, and stop relying on perks to carry you through?
No thanks. The perks are there for that specific purpose. Deal with it. As for all of those terms you like to throw around, the amusing part is that you lack the talent to do any of that which is why you're a survivor main. Your skill caps at staying immersed and looping a pallet. When you fail at doing those two things and find yourself on a hook near the end game because you wasted all the pallets early and mid you are upsetti spaghetti your teammates can't save you easily. Or in the opposite scenario, you can not save the guy that made those same mediocre choices. The sad part of all of this is even if they removed NOED and you managed to climb to the top ranks you'd have your ass carved and handed to you gourmet by killers that absolutely never use NOED.
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Because it rewards you for playing bad.
So many games I have had where the killer is either hardcamping, tunneling one survivor all game, or just dropping chases constantly and not committing to a single one, just to get a 2k or 4k because NOED.
And with the new totems spawns, getting all 5 totems is hard unless you actually use a perk solely for the purpose of finding totems. Even then, if the killer is facecamping the survivor, getting all the 5 totems is time you can't afford.0 -
Don't like NOED - must be a survivor main.Tucking_Friggered said:@The_Crusader said:
Tucking_Friggered said:@The_Crusader said:
Cool. A race to the bottom with crappy perks. Just what the game needs. Much fun.
The perks are fine. You're just mediocre in talent and cleansing gens which require map navigation and awareness are too complicated for you to do reliably. That's a personal issue. A git gud one specifically. Understanding that, play carefully and exit the gate instead of sticking around to troll the killer and try and unhook that survivor through brute force.
Nice assumption. Ok I'll learn to do that. Thanks for the advice.
Perhaps you could learn how to pressure gens, learn when a survivor is better than you and give uo the chase, and stop relying on perks to carry you through?
No thanks. The perks are there for that specific purpose. Deal with it. As for all of those terms you like to throw around, the amusing part is that you lack the talent to do any of that which is why you're a survivor main. Your skill caps at staying immersed and looping a pallet. When you fail at doing those two things and find yourself on a hook near the end game because you wasted all the pallets early and mid you are upsetti spaghetti your teammates can't save you easily. Or in the opposite scenario, you can not save the guy that made those same mediocre choices. The sad part of all of this is even if they removed NOED and you managed to climb to the top ranks you'd have your ass carved and handed to you gourmet by killers that absolutely never use NOED.
Great logic. I mean it's not like there are killer mains out there who don't use it and think it feels cheap.0 -
@The_Crusader said:
Tucking_Friggered said:@The_Crusader said:
Tucking_Friggered said:
@The_Crusader said: Cool. A race to the bottom with crappy perks. Just what the game needs. Much fun. The perks are fine. You're just mediocre in talent and cleansing gens which require map navigation and awareness are too complicated for you to do reliably. That's a personal issue. A git gud one specifically. Understanding that, play carefully and exit the gate instead of sticking around to troll the killer and try and unhook that survivor through brute force. Nice assumption. Ok I'll learn to do that. Thanks for the advice.
Perhaps you could learn how to pressure gens, learn when a survivor is better than you and give uo the chase, and stop relying on perks to carry you through?
No thanks. The perks are there for that specific purpose. Deal with it. As for all of those terms you like to throw around, the amusing part is that you lack the talent to do any of that which is why you're a survivor main. Your skill caps at staying immersed and looping a pallet. When you fail at doing those two things and find yourself on a hook near the end game because you wasted all the pallets early and mid you are upsetti spaghetti your teammates can't save you easily. Or in the opposite scenario, you can not save the guy that made those same mediocre choices. The sad part of all of this is even if they removed NOED and you managed to climb to the top ranks you'd have your ass carved and handed to you gourmet by killers that absolutely never use NOED.
Don't like NOED - must be a survivor main.
Great logic. I mean it's not like there are killer mains out there who don't use it and think it feels cheap.
No, I know you are a survivor main because you have spent days on the forums whinging about an endgame perk that affects the easiest side to play. If you played killer to any real degree along with survivor you'd understand none of the complaints you are making have any merit and you'd have the ability to just lose with grace.
You'd also have some insight into why you can not save every survivor and have to put self preservation as top priority. Failure to do so is why NOED is OP to you.
Also, just because you or others feels it is cheap doesn't mean anything. That's just subjective opinion with an emotive argument. Some killers have one hit downs and they can NOED you every single time, all match long, with no way to avoid it outside of dodging. Just like NOED.
And therein lies the point of NOED. It gives one hit down ability in the end game for killers that need it.0 -
To quote the jnsidous use its a good perk for nurse at endgame with noed as she can hide behind a gate and slug somone as they come thoough0
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@powerbats said:
@ATOMIC_ACE_PUGG said:
Because it forces surviors to be carefulIt's not really so much that as a killer can suck the entire game I mean absolutely no map pressure and literally just camp their hex totem etc. If the spot they're camping also has the totem close or it's really well hidden the killer gets downs they didn't really deserve.
Also this isn't any comparison to the hatch either so all the hatch complainers don't even bother since there's no equivalency here.
I don't really have an issue with NOED other than when I get downed by it after cleansing the other 4 totems and if anything totems should be worth much more.
If totems were worth 1k objective points and hexes worth 2k points you'd expect everyone is going to go looking for totems.
That's less people doing gens and much more likely to get caught by the killer looking for said totem cleansers.
This "Also this isn't any comparison to the hatch either so all the hatch complainers don't even bother since there's no equivalency here." Is Hilarious.
The only time players bring up being rewarded for "poor performance" in regards to killer or survivor they bring up
- Hatch
- NOED
As they both aren't earned, they are ACTIVATED automatically when substandard game mechanics are applied.
- Survivor did all gens, but not all totems . . . Get an instant down Killers
- Killer killed 3/4 survivors and ONLY 2+ gens got done . . . Get a free escape last Survivor (your team failed to get all gens done to escape, but one of you can still escape . . . just because)
Rant all you like, but trying to shut out those with common sense "hatch complainers" proves how ignorant you are. You don't want the game balanced around facts, you want the game balanced around feelings.
I don't care about hatch or NOED. The simple fact is that they have more in common with how their mechanic works, rewarding those who don't have to work for anything. All they have to do is wait for the mechanic to become activated.
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NOED isn't a problem.
People like to harp on it because it gives them less control at the end of the match.
NOED indirectly slows down gens a bit too. NOED is healthy. 14 seconds x 5 is all it takes to kill the perk.
And the HIGH majority of the time if NOED goes active it is broken within 1 down at best. It is a powerful perk, but it is situational.
There's lots of times I bring it and never even get to use it because I 4k with 2 or 3 gens left.
This is a game where the concept is that surviving is tough and not easy. But sometimes it is. That's fine.
NOED counters gen rush somewhat. NOED is 100% needed. It's like even in the game's tagline.
death is not an escape
no one escapes death
I mean come on. NOED has counterplay.
SWF doesn't. Stop crying.
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Simply put: NOED is annoying and that is why.
Personally, I don't hate it. It's an unpleasant surprise, especially if you busted your ass to survive the trial you're in. But really, I've only been paying this game since last August and by now I've accepted it as one of the many occupational hazards of being a survivor. If the gates are powered and nobody has been hit since then, I automatically assume that NOED is in play and don't stick around to find out if it is or not. Breaking dull totems doesn't take much time at all and I generally stop to do them as I encounter them throughout the trial.
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