https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472588/future-of-dead-by-daylight-forums
Why's Dead Man's Switch considered a good perk?
Is it that 2nd counter to it appears to be well hidden? From my games, the perk ends up a dead slot because I would always go ahead and counter it myself, making it block a 0% gen and effectively do nothing.
The counterplay of Pain Res + Dead Man's combo by letting go of a hot gen already reduces it's effectiveness, but tapping a 0% gen reduces that effectiveness down to 0. Am I missing something in why this perk is considered good?
Comments
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could it be that you mean the new version now? Because I don't think most people would call this perk that good anymore.
Before you could block multiple gens at the same time, so fast killers could in theory block all gens that are being worked on. Survivors had to leave the gen early because they get hit instantly otherwise, so they didn't have much of a choice except letting it get blocked. Now it's not only one gen but also not instantly but after several seconds not touching it, so you could even start running and then come back if you realize that the killer isn't coming.
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The previous version is overrated as well.
block multiple gens at the same time, so fast killers could in theory block all gens that are being worked on
You couldn't block all gens in any way (only with grim embrace), DMS only affects one gen and was easily countered by touching a gen with no progress and now has the same counter but it lasts longer so that's a buff if you manage to activate it on a gen with progress.
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Yeah I mean the newer version with one gen block, even before the 2 seconds nerf. I truly don't understand why dms is viewed as a good perk considering how much it's counter, well, counters it
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Wasn't it able to block multiple gens at the same time or was that the version even before that? xD
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The new one isn't as good as before, but I guess I only had the version even before that in the head how I found out above haha xF
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This is something I'd often do too, but you're determining its strength under the impression that the average solo queue player:
A) Understands how the perk works
B) Takes the time to figure out caveats like this
I hate to say this as an almost exclusively solo player myself, but your average teammate googles "best dbd survivor build", equips the perks that they are told to and then puts no further thought into how they play the game.
As much as I'd like the game to be balanced around a thoughtful and inquisitive player base, the vast majority of players simply do not meet this criteria and the game must therefore be balanced around them instead.
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I think this is the reason, because yes I often see people letting go of the gen before a hook happens, but I never ever see someone tapping a gen in the hud. It's just weird to me because it's not really a deeply hidden counter, it's literally "The gen is blocked if I let go of it, hm, I must let go of a low progress gen then to waste it"
It's also a counter which can make dms actually harmful to killer. A perfect example I got in my last survivor game. A blight had Pain res dms. 2 of my teammates played around it, and I saw it via hud. After the down, I moved in advance to a low gen progress further from my 2 teammates, and tapped it after hook. Shortly after, Blight came, didn't disrupt my 2 teammates, and wasted time on me away from both gen and hook.
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DMS allowed of keeping objective hostage for quite some time, Surge used to blow blocked gens back in a days. If you push someone off the gen 5-6x per game even now, you have 200s of their targeted objective unrepairable and a lot of killer can push them off quickly or through map potentially blow the gen, block it and push them off so gen that was 90 % will be 15 % before they come back to stop the regression. It's even now very good perk and it was used for the reason, so if you think that it's bad or overrated perk it's just dellusion of seing it's pure strenght in slowing down game consistently.
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It's definitely not as convenient as the previous version, but I still find enough value on very specific killers to use the combination.
Xenomorph is who I use it on still mostly, though I feel any high mobility killer could benefit. Pain res hits gen after hook, I use jagged compass, so go to highlighted gen through tunnels as it shows gen with highest progress, as I'm exiting tunnel I spam Turn Back the Clock which gives just enough time to regress the gen and then DMS blocks it. Even without Turn Back the Clock, I still got over to the gen before survivors were able to able to repair the damage Pain Res did and then DMS holds the gen at that progress while I'm busy chasing them.
So yeah, it's not as nice as it was before because I knew I could chase someone else on the map vs the ones on that gen for a bit and have that much extra pressure, but it's not so awful I won't use it anymore, just have to use it differently.
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I elaborated above on why I consider the perk to be much weaker than people think, and your example showcases why it's considered strong. If it is allowed to block gen with highest progress, then this perk provides great value. The issue though, is exactly the "allowed" part. Survivors have the tool to prevent it's value, but it appears they don't use it.
The gen regressing from 90% to 15% is bad example, that's not power of dms, that's power of survivors abandoning a hot gen forever, allowing it to regress so much, because while a gen is blocked, it doesn't regress
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Obviously blocked gens don't regress. The point was that killer can easily push people of priority gen making it unfinishable for quite a while and that can happen multiple times which slows down game tremendously. It's not that 90 % to 15 % is value of DMS, but no one will sit for minute on the blocked gen. I never been fun of blocking perks as they are too strong on good killers while not so good on weak killers and I'm weak killer enjoyer. Having gen blocked for 50s 7-9x per game gives you more time than whole time survivors need to spend to repair all their objective, which is undoubtly very strong.
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Even when duration was at 50s at tier 3, tapping a 0% gen was still the exact same counterplay. I will admit, I didn't think of such counterplay immediately, took me a few games first, eventually figured it out. Wasting 10 seconds to reposition to a no progress gen is by far much greater than wasting 50s of gen time on hottest gen. Of course, it required people actually playing around a perk which is just waaay too much work it seems. So in the end, DMS was quite the effective perk, when it shouldn't be
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No doubt, the value goes higher the less gens are remaining I did the tap a zero gen to deny DMS on other gens but this is not something that happens in most games and a lot of killers are still able to pressure gebs off the hook so the zero gen value isn't as valid. The main strenght of the DMS never was to lock down the most progress gen but gain the passive slowdown all the time, chaining it back and forth, as I mentioned if you trigger it on every hook so max 11x per game, that's 550s at least on gen will be unrepairable. In theory even if empty gen gets blocked, killer will pressure the progressed gen and that one will be blocked so you can't start gaining progress there. In the end it's always insane value and due to it's interaction with interrupts it was same cheasing as hyperfocus steak out where you got the intended value passively by not doing what was the perk designed for. Yamori mask, friends till the end, Surge, Eruption, Face The Darkness and so many other perks and add ons could easily trigger it mapwide and it was way too strong for a single equipped perk. Surely the higher mmr the less consistent value, but mid to low mmr where efficiency is already not very good the killers were able to demolish every lobby with back to back chases without much to help you. And Pain Res and DMS was most used killer perks combo for as long as DMS got reworked which is quite a few years with pain res being top 1 perk with insane 38 % usage cross every killer player so even those who played first games and don't have it unlocked only pinpointing that since unlocked every killer used it almost every game and don't get me wrong, pain res is well designed rewarding perks but again, the better killer the higher value and with new additions to the meta such as undone or turn back the clock the amount of time you can block a gen is insane. Just to clarify that grim + dms guarantess to block worked on gen 4x per game = 200s blocked = more than 2 generator solo time repair progress worth by a single perk, combines with pain res = 80 % = pain res + dms still grants 3 extra generator progress worth making survivors require to repair 8 gens instead of 5 which is not neglactable fact. Killers have very good stall mechanic with perks, let me go further.
Corrupt - top 10 perks since ever = 120s time to split pressure and denying 3/7 main point objecitves. Main issue I see is that killers bring corrupt and down someone so early that they get no much value from it, which is not why you should bring the perk. The perk is simply to cause a chaos while having locked down area.
Clock = 10 % remote damage = 11*10 = 110 % at max = over 1 generator worth progress
Surge = max 64 % per generator in certain area around down = 64 % * 7 %, so max value is 448s = 5 generator worth at max damage caused, this is the edge which is mostly unreacheable, but in prolonged games it can be possible.
Pain res = 80 % if all hooks happen
Eruption = 4*7*10 = 280 %
Common build of Pain Res, DMS, Clock and Corrupt then allows maximum of 6 additional generator with average of 3 additional generators per game in most casual matches. Meaning that survivors have to repair total of 8 gens against this build on average.
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Okay let's go into deeper analysis on that. The zero gen value is entirely valid at 3-5 gens remaining. Won't discuss it too long since obviously there are too many gens and 1 non progress gen getting blocked doesn't slow survivors whatsoever. As a matter of fact, if killer goes to that blocked gen, that's quite some time wasted
Now, the 2 gens remaining, DMS value finally appears. More than likely, all 4 of the gens aren't exactly great to use as DMS waster, but there still might be some wiggle room for that, and at the same time the game could also be in a pretty tight spot for survivors, so they might not have enough time to waste DMS anyway. I won't deny that in this scenario value of DMS is present, though it's still preventable, and it depends on the conditions during match itself
The biggest value DMS can provide as you correctly stated is at last gen remaining. If it is a situation like this here (Wreckers yard map scenario for example)
then it would require using DMS on gen B on purpose, so that killer would require to patrol much larger distance, and likely forcing them to commit to chase, which can prove fatal if used by survivors correctly. However, if it's this scenario
aka 3 gen, then I won't even argue that, this is 100% DMS being an extremely powerful perk scenario, as 0 progress gen tap counter goes out of the window completely. All of the scenarios above are assuming that 0 progress gen tap counter is actively used
To sum it up, I cannot see DMS as a good perk simply because it is really powerful in a 3 gen. That's the power of 3 gen itself, a lot of perks empower it, and imo much better than DMS. And the fact that DMS is usually considered good at all stages of the game just kind of showcases that people are oblivious to it's counter. Why exactly is a discussion of another kind, whether it's ignorance, or absence of adaption, or they are simply too casual to learn the perks of this game, even meta ones.0
