For those who claim that winning is defined as pipping

NuclearBurrito

I do admit there is some gray area with what counts as a win (it says the killers wincon is to sacrifice the survivors, but what about moris? Bleed outs? And how many?) . But it very obviously isn't defined in terms of pipping. And dying as a survivor is obviously never a win while escaping through the gate obviously always is one (hatch is another gray area because it specifically mentions powering all 5 generators)

Ryuhi

Why does this bother you so much? Win conditions can be defined by any player individually in pretty much any game. Its what the concept of a "moral victory" is. The reason people think pipping is a means of victory or defeat is because it is directly related to how the ranking system works in the game. Pipping also works a fair bit differently now than it did when that tutorial was created, btw.

For example, many people in competitive games will take any loss that they learned from as more of a victory than a blindly easy victory, since one hones their skill as a player a lot more than the other (the reward being improvement, not just a +1 next to their win count.)

Paddy4583

Oh so to win as a killer you need to do everything you do to pip? So pip = win.

thanks for clearing that up for everyone

NuclearBurrito

@Ryuhi said:
Why does this bother you so much? Win conditions can be defined by any player individually in pretty much any game. Its what the concept of a "moral victory" is. The reason people think pipping is a means of victory or defeat is because it is directly related to how the ranking system works in the game. Pipping also works a fair bit differently now than it did when that tutorial was created, btw.

I know pipping has been changed. But since games are balanced around winconditions and people make arguments based on if something causes you to win or not ect that ends up being useless if people can't agree on what a win is in the first place.

And when the game has somewhere that explicitly defines what you are trying to accomplish, you DEFINITELY shouldn't be claiming that your wincon isn't something that is even MENTIONED in that definition

thesuicidefox

Pips are the win. If you want to play to some imaginary standard, don't complain about the game not fitting YOUR model. You should adapt to the game, not the other way around.

And no where in there does it explicitly say you MUST KILL or MUST ESCAPE to win. It gives you a list of objectives, do those objectives and you get points for a pip. If you kill/escape it CONTRIBUTES to a win but is not the exclusive criteria for a win.

@Ryuhi said:
Pipping also works a fair bit differently now than it did when that tutorial was created, btw.

Also this. But even still, the tutorial is telling you how to pip not to 4k/escape.

NuclearBurrito

@Paddy4583 said:
Oh so to win as a killer you need to do everything you do to pip? So pip = win.

thanks for clearing that up for everyone

No. You can stay under a hook all you want without going negative on your wincon dispite that making you go negative on pipping.

Also as legion has proved you can pip without sacraficing anyone even though that is the one thing that is very clearly stated to be required in order to win at least to some degree

NuclearBurrito

@thesuicidefox said:
Pips are the win. If you want to play to some imaginary standard, don't complain about the game not fitting YOUR model. You should adapt to the game, the game should not change just for you.

And no where in there does it explicitly say you MUST KILL or MUST ESCAPE to win. It gives you a list of objectives, do those objectives and you get points for a pip. If you kill/escape it CONTRIBUTES to a win but is not the exclusive criteria for a win.

@Ryuhi said:
Pipping also works a fair bit differently now than it did when that tutorial was created, btw.

Also this. But even still, the tutorial is telling you how to pip not to 4k/escape.

Point to where it says you need to heal other survivors in order to win as a survivor.

And no I don't mean to Increase your odds of winning, I mean "if you don't do this it isn't a win"

And it's also VERY clear that one way or another your end goal is too escape

Ryuhi

Well look at it this way: If you hide in a corner and do literally nothing the entire game, wait for 2 gens to get done while your 3 teammates get killed, and then you sneak into the hatch getting a whopping total of 5k survival points and no pip.... do you honestly think you won?

Winning is most often described as achieving what you set out to accomplish. Thats why it changes so much between individuals what it is actually defined as, we don't all have the same objectives every game. Hell, I call it a win if I accomplish my dailies half the time

NuclearBurrito

Oh and in a sufficiently drawn out game you can pip without accomplishing ANY of these objectives on both sides

thesuicidefox

@NuclearBurrito said:
Also as legion has proved you can pip without sacraficing anyone even though that is the one thing that is very clearly stated to be required** in order to win at least to some degree**

Putting survivors on a hook =/= killing them. If you 2 hook everyone, you will almost always pip because of Chaser/Malicious, 1 point Devout (for hooking everyone), and probably at least silver Gatekeeper just because the game would have had to gone on for at least 7 or 8 minutes for you to catch everyone twice.

Also the last part IS WHAT A PIP IS! ffs

NuclearBurrito

@Ryuhi said:
Well look at it this way: If you hide in a corner and do literally nothing the entire game, wait for 2 gens to get done while your 3 teammates get killed, and then you sneak into the hatch getting a whopping total of 5k survival points and no pip.... do you honestly think you won?

Yes

Ryuhi

@NuclearBurrito said:

@thesuicidefox said:
Pips are the win. If you want to play to some imaginary standard, don't complain about the game not fitting YOUR model. You should adapt to the game, the game should not change just for you.

And no where in there does it explicitly say you MUST KILL or MUST ESCAPE to win. It gives you a list of objectives, do those objectives and you get points for a pip. If you kill/escape it CONTRIBUTES to a win but is not the exclusive criteria for a win.

@Ryuhi said:
Pipping also works a fair bit differently now than it did when that tutorial was created, btw.

Also this. But even still, the tutorial is telling you how to pip not to 4k/escape.

Point to where it says you need to heal other survivors in order to win as a survivor.

And no I don't mean to Increase your odds of winning, I mean "if you don't do this it isn't a win"

And it's also VERY clear that one way or another your end goal is too escape

You can pip while completely ignoring a single category, if you do well in the others. You won't double pip, but even gen jockeys can middle between a black pip and a single pip consistently. Same with people who get constant safe unhooks and heals but never touch a gen. Double Pipping is an "overwhelming victory" and shows that you exceeded the norm in all 4 categories.

The_Crusader

That's what I like about high ranks, people play for pips. You get more epic rescues because people go for the hooks rather than hatch camp to escape.

Ryuhi

@NuclearBurrito said:

@Ryuhi said:
Well look at it this way: If you hide in a corner and do literally nothing the entire game, wait for 2 gens to get done while your 3 teammates get killed, and then you sneak into the hatch getting a whopping total of 5k survival points and no pip.... do you honestly think you won?

Yes

So selling out your entire team is a victory if you contribute nothing and purposely prevent them from being able to succeed. Thats almost teamkilling level and you consider it winning. You should probably just go play battle royale games or something.

NuclearBurrito

@thesuicidefox said:

@NuclearBurrito said:
Also as legion has proved you can pip without sacraficing anyone even though that is the one thing that is very clearly stated to be required** in order to win at least to some degree**

Putting survivors on a hook =/= killing them. If you 2 hook everyone, you will almost always pip because of Chaser/Malicious, 1 point Devout (for hooking everyone), and probably at least silver Gatekeeper just because the game would have had to gone on for at least 7 or 8 minutes for you to catch everyone twice.

Also the last part IS WHAT A PIP IS! ffs

And NOT what a win is. The game specifically says that the killer needs to sacrafice people. It gives a list of things that should achieve that (as opposed to thing that are themselves goals) and then states that you should also try and stop them from doing gens btw.

However the only thing that is actually described as a goal is sacrificing. And hooking != sacrificing as sacrificing is only when they actually die on the hook.

Since you can pip without sacrificing. That means you can pip without achieving your only stated goal

NuclearBurrito

@Ryuhi said:

@NuclearBurrito said:

@Ryuhi said:
Well look at it this way: If you hide in a corner and do literally nothing the entire game, wait for 2 gens to get done while your 3 teammates get killed, and then you sneak into the hatch getting a whopping total of 5k survival points and no pip.... do you honestly think you won?

Yes

So selling out your entire team is a victory if you contribute nothing and purposely prevent them from being able to succeed. Thats almost teamkilling level and you consider it winning. You should probably just go play battle royale games or something.

Not my fault the wincon says nothing about helping everyone ELSE escape

NuclearBurrito

And this isn't really a team game. Each survivor has a slightly different wincon

My wincon is for me to escape
Your wincon is for you to escape
"you escaping != "me escaping"
thus
Your wincon != My wincon

RepliCant

I understood that was the defying line (for me) what counted as a win or not; I took in the "pipping" system as more:

You can still lose and pip 1; it just means "hey, you lost, but you weren't bad either.."

If you obviously lose and don't pip or lose a pip, it said hey... they were better than you so we're bumping you down a lil and if you keep sucking you're going down all the way

and a double pip and still losing? (it's happened, atleast for survivor) you died/destroyed but not everyone died for some reason but apparently played like a god, you still deserve to be placed with every ranked people..

So there's kinda a line separating the pip system and what you determine is a win/lose. imo

NuclearBurrito

@Ryuhi said:

@NuclearBurrito said:

@thesuicidefox said:
Pips are the win. If you want to play to some imaginary standard, don't complain about the game not fitting YOUR model. You should adapt to the game, the game should not change just for you.

And no where in there does it explicitly say you MUST KILL or MUST ESCAPE to win. It gives you a list of objectives, do those objectives and you get points for a pip. If you kill/escape it CONTRIBUTES to a win but is not the exclusive criteria for a win.

@Ryuhi said:
Pipping also works a fair bit differently now than it did when that tutorial was created, btw.

Also this. But even still, the tutorial is telling you how to pip not to 4k/escape.

Point to where it says you need to heal other survivors in order to win as a survivor.

And no I don't mean to Increase your odds of winning, I mean "if you don't do this it isn't a win"

And it's also VERY clear that one way or another your end goal is too escape

You can pip while completely ignoring a single category, if you do well in the others. You won't double pip, but even gen jockeys can middle between a black pip and a single pip consistently. Same with people who get constant safe unhooks and heals but never touch a gen. Double Pipping is an "overwhelming victory" and shows that you exceeded the norm in all 4 categories.

You can get iridescent in both benevolence and and chaser while getting silver in unbroken without a single generator being done and thus 0 progress towards what is defined as a win in the tutorial

Ryuhi

@NuclearBurrito said:

@Ryuhi said:

@NuclearBurrito said:

@Ryuhi said:
Well look at it this way: If you hide in a corner and do literally nothing the entire game, wait for 2 gens to get done while your 3 teammates get killed, and then you sneak into the hatch getting a whopping total of 5k survival points and no pip.... do you honestly think you won?

Yes

So selling out your entire team is a victory if you contribute nothing and purposely prevent them from being able to succeed. Thats almost teamkilling level and you consider it winning. You should probably just go play battle royale games or something.

Not my fault the wincon says nothing about helping everyone ELSE escape

Survival odds are based on cooperation. Not altruism to a fault, and not brutal selfishness. The overall best chances of survival are in cooperation. If there was no hatch mechanic, your idea of a win wouldnt even be possible. Its essentially exploiting a mechanic that was (awkwardly) put in place to prevent stalemates (while still creating them sometimes, amusingly enough.)

If someone was skilled enough to loop a killer for 7+ minutes and his teammates could not get a single gen done in that time, I don't care about who survives, that survivor won that game. He becomes the noble sacrifice that his team did not deserve to be matched with.

NuclearBurrito

I don't even mean "I personally didn't touch a gen"

I mean "no gens were touched by anyone"

thesuicidefox

@NuclearBurrito said:
Since you can pip without sacrificing. That means you can pip without achieving your only stated goal

"Patrol the area and find Survivors."
"Chase, injure, and catch Survivors before they escape."
"Carry Survivors to a sacrificial hook and hang them there for The Entity to consume."

None of these listed objectives state "sacrifice survivor" or use the word "kill", nor do they state you MUST do these things. If you do everything listed here WELL ENOUGH, you pip. If you also sacrificed/killed them, it still fits within these rules because if you find>chase>injure>catch>hook them 3 times that's just the end result. In such a case where they die it means you did very well, and are awarded more for a win than usual (double pip).

NuclearBurrito

Hell you can even get iridescent lightbringer without completing a single generator

NuclearBurrito

@thesuicidefox said:

@NuclearBurrito said:
Since you can pip without sacrificing. That means you can pip without achieving your only stated goal

"Patrol the area and find Survivors."
"Chase, injure, and catch Survivors before they escape."
"Carry Survivors to a sacrificial hook and hang them there for The Entity to consume."

None of these listed objectives state "sacrifice survivor" or use the word "kill", nor do they state you MUST do these things. If you do everything listed here WELL ENOUGH, you pip. If you also sacrificed/killed them, it still fits within these rules because if you find>chase>injure>catch>hook them 3 times that's just the end result.

Actually none of those even ARE the objectives. Read the lines above it:

"The main objective of a Killer is to sacrifice survivors to the entity. In order to achieve this objective, a Killer should do the following:"

NuclearBurrito

It makes it very clear that your objective is to sacrifice and that the rest is just recommended in order to do that

e8Lattice

A good rule for life in general: "The one who finishes having had the most fun wins"

Ryuhi

@NuclearBurrito said:

@Ryuhi said:

@NuclearBurrito said:

@thesuicidefox said:
Pips are the win. If you want to play to some imaginary standard, don't complain about the game not fitting YOUR model. You should adapt to the game, the game should not change just for you.

And no where in there does it explicitly say you MUST KILL or MUST ESCAPE to win. It gives you a list of objectives, do those objectives and you get points for a pip. If you kill/escape it CONTRIBUTES to a win but is not the exclusive criteria for a win.

@Ryuhi said:
Pipping also works a fair bit differently now than it did when that tutorial was created, btw.

Also this. But even still, the tutorial is telling you how to pip not to 4k/escape.

Point to where it says you need to heal other survivors in order to win as a survivor.

And no I don't mean to Increase your odds of winning, I mean "if you don't do this it isn't a win"

And it's also VERY clear that one way or another your end goal is too escape

You can pip while completely ignoring a single category, if you do well in the others. You won't double pip, but even gen jockeys can middle between a black pip and a single pip consistently. Same with people who get constant safe unhooks and heals but never touch a gen. Double Pipping is an "overwhelming victory" and shows that you exceeded the norm in all 4 categories.

You can get iridescent in both benevolence and and chaser while getting silver in unbroken without a single generator being done and thus 0 progress towards what is defined as a win in the tutorial

Which is exactly why most people don't go off of your definition of a win. Your definition completely excludes both skill and performance in favor of a static milestone that can be exploited.

thesuicidefox

@NuclearBurrito said:
And this isn't really a team game. Each survivor has a slightly different wincon

No but you would be wise to keep others alive because the more survivors there are the greater your individual chances to escape. It's in your better interest to do it to meet your other objectives.

@NuclearBurrito said:
Hell you can even get iridescent lightbringer without completing a single generator

LOL who is even saying this?

twistedmonkey

It says "sacrificing survivors" for the killer, so does that mean 1 or 2 is considered a win? you achieved your goal afterall as it doesnt exactly say how many you need .

Gen rushing is also the biggest win for survivors.

I think the tutorial does need updated and be changed to the basics of the game as a win is subjective to each individual, for me its about a fun match and making lots of bloodpoints.

Personally escaping, killing, pips dont matter as I want those juicy bloodpoints to lvl up my chars

Ryuhi

@NuclearBurrito said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@NuclearBurrito said:
Since you can pip without sacrificing. That means you can pip without achieving your only stated goal

"Patrol the area and find Survivors."
"Chase, injure, and catch Survivors before they escape."
"Carry Survivors to a sacrificial hook and hang them there for The Entity to consume."

None of these listed objectives state "sacrifice survivor" or use the word "kill", nor do they state you MUST do these things. If you do everything listed here WELL ENOUGH, you pip. If you also sacrificed/killed them, it still fits within these rules because if you find>chase>injure>catch>hook them 3 times that's just the end result.

Actually none of those even ARE the objectives. Read the lines above it:

"The main objective of a Killer is to sacrifice survivors to the entity. In order to achieve this objective, a Killer should do the following:"

Kinda amusing you're sticking to that so much for killer, since the victory message for killer is 100% linked to your pip status, and not kill count. You can displease the entity with no survivors, and you can be a merciless killer while letting them escape. Really makes you think.

thesuicidefox

@twistedmonkey said:
I think the tutorial does need updated and be changed to the basics of the game as a win is subjective to each individual, for me its about a fun match and making lots of bloodpoints.

Personally escaping, killing, pips dont matter as I want those juicy bloodpoints to lvl up my chars

Which you totally have the right to do. But because you set your OWN win condition, you shouldn't get mad at the games that just don't go your way. If you get a good group of survivors that loop and gen rush you won't get a lot of BP. It doesn't mean the game should change just for you and give you some kind of bonus BP even when you don't make a lot do you?

NuclearBurrito

@thesuicidefox said:

@NuclearBurrito said:
And this isn't really a team game. Each survivor has a slightly different wincon

No but you would be wise to keep others alive because the more survivors there are the greater your individual chances to escape. It's in your better interest to do it to meet your other objectives.

@NuclearBurrito said:
Hell you can even get iridescent lightbringer without completing a single generator

LOL who is even saying this?

Indeed it IS wise to keep others alive. That is why the game counts it as skillful and wants people who do that to rank up. That does NOT mean it is part of the wincondition anymore than cleansing totems are. Speaking of which to your other point:

I am. I did the math and if you cleanse 4 hex totems and do 87.5% of a generator then you get iridescent lightbringer. Since it is possible for that to be all of the progress made in the entire course of the game this means you can get lightbringer without completing any generators.

You can even get gold without anyone even TOUCHING a generator

thesuicidefox

@Ryuhi said:
Which is exactly why most people don't go off of your definition of a win. Your definition completely excludes both skill and performance in favor of a static milestone that can be exploited.

Exploited AND forked over by random and OP bullsnot.

HavelmomDaS1

Let's be honest here, pipping is more like a participation trophy than any indication of winning/losing. 

Ryuhi

@twistedmonkey said:
It says "sacrificing survivors" for the killer, so does that mean 1 or 2 is considered a win? you achieved your goal afterall as it doesnt exactly say how many you need .

Gen rushing is also the biggest win for survivors.

I think the tutorial does need updated and be changed to the basics of the game as a win is subjective to each individual, for me its about a fun match and making lots of bloodpoints.

Personally escaping, killing, pips dont matter as I want those juicy bloodpoints to lvl up my chars

When it comes to The Grind(tm) I consider any progress toward making my killer roster viable a victory for now lmao. Gimme a game where i die but 5 party streamers were used and I got 4 stacks of WGLF and I will give myself a "world's most glorious loser" medal.

NuclearBurrito

@twistedmonkey said:
It says "sacrificing survivors" for the killer, so does that mean 1 or 2 is considered a win? you achieved your goal afterall as it doesnt exactly say how many you need .

Gen rushing is also the biggest win for survivors.

I think the tutorial does need updated and be changed to the basics of the game as a win is subjective to each individual, for me its about a fun match and making lots of bloodpoints.

Personally escaping, killing, pips dont matter as I want those juicy bloodpoints to lvl up my chars

Yeah you can still make your arguments over if 1-3k is a win. I have a good reason to think it is specifically 4k, but it isn't conclusive or anything just a line that implies it.

Carpemortum

Ryuhi said:

Well look at it this way: If you hide in a corner and do literally nothing the entire game, wait for 2 gens to get done while your 3 teammates get killed, and then you sneak into the hatch getting a whopping total of 5k survival points and no pip.... do you honestly think you won?

Winning is most often described as achieving what you set out to accomplish. Thats why it changes so much between individuals what it is actually defined as, we don't all have the same objectives every game. Hell, I call it a win if I accomplish my dailies half the time

In a game where my survivors goal is to survive? 100% yes. Did I do well? No. Am I selfish and slimy? Yes. But did I survive/win. Yes.

Ryuhi

@NuclearBurrito said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@NuclearBurrito said:
And this isn't really a team game. Each survivor has a slightly different wincon

No but you would be wise to keep others alive because the more survivors there are the greater your individual chances to escape. It's in your better interest to do it to meet your other objectives.

@NuclearBurrito said:
Hell you can even get iridescent lightbringer without completing a single generator

LOL who is even saying this?

Indeed it IS wise to keep others alive. That is why the game counts it as skillful and wants people who do that to rank up. That does NOT mean it is part of the wincondition anymore than cleansing totems are. Speaking of which to your other point:

I am. I did the math and if you cleanse 4 hex totems and do 87.5% of a generator then you get iridescent lightbringer. Since it is possible for that to be all of the progress made in the entire course of the game this means you can get lightbringer without completing any generators.

You can even get gold without anyone even TOUCHING a generator

Why would you even base a scenario off of a killer having 4 hex perks, and a single player clensing all of them? Thats kinda on the far end of hypothetical, especially when pairing it with nobody else doing a single gen or even 12.5% of the one you also did.

NuclearBurrito

Point is. If you can (even in theory) pip without making real progress towards your stated goal then pipping obviously ISN'T your stated goal.

I wonder if you can pip without hooking, morying or bleeding anyone out.

fluffybunny

For survivor, the more you have present, the easier it is to do objectives and get out. It's ideal to help out your team. For killer, "Meanwhile, Survivors will be attempting to repair 5 generators... Killers should do everything in their power to stop them." If you do what is required to pip, you'll be doing everything in your power to stop them.

NuclearBurrito

@Ryuhi said:

@NuclearBurrito said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@NuclearBurrito said:
And this isn't really a team game. Each survivor has a slightly different wincon

No but you would be wise to keep others alive because the more survivors there are the greater your individual chances to escape. It's in your better interest to do it to meet your other objectives.

@NuclearBurrito said:
Hell you can even get iridescent lightbringer without completing a single generator

LOL who is even saying this?

Indeed it IS wise to keep others alive. That is why the game counts it as skillful and wants people who do that to rank up. That does NOT mean it is part of the wincondition anymore than cleansing totems are. Speaking of which to your other point:

I am. I did the math and if you cleanse 4 hex totems and do 87.5% of a generator then you get iridescent lightbringer. Since it is possible for that to be all of the progress made in the entire course of the game this means you can get lightbringer without completing any generators.

You can even get gold without anyone even TOUCHING a generator

Why would you even base a scenario off of a killer having 4 hex perks, and a single player clensing all of them? Thats kinda on the far end of hypothetical, especially when pairing it with nobody else doing a single gen or even 12.5% of the one you also did.

Doesn't matter. It can theoretically happen and we could assign that situation a win/lose status. And if you won every chase but 1 and they lasted a very long time and you also got a lot of unhooks ect then you can get irridencent in everything but unbroken which you can get silver in

Ryuhi

I've never seen someone get this flustered over other people having a different definition of victory.

Ryuhi

@NuclearBurrito said:

@Ryuhi said:

@NuclearBurrito said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@NuclearBurrito said:
And this isn't really a team game. Each survivor has a slightly different wincon

No but you would be wise to keep others alive because the more survivors there are the greater your individual chances to escape. It's in your better interest to do it to meet your other objectives.

@NuclearBurrito said:
Hell you can even get iridescent lightbringer without completing a single generator

LOL who is even saying this?

Indeed it IS wise to keep others alive. That is why the game counts it as skillful and wants people who do that to rank up. That does NOT mean it is part of the wincondition anymore than cleansing totems are. Speaking of which to your other point:

I am. I did the math and if you cleanse 4 hex totems and do 87.5% of a generator then you get iridescent lightbringer. Since it is possible for that to be all of the progress made in the entire course of the game this means you can get lightbringer without completing any generators.

You can even get gold without anyone even TOUCHING a generator

Why would you even base a scenario off of a killer having 4 hex perks, and a single player clensing all of them? Thats kinda on the far end of hypothetical, especially when pairing it with nobody else doing a single gen or even 12.5% of the one you also did.

Doesn't matter. It can theoretically happen and we could assign that situation a win/lose status. And if you won every chase but 1 and they lasted a very long time and you also got a lot of unhooks ect then you can get irridencent in everything but unbroken which you can get silver in

Grounding the theoretical into the realistically probable absolutely matters. Otherwise you could come up with some crazy scenario that has almost nothing to do with the game itself but results in your "win" as a sideffect. The entire point of trying to be realistic with possibilities is to narrow the x factor into something actually related to your average game experience.

and yes, in a game where you carried the hell out of your team and got almost every single category as iridescent, you won because you outperformed what was expected of you to a large degree. There are multiple factors that are beyond any individual's control in this game, which is why people are more accepting to the shifted nature of victory. Without that mentality, every single game would be survivors too scared to even touch gens, just hiding in corners and moving just enough to not attract crows. It would be a boring game that would die overnight.

NuclearBurrito

@Ryuhi said:
I've never seen someone get this flustered over other people having a different definition of victory.

When people start saying I can't balance around the in-game wincondition is when this kind of thread becomes necessary.

Ryuhi

@fluffybunny said:
For survivor, the more you have present, the easier it is to do objectives and get out. It's ideal to help out your team. For killer, "Meanwhile, Survivors will be attempting to repair 5 generators... Killers should do everything in their power to stop them." If you do what is required to pip, you'll be doing everything in your power to stop them.

One could even say that the pip conditions are the actual objectives, and the "main objective" is merely the result of accomplishing said objectives. When you accomplish your "main objective" without progressing your emblems, it means you did little to actually get your victory and were handed it on a silver platter.

Ryuhi

@NuclearBurrito said:

@Ryuhi said:
I've never seen someone get this flustered over other people having a different definition of victory.

When people start saying I can't balance around the in-game wincondition is when this kind of thread becomes necessary.

And what balance would that be? I can't think of much that would be anti-emblem progress but pro-win condition unless it specifically caters to being exceptionally scummy and griefing other players. Maybe thats why people would be opposed?

Tzeentchling9

*insert 2016 "You pipped, therefore you had fun."* meme

Eveline

Win=Pip.

Fight me. ^,...,^

twistedmonkey

@thesuicidefox said:

Which you totally have the right to do. But because you set your OWN win condition, you shouldn't get mad at the games that just don't go your way. If you get a good group of survivors that loop and gen rush you won't get a lot of BP. It doesn't mean the game should change just for you and give you some kind of bonus BP even when you don't make a lot do you?

I never do its a game why so many people get upset at others is beyond me, you win some you lose some and move onto another, no need to be salty when you get outplayed, its the best way to learn and get better.

@Ryuhi said:

When it comes to The Grind(tm) I consider any progress toward making my killer roster viable a victory for now lmao. Gimme a game where i die but 5 party streamers were used and I got 4 stacks of WGLF and I will give myself a "world's most glorious loser" medal.

Exactly, those juicy bloodpoints are worth more than anything else in the game for likes of myself , the Grind is the game as each time I get what I want I find I want more.

@NuclearBurrito said:

Yeah you can still make your arguments over if 1-3k is a win. I have a good reason to think it is specifically 4k, but it isn't conclusive or anything just a line that implies it.

Personally I cant see anything that implies 4k but if you point it out I may see it differently, if not I understand as so many may come and argue over it with you

fluffybunny

@Ryuhi said:

@fluffybunny said:
For survivor, the more you have present, the easier it is to do objectives and get out. It's ideal to help out your team. For killer, "Meanwhile, Survivors will be attempting to repair 5 generators... Killers should do everything in their power to stop them." If you do what is required to pip, you'll be doing everything in your power to stop them.

One could even say that the pip conditions are the actual objectives, and the "main objective" is merely the result of accomplishing said objectives. When you accomplish your "main objective" without progressing your emblems, it means you did little to actually get your victory and were handed it on a silver platter.

Yeah, the main objective would be the door and what you have to do to get there would be the staircase. It's fun to change the objective sometimes, though, like when you get bored and what additional difficulties lol.

Ryuhi

@fluffybunny said:

@Ryuhi said:

@fluffybunny said:
For survivor, the more you have present, the easier it is to do objectives and get out. It's ideal to help out your team. For killer, "Meanwhile, Survivors will be attempting to repair 5 generators... Killers should do everything in their power to stop them." If you do what is required to pip, you'll be doing everything in your power to stop them.

One could even say that the pip conditions are the actual objectives, and the "main objective" is merely the result of accomplishing said objectives. When you accomplish your "main objective" without progressing your emblems, it means you did little to actually get your victory and were handed it on a silver platter.

Yeah, the main objective would be the door and what you have to do to get there would be the staircase. It's fun to change the objective sometimes, though, like when you get bored and what additional difficulties lol.

I've had games where my personal objective is just to get better at looping, or to try to practice red stain mindgames at places like T/L walls. I usually won't get a 4k or survive, but I'll have improved as a player for it. And since there is no actual training mode in this game, thats about the only way to git gudder.