Need to decentivize tunneling and camping, perhaps inform newer players. - Killer main here.
Hey everybody! Relatively new here only 400 hours, but after playing killer upto Rank 1 I decided to play survivor, and found the proportion of killers that tunnel and camp every game to the ones that dont is staggering. from the 150 games Ive played so far about 3 out of 4 included a killer who tunneled of the hook, camped, or both. Ussually in the after game chat indicating this is how your are supposed to play and we were "bad for falling for it, get farmed idiot" and the like. As a killer who doesnt do this (and consequently gets more BP) I strongly believe we need something to more decentivize tunneling as it ruins the experience for the one getting tunneled. I agree and like how you have done a penalty for chasing near hooked survivor, and believe something similar should be done for tunneling, perhaps 1/4 bloodpoints for consecutive hits or the like. And perhaps some kind of new player edique guide maybe in order for I am not sure most people who do this are aware how actually unfun and rude it is to tunnel when there is someone else to chase. Anyways I hope everyone is doing well and has good clean games!
Comments
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Please read the news section top post.
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I did and it only talks about DS not tunneling as a whole which is my problem mr. Glock. unless your referring to a different top post in which case If you could direct me there I would appreciate it.
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Killers should not be punished for playing efficiently. This is an absurd idea.
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@Orion said:
Killers should not be punished for playing efficiently. This is an absurd idea.This is exactly my point. Tunneling isnt playing effectively because if they are injured they often will heal and thus not doing gens and allowing you to pressure other people. As someone who plays both sides this game is about fun and tunneling just ruins peoples day. Think about it man, or go play survivor upto lvl 40 youll see how it feels.
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@No1TheLarch said:
@Orion said:
Killers should not be punished for playing efficiently. This is an absurd idea.This is exactly my point. Tunneling isnt playing effectively because if they are injured they often will heal and thus not doing gens and allowing you to pressure other people. As someone who plays both sides this game is about fun and tunneling just ruins peoples day. Think about it man, or go play survivor upto lvl 40 youll see how it feels.
I have, and losing isn't supposed to be fun. That's one of the things that makes it different from winning. Your opponent isn't responsible for your fun; they're just trying to win.
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@No1TheLarch said:
I did and it only talks about DS not tunneling as a whole which is my problem mr. Glock. unless your referring to a different top post in which case If you could direct me there I would appreciate it.The perk change will help. If it happens to you a lot then run the perk. If you are playing killer your own actions can make it a non-issue.
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Exactly, that's why noed is a stupid designed perkOrion said:Killers should not be punished for playing efficiently. This is an absurd idea.
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@Orion said:
I have, and losing isn't supposed to be fun. That's one of the things that makes it different from winning. Your opponent isn't responsible for your fun; they're just trying to win.Yes the killer isnt responsible for the survivors fun, thats why I want BVHR to decentivize tunneling to help decrease the number of killers who do it. You still have failed to address the issue that being tunneled is unfun and unrewarding as a survivor who are players too and necessary for the game and should be considered in a minor change like this which would be similar to the penalty for chasing around a hooked survivor.
I take it you dont play survivor much.
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@No1TheLarch said:
@Orion said:
I have, and losing isn't supposed to be fun. That's one of the things that makes it different from winning. Your opponent isn't responsible for your fun; they're just trying to win.Yes the killer isnt responsible for the survivors fun, thats why I want BVHR to decentivize tunneling to help decrease the number of killers who do it. You still have failed to address the issue that being tunneled is unfun and unrewarding as a survivor who are players too and necessary for the game and should be considered in a minor change like this which would be similar to the penalty for chasing around a hooked survivor.
I take it you dont play survivor much.
Make it better for the killer to spread out damage than to kill a single survivor ASAP. I've made countless suggestions over the years on how this could be accomplished, but survivors seem less interested in making it worthwhile for the killer than just outright punishing killers for not playing how they want.
You take it wrong. I play both sides equally.
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@ColonGlock said:
The perk change will help. If it happens to you a lot then run the perk. If you are playing killer your own actions can make it a non-issue.
It will help some for the people with DS, but at yellow, green, and grey ranks many killers tunnel every game regardless of Obsession perks. I, as a killer, believe it will help the overall exiperience for everyone if killers are not rewarded as heavily for playing with a scummy style, regardless of how effective it may be. because after all, this game is about fun.
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@Orion said:
Make it better for the killer to spread out damage than to kill a single survivor ASAP. I've made countless suggestions over the years on how this could be accomplished, but survivors seem less interested in making it worthwhile for the killer than just outright punishing killers for not playing how they want.
You take it wrong. I play both sides equally.
Okay then perhaps you can see why adding a mild BP and elbem penalty for going after the same survivor multiple times on a short Cool-down would help incentivize killers who want BP to spread out damage. rather than going after the same person right after an unhook. Could add a mild buff to chaser emblem to balance this. You see what Im getting at? It would actually help newer killers win more if they adopt this play-style while being more fun for survivors not to be tunneled to death in the first 3 minutes of game. Im not asking for anything major just sort of the thing they did for proximity to hooked survivor to decentralize camping.
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@No1TheLarch said:
@Orion said:
Make it better for the killer to spread out damage than to kill a single survivor ASAP. I've made countless suggestions over the years on how this could be accomplished, but survivors seem less interested in making it worthwhile for the killer than just outright punishing killers for not playing how they want.
You take it wrong. I play both sides equally.
Okay then perhaps you can see why adding a mild BP and elbem penalty for going after the same survivor multiple times on a short Cool-down would help incentivize killers who want BP to spread out damage. rather than going after the same person right after an unhook. Could add a mild buff to chaser emblem to balance this. You see what Im getting at? It would actually help newer killers win more if they adopt this play-style while being more fun for survivors not to be tunneled to death in the first 3 minutes of game. Im not asking for anything major just sort of the thing they did for proximity to hooked survivor to decentralize camping.
Punishment doesn't work, try again.
Also, drop the act. You and I both know that getting rid of a survivor as quickly as possible is the most efficient way to play. Everyone knows that. Playing efficiently should not be punished just because you can't handle losing.0 -
@No1TheLarch said:
@Orion said:
Make it better for the killer to spread out damage than to kill a single survivor ASAP. I've made countless suggestions over the years on how this could be accomplished, but survivors seem less interested in making it worthwhile for the killer than just outright punishing killers for not playing how they want.
You take it wrong. I play both sides equally.
Okay then perhaps you can see why adding a mild BP and elbem penalty for going after the same survivor multiple times on a short Cool-down would help incentivize killers who want BP to spread out damage. rather than going after the same person right after an unhook. Could add a mild buff to chaser emblem to balance this. You see what Im getting at? It would actually help newer killers win more if they adopt this play-style while being more fun for survivors not to be tunneled to death in the first 3 minutes of game. Im not asking for anything major just sort of the thing they did for proximity to hooked survivor to decentralize camping.
And what about changes for people who just care about actually winning rather than ranks and BP?
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New DS changes do exactly that. Even if nobody in the match has DS killer doesn't know that and his choices may be impacted by his fear of getting hit by new DS.
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@Orion said:
Punishment doesn't work, try again.
Also, drop the act. You and I both know that getting rid of a survivor as quickly as possible is the most efficient way to play. Everyone knows that. Playing efficiently should not be punished just because you can't handle losing.I believe you are incorrect and know you are certainly incorrect about "everyone knows that." If you goto the best killer mains on twitch, ie ZubatLEL, ScottJund, ApeFist.. etc. They do not do this and consistently 4k at rank 1. Furthermore this feels like a personal attack, I play mostly killer and have gotten to rank one even though Im only 400 hours in and only an above average killer while not camping or tunneling, it happens.
Punishment wont stop everyone but it WILL mean they get less bloodpoints to spend on things which will have an effect on some players, especailly newer ones. And again you fail to adressing being tunneled is not fun, which I repeat again is the purpose of the game. Therefore I again assert that giving a penatly to bloodpoints and elbems for tunneling while giving a bonus to the same for not tunneling will likely change some killers to switch targets. Also this change would cause more people that only tunnel to get the "entity displeased" screen indicated that they lost while not changing the outcome for survivors ranking, I say as a response to your "you cant handle losing".Your whole drop the act bit is also insulting as I am being genuine here, and proposing what I believe would make the game better and am doing so in a positive way. I suppose there is a chance you are some kind of forum troll as evidence by 6,600+ posts however, I will hold out on the hope we can have some kind of understanding! Best wishes! (-=
TL;DR. I just want the game to be fun for everyone and decreasing tunneling will help a little bit.
@NuclearBurrito I believe this helps to address your point too.
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@No1TheLarch said:
@Orion said:
Punishment doesn't work, try again.
Also, drop the act. You and I both know that getting rid of a survivor as quickly as possible is the most efficient way to play. Everyone knows that. Playing efficiently should not be punished just because you can't handle losing.I believe you are incorrect and know you are certainly incorrect about "everyone knows that." If you goto the best killer mains on twitch, ie ZubatLEL, ScottJund, ApeFist.. etc. They do not do this and consistently 4k at rank 1. Furthermore this feels like a personal attack, I play mostly killer and have gotten to rank one even though Im only 400 hours in and only an above average killer while not camping or tunneling, it happens.
Punishment wont stop everyone but it WILL mean they get less bloodpoints to spend on things which will have an effect on some players, especailly newer ones. And again you fail to adressing being tunneled is not fun, which I repeat again is the purpose of the game. Therefore I again assert that giving a penatly to bloodpoints and elbems for tunneling while giving a bonus to the same for not tunneling will likely change some killers to switch targets. Also this change would cause more people that only tunnel to get the "entity displeased" screen indicated that they lost while not changing the outcome for survivors ranking, I say as a response to your "you cant handle losing".TL;DR. I just want the game to be fun for everyone and decreasing tunneling will help a little bit.
@NuclearBurrito I believe this helps to address your point too.
Survivors have a penalty to BP if they don't unhook safely, not to mention the risk of death, yet they keep doing it. Punishment demonstrably does not work in changing behavior. Try to think outside the box.
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But do you think that tunneling is a good fun way to play for everyone. I dont feel that simply because survivors can have DS means its okay to tunnel! People made a similar argument about camping before they added the small penalty for proximity to hooked survivor. and I observe people to camp less now for it!
Perhaps your right and a better way to do it is add a modest BP bonus for "hit different survivor" or something like that which could encourage the same thing. However what I dont see from you or many other killers is even a mild acknowledgement that it doesn't feel good to be tunneled, especially if you dont have DS or like a flashlight which understandingly triggers many killers (pallet blinds are really annoying).
And again I argue that tunneling isnt terribly effective against good survivors, for they will just keep doing gens and not having to heal. Undoubtly against bad survs who just stand around or hide it can be effective but I venture any strategy from slugging to mere gen pressure would be effective against the same!
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"Killer-main here. How do you do fellow killers, lovely weather what? What you doing? Some killing? Me too. Must be going, things to do, like killing. I'm a killer-main."
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Well, i am colorblind, and thats why i suck in chases. i cant see scratch marks, and on several maps not even generator auras (or survivor auras with perks) (this was improved, but on at least 2 maps i still can´t see them). Nevertheless, i like playing both sides. But against good survivors (which usually derank oder swf to hit me poor rank 10 killer with their two rank 2 friends) i need some strategie that does not relay on seeing that. What is your proposal for me, then? Since its hard for me to find them, and they might loose me faster than other killers, what is my compensation for not using the only taktic availible to me if i get the wrong map?
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Headphones will let you find more survivors than anything else. They pant after they've been running, you can hear footsteps even if they're chasing you, even the locker slow entry makes noise, not to mention if they've been injured. My favorite new Killer perk is Bloodhound from Wraith, if you land a hit they will never escape with the blood they're leaving behind, Iron Will be damned.
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Orion said:
@No1TheLarch said:
@Orion said:
Make it better for the killer to spread out damage than to kill a single survivor ASAP. I've made countless suggestions over the years on how this could be accomplished, but survivors seem less interested in making it worthwhile for the killer than just outright punishing killers for not playing how they want.
You take it wrong. I play both sides equally.
Okay then perhaps you can see why adding a mild BP and elbem penalty for going after the same survivor multiple times on a short Cool-down would help incentivize killers who want BP to spread out damage. rather than going after the same person right after an unhook. Could add a mild buff to chaser emblem to balance this. You see what Im getting at? It would actually help newer killers win more if they adopt this play-style while being more fun for survivors not to be tunneled to death in the first 3 minutes of game. Im not asking for anything major just sort of the thing they did for proximity to hooked survivor to decentralize camping.
Punishment doesn't work, try again.
Also, drop the act. You and I both know that getting rid of a survivor as quickly as possible is the most efficient way to play. Everyone knows that. Playing efficiently should not be punished just because you can't handle losing.it isn't about an inability to handle losing. it is about being subjected to an experience once you have been caught once as it then becomes impossible to escape. that is not a competition anynore once the first hook is had.0 -
@No1TheLarch said:
@Orion said:
Killers should not be punished for playing efficiently. This is an absurd idea.This is exactly my point. Tunneling isnt playing effectively because if they are injured they often will heal and thus not doing gens and allowing you to pressure other people. As someone who plays both sides this game is about fun and tunneling just ruins peoples day. Think about it man, or go play survivor upto lvl 40 youll see how it feels.
Except it is playing efficiently because spreading the love doesn't remove a survivor from play and removing a survivor from play increases the map pressure with a bonus of one less person available for rescues.
Not healing is the new survivor meta.
Just to make a point, why use moris? Isn't it to remove a survivor from play? What does it do to the chances of the remaining?1 -
For the 1 millionth post on this, punishing the killers is NOT how you fix this problem. You need to incentivize them with a reason to play differently. The new players also aren't playing this way because they don't know proper etiquette in the game, that's just ridiculous. They do this because even as a new player you realize very quickly what is it most effective. The games balanced to make some of the least fun strategies be the most effective.
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DS just turned into an anti-tunneling perk.... your prayers have been answered.
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@No1TheLarch said:
But do you think that tunneling is a good fun way to play for everyone. I dont feel that simply because survivors can have DS means its okay to tunnel! People made a similar argument about camping before they added the small penalty for proximity to hooked survivor. and I observe people to camp less now for it!
Perhaps your right and a better way to do it is add a modest BP bonus for "hit different survivor" or something like that which could encourage the same thing. However what I dont see from you or many other killers is even a mild acknowledgement that it doesn't feel good to be tunneled, especially if you dont have DS or like a flashlight which understandingly triggers many killers (pallet blinds are really annoying).
And again I argue that tunneling isnt terribly effective against good survivors, for they will just keep doing gens and not having to heal. Undoubtly against bad survs who just stand around or hide it can be effective but I venture any strategy from slugging to mere gen pressure would be effective against the same!
Don't get me wrong I'm survivor biased despite maining killer but tunnelling is fine now.
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@No1TheLarch said:
@Orion said:
Punishment doesn't work, try again.
Also, drop the act. You and I both know that getting rid of a survivor as quickly as possible is the most efficient way to play. Everyone knows that. Playing efficiently should not be punished just because you can't handle losing.>
TL;DR. I just want the game to be fun for everyone and decreasing tunneling will help a little bit.
@NuclearBurrito I believe this helps to address your point too.
You can't make Dead by Daylight fun for everyone. The very concept of fun is different for each person. Even then, survivors generally have fun escaping alive and killers have fun feeling powerful and killing everyone. This creates an obvious problem as a survivor cannot be running to the campfire and eaten on a hook at the same time.
You're wasting your time, friend.
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If someone gets unhooked right behind me I will go for the injured one of course, it's easier and I'm getting closer to kill one of them, and if I hook them fast enough the other one is still close by, so they aren't on a gen yet, and maybe I can still find them. And sometimes I end up tunneling even if I don't want to, because when I go back to the hook I always end up finding the one who just got unhooked first. Camping and tunneling is ok, based on the circumstances
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@No1TheLarch said:
@Orion said:
I have, and losing isn't supposed to be fun. That's one of the things that makes it different from winning. Your opponent isn't responsible for your fun; they're just trying to win.Yes the killer isnt responsible for the survivors fun, thats why I want BVHR to decentivize tunneling to help decrease the number of killers who do it. You still have failed to address the issue that being tunneled is unfun and unrewarding as a survivor who are players too and necessary for the game and should be considered in a minor change like this which would be similar to the penalty for chasing around a hooked survivor.
I take it you dont play survivor much.
Being looped is unfun and unrewarding. C'est la vie.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
Being looped is unfun and unrewarding. C'est la vie.Lol even your name indicates you as a troll. Looping the only thing a survivor can do really to use your time. Just get Enduring and Spirit fury and eat every stun and if your good with timing spirit fury you can double hit and get them AND a whole load of pallets down.
But Im sure you already know that as This here Wraith main knows that, well memed sir.
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@Peasant said:
You're wasting your time, friend.Perhaps, but BVHR did do something to hurt campers BP and Emblems for "proximity to hooked survivor" And Again I reiterate what everyone seems to enjoy ignoring that most of the best killers, ie ScottJund, Zubat, Apefist Etc etc. Dont tunnel and Still 4k the majority of games. Tunneling doesn't help the killer unless you run dying light, and hurts the experience for survivors. Just cause we cannot make the game perfect doesn't mean we can not make it better, and making tunneling a less rewarding strategy, like we have done to camping, will go a small way to help that. Furthermore I am not suggesting a huge penalty just a mild one.
Also what most of the naysayers have also ignored is my suggestion of adding a emblem and BP reward for hitting a different survivor then the one previously, which would further the idea of
@Blueberry said:
You need to incentivize them with a reason to play differently.
Thanks for all the constructive and positive responses forcing me to nuance my argument! Yall are great!
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