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Judgement vs Artist
So, Judgement is basically Artist, but faster birds, instadamage, shorter cooldowns and works on multiple floors at once.
Does that mean we can get an Artist buff to at least match the instadamage and massively reduce the cooldown? Or will Judgement lose the instadamage and instead needs to mark people first before dealing damage?
Because without the change, there is no reason for people to play Artist over Judgement at all. It's effectively the same killer, but one has downsides.
Comments
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Artist main strenght is zonin in loops, which sadly got worse with pallet density but Judgment is very inconsistent in 1v1 chase, Artist mostly forces survivors to abandon loop. With buffed knockout I might see Artist popularity increase as it will be very powerfull in confirming hits.
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Yeah, but Judgement can effectively do the same in loop zoning, with slightly harder aim, but once you learn to aim it's not much harder, especially because you can spam the attack compared to Artist.
Like, the unique part of Artist was that she could pressure people cross map mid-chase. Judgement can do the same, but multi-floor. Judgement on RPD, The Game or Midwich can spend 100% of the round on the bottom floor and win.
I dont know what BHVR has with giving every single new killer a 60 second cooldown effect that IMO could disappear instantly the moment you trigger the thing that causes the cooldown (mending with Kaneki, collecting and eating a mushroom for Krasue, having multiple survivors reduce the timer of Vecna2. Imagine you apply that same logic to Plague, Artist, Nemesis, Wesker and Freddy). If they were to remove the cooldowns instantly and make the killers apply the effect first, the only killer that would need a buff is Vecna2. The rest would be fine.
And that's legit my biggest issue with Judgement. If it was like Plague where you had to purge at stands, or like Freddy where you need to enter the Dreamworld before pallets do damage, I think I would not have any main issues with Judgement. But right now? You can in theory stand still after you spawn in, use your m2 and win the game, even if survivors follow all the intended counterplay.
All the while, Artist cant even place crows while she's near a hook, because in theory that allows her to stand still and damage cross map, that was legit the reason for it. Judgement CAN throw pillars of light while facecamping.
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judgement is worse than artist she's ultra telegraphed large and glowing the only thing she has over artist is her beam can damage on first hit and even that gets mitigated when you go up against an artist who can can hit you with 2 crows at a distance since you won't even know it's happening till you get hit
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That is not true. Artist has mapwide sound cue and you see aura of crows when launched. Judgment instantly damages survivors, Artist has to hit them twice and they can repeal via lockers to avoid that scenario. Also you see swarmed auras for very short to follow up hit without constant guessing, which is quite ez as you just double back. Artist forces survivors of loop as you place bird inside it and survivors will just leave to another loop. By this you spend a lot of time getting hits but you don't have to play most of the loops. I love Mathias baby shoes paired with sewered hands which is by far her best add on. I used to run bandages with shorter cooldown but in the end sniping only works against lower mmr.
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first judgement has mapwide directional audio so you know exactly where she is aiming and if it's in the open you can see the whole set-up process where she's aiming the beam before she fires it's also a big white eye catching pillar that still makes noise as it comes at you
she's also extremely aura dependent to even hit a person and since the survivor sees every step of her aiming and firing it's even easier to dodge it just requires you to use your eyes and this isn't mentioning how she's giant and glowing and 110 so you can see her wings over a lot of loops and it takes her longer to move across the map and down someone with melee with these factors
also i'm talking about the double hit set up artist can do (i really need to learn how to do it) since she can just take a health state if she knows which gen a survivor is at
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You are assuming the hits to be intentional. And while the audio is directional, it also isnt. The audio is centered on the survivor instead of on the killer, meaning you get a general direction. And "If its in the open" is a BIG if. Almost all generators are behind walls. Not even talking about maps like RPD and Midwich.
By the time you see the aura of the pillar, your ability to avoid the damage is based on your distance and ping.
On a map like Cornfield, you'd be entirely right. But there are plenty of maps where Judgment just spams the pillar in random directions mid-chase and happens to injure and down survivors.
And while the double hit setup is possible for Artist, its easily avoidable because her crows are slower in the first place, they have a smaller hitbox and even if they get hit by 1 crow, they still have enough time to dodge the second one. It also requires a dedicated set-up that's hard to do mid-chase.
Meanwhile, Judgment from the same distance throws a pillar at you that's twice as big and moves twice as fast, and the player isnt even attempting to aim at you.0 -
I think the main similarity with artist and judgement is just attack range. They have entirely different counterplay, different status effects, different attack patterns, and different strengths/weaknesses.
Its kinda like asking if huntress should be buffed since jason exists. Or xeno should be buffed since springtrap exists, or nemisis should be buffed since pyramid head exists.
Judgement just happens to come with more basekit benefits since most newer killers powercreep older killers to keep up with the new survivor perks.
Artist could probably do with some buffing since people seem to avoid playing her due to newer killers being much easier to pickup and get results with. But buffing things is risky as most killers can still kill the whole team these days either way, its just slightly more difficult than the newer killers.
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While true, it also isnt.
Artist and Judgment have different 1v1 counterplay. But their attack patterns are quite similar and they have similar strengths and Judgment simply has fewer weaknesses.
And Huntress does need a buff too. Partially due to Jason, but also Springtrap and Trickster. Xeno isnt a weaker version of Springtrap, Nemesis isnt a weaker version of Pyrhead. But Artist absolutely is a weaker version of Judgment.
Basically, Artist today is like Bubba used to be before his rework. Just a slower version of Billy. Also, Artist is fine as is, I would call her a solid A tier killer, she did not need a killer that has similar long range attacks, but better and also 10 other effects. I would be fine with Judgment if Artist was as effective as Trapper or Doc, but that's not the case.Hence, why I say Judgment needs to follow the " mark first, damage later" instead of doing both at once when it comes to long range attacks
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Artist is fine as she is, let's keep her off the dev radar before something bad happens please 🥺
Judgement and artist are only superficially similar in that they both have long range attacks that go through walls. Artist can get her second hit much easier than Judgement (atleast when survivors aren't being silly 🪿) via wall of birds. Artist can also be a lot more creative than Judgement as she can use her power to trap places to get hits ex the house at garden of joy or the meat chute at the game and is generally more stealthy with her shots. Judgement meanwhile is pretty straightforward with, charge, aim, fire a obvious pillar of light with the most creative things to me being return shots or creative use of stairs.
Artist relatively plays like most killers while judgement plays more like a beefed up sniper huntress than anything else.
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So, Artist needs to hit 4 birds, which are slower and have a slightly smaller hitbox.
Judgment only needs to hit twice, which isnt easy to do on purpose early on, but it's literally just getting used to geometry that isnt directly intuitive.Once people do get that intuition, they can use their pillar 3 times by the time Artist fires her second crow. That's 3 potential hits vs 1 potential hit. You can jump in a locker to instantly get rid of crows after the first one hit, to avoid the second one and remain healthy. If the same happens against Judgment, you can maybe jump in a locker to avoid being downed, but you're injured and now Judgment is on the way.
Judgment isnt too problematic now, because people are still bad with the aim. But Blight (after the camera fix) was considered B tier by some people who spend 3 hours playing him, and we all know they were absolutely wrong. I thought Blight had S tier potential in the PTB, Artist could potentially be S tier if her crows were slightly bigger and didnt have such a big cooldown (so that sending them half way across the stairs on Midwich could injure people on both floors), Judgment is absolutely S tier potential and has the potential to be more lethal than Nurse on all maps.
If anything, Judgment shows what Artist could have been, if not for the limitations
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Artists crows are easier to hit smarter targets due to being harder to see than a giant beam of light and being able to effectively force survivors to leave by trapping loops.
Artists crows actually speed up from distance. The birds initial flight speed is slower but matches judgements max beam speed after less than a second. Judgement's initial beam speed is faster but goes the same max speed as the birds.
Artist cd for firing a single crow (5 seconds) is actually shorter than a non zealous judgement and has various cds depending on if she fires or not and how many. Judgement is 6 seconds outside of zealous regardless of shooting or not while zealous makes it slightly shorter than 5 (4.something if math is correct) but requires a exile first to get it.
True you can use a locker to remove being swarmed instantly, but that's why a more serious artist would bring "Iron Maiden" as backup. Judgement has less synergy with most perks than most killers. At a far distance however artist will be coming quicker as she's a normal speed killer while judgement would be slower to catch up. Judgement would need to choose whether to shoot more and hope they hit, walking slower all the while, or not and get there quicker. Artist isn't as slowed by filing her birds.
Judgement is a better sniper but Artist is more well rounded which is why I believe she's fine as is. She doesn't need touched, especially with the track record of BHVR touching things that don't need touched.
I don't care about people's tier lists as some are more insane than I am but here's a funny fact. Despite being practically more than half of most maps Judgement actually has a range limit while artist funnily enough is actually map wide.
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