NOED/Endgame changes, survivor and killer prospective

Nea_Death_Experience

I hate running NOED on killer but sometimes you need to. I feel I need this because it can be really hard to win games (for me) since the ranking system is all over the place and unbalanced; this is how it feels to me. One game survivors are running away from pallets and easy downs, another game they are balls deep in an infinite and wont leave it. I admit I just need to work on my killer more but I get so stressed in some games. Really good games can be fun but a bad game is bad for the blood pressure.

As a survivor I ######### hate NOED, I am rank 6 at the moment and there are some BOOSTED killers. Missing all their hits, no mind games, 1 hook in 5 gens and they end in a 2 to 4 man because of NOED. I know you can counter it and that has become harder with the new totem placements. My entire issue with this perk is it shouldn't be needed to get kills and the perk should give less pip potential for catches and kills. Now tbh, survivors are dumb. I had a 4 man death because we tried to save the hooked dude in end game. Tbh was funny. But we could not find the totem anywhere and we got 3 or 4 of the totems.

Now that the context is done. A killer should not get a win from 1 perk, even if you can counter it if by some chance you can't for whatever reason shifting the entire game with one skill-less super speed insta down machine is not 'fair' (saying fair lacking a better word'. Killers should not HAVE to take this perk to get kills and if they do have to their rank is probably wrong or the survivors are smurfing. I believe their are 2 issues here that form this issue: ranking balance issue and killers are under prepared for issues like looping.

My ideal solutions: Bloodlust doesn't remove all stacks from breaking a pallet and makes you vault faster, recover from misses faster and break pallets faster at the cost of a tier. (is this a buff? how do you killers feel this would help?). As a survivor although this would suck it means that you wouldn't loop for too long because you want to break line of sight. As a killer I think this would speed up chases. Blood lust should also stack faster on a wounded survivor.

For NOED I think it would be fair that ability M1's don't count. So no uncloak on Wraith and Spirit into an M1 because in a lot of time that's a free hit. I think this is a fair trade for an insta down from a survivor prospective.

Please expand any idea you like; I would love to hear your theories.

HatCreature

Before I go into the Bloodlust I'd like to comment on Wraith and Spirit, their lunge post phase and uncloak is still their M1, that boost is speed is help them catch up and we always just lunge for even more speed/distance. Taking that away would basically make them Legion who can't use NOED effectively.

Anyway on to the Bloodlust, I think that's a great idea. We already have perks that do those things but having a base game boost with Bloodlust is an awesome idea because a LOT of Killer perks are situational. Bamboozle, Enduring, Brutal Strength, they solve problems the core game has but they're Perks so you could need them but never run them because you have better perks so you're underperforming. Having a small base speed and cooldown from Bloodlust would be so helpful And Bloodlust got nerfed a while back so Bloodlust isn't even a problem for Survivors as it helps win the chase but it never garuntees it because it sucks now so this could boost that up.

Arroz

@Nea_Death_Experience said:
I hate running NOED on killer but sometimes you need to. I feel I need this because it can be really hard to win games (for me) since the ranking system is all over the place and unbalanced; this is how it feels to me. One game survivors are running away from pallets and easy downs, another game they are balls deep in an infinite and wont leave it. I admit I just need to work on my killer more but I get so stressed in some games. Really good games can be fun but a bad game is bad for the blood pressure.

As a survivor I [BAD WORD] hate NOED, I am rank 6 at the moment and there are some BOOSTED killers. Missing all their hits, no mind games, 1 hook in 5 gens and they end in a 2 to 4 man because of NOED. I know you can counter it and that has become harder with the new totem placements. My entire issue with this perk is it shouldn't be needed to get kills and the perk should give less pip potential for catches and kills. Now tbh, survivors are dumb. I had a 4 man death because we tried to save the hooked dude in end game. Tbh was funny. But we could not find the totem anywhere and we got 3 or 4 of the totems.

Now that the context is done. A killer should not get a win from 1 perk, even if you can counter it if by some chance you can't for whatever reason shifting the entire game with one skill-less super speed insta down machine is not 'fair' (saying fair lacking a better word'. Killers should not HAVE to take this perk to get kills and if they do have to their rank is probably wrong or the survivors are smurfing. I believe their are 2 issues here that form this issue: ranking balance issue and killers are under prepared for issues like looping.

My ideal solutions: Bloodlust doesn't remove all stacks from breaking a pallet and makes you vault faster, recover from misses faster and break pallets faster at the cost of a tier. (is this a buff? how do you killers feel this would help?). As a survivor although this would suck it means that you wouldn't loop for too long because you want to break line of sight. As a killer I think this would speed up chases. Blood lust should also stack faster on a wounded survivor.

For NOED I think it would be fair that ability M1's don't count. So no uncloak on Wraith and Spirit into an M1 because in a lot of time that's a free hit. I think this is a fair trade for an insta down from a survivor prospective.

Please expand any idea you like; I would love to hear your theories.

When your run noed your speed is decreased in 12%/9%/6%, you only get blood lust 1, your hit's cooldown are increased in 10%/15%/20% (These numbers because since you get a instadown.. All perks should have consecuences, and noed it's not the exception you only gain blood lust 1 and your speed is decreased

HatCreature

@DudeDelicious said:
I say this over and over. 
It only takes one perk to counter ALL hex perks. 
Small game. 
You complain about a killer using 1 perk perceived to be overpowered. 
This 1 survivor perk ensures you find all totems. 
So don’t complain. 

There's also Detective's Hunch, every Gen completed shows totems within a huge radius, of course you have to find those totems after memorizing their search area so Small Game is probably better.

Nea_Death_Experience

@Arroz said:

Hey I think you blended 2 of my points here. My Blood lust idea is to make noed redundant or give killers somthing so they wont need noed.

Nea_Death_Experience

@DudeDelicious said:
I say this over and over. 
It only takes one perk to counter ALL hex perks. 
Small game. 
You complain about a killer using 1 perk perceived to be overpowered. 
This 1 survivor perk ensures you find all totems. 
So don’t complain. 

Im not complaining about the perk. THe perk sucks yes but thats not the point. Killers get boosted because they wouldnt have killed ANYONE without the perk. You should not need a perk to get kills. The point of this is to help fix killers for everyone.

Nea_Death_Experience

@HatCreature said:
Before I go into the Bloodlust I'd like to comment on Wraith and Spirit, their lunge post phase and uncloak is still their M1, that boost is speed is help them catch up and we always just lunge for even more speed/distance. Taking that away would basically make them Legion who can't use NOED effectively.

Anyway on to the Bloodlust, I think that's a great idea. We already have perks that do those things but having a base game boost with Bloodlust is an awesome idea because a LOT of Killer perks are situational. Bamboozle, Enduring, Brutal Strength, they solve problems the core game has but they're Perks so you could need them but never run them because you have better perks so you're underperforming. Having a small base speed and cooldown from Bloodlust would be so helpful And Bloodlust got nerfed a while back so Bloodlust isn't even a problem for Survivors as it helps win the chase but it never garuntees it because it sucks now so this could boost that up.

I know it would make some killers abilities useless but if you get to the end phase you basicly get free downs for stealth killers. My idea listed actually makes nurse and freddy unable to use Noed. I think the perk should be perma bloodlust till it is destroyed rather than insta downs.

Thanks for the feed back. I think this would punish looping and make the games a bit more stream lined.

GrootDude

I run small game so these killers can’t have their insta down. (Which is great for solo) but as a killer who doesn’t run noed (I mean why would a Legion main run it anyway?) your change doesn’t bother me.

George_Soros

I run Small Game every time now.
It's very satisfying to cleanse every totem, and see NOED on endgame screen

As for your proposed change: you forget what NOED is there for. It's to counter genrush and Adrenaline. Survivors, especially those on comm, can repair all generators insanely fast. Some weaker killers (Wraith, Doctor, etc) need an edge in the endgame. And if survivors are actually smart enough to cleanse, that's a fair trade: they lose time, but killer loses a perk.

e8Lattice

The more Killers take game breaking OP cancer perks into matches the faster the game will be driven into extinction / or fair and consistent balance. Only one of those two options are possible.

Here this guy said it best:

^ If Killers are happy with keeping their OP corrosive crap that's eating away at the game from within at the cost of the games long term health, well being and future then I guess that's everyones problem, including theirs.

George_Soros

Lol @e8Lattice and just what "OP" perks are you referring to? NOED is clearly not one, so what else?

Tucking_Friggered

@Arroz said:

@Nea_Death_Experience said:
I hate running NOED on killer but sometimes you need to. I feel I need this because it can be really hard to win games (for me) since the ranking system is all over the place and unbalanced; this is how it feels to me. One game survivors are running away from pallets and easy downs, another game they are balls deep in an infinite and wont leave it. I admit I just need to work on my killer more but I get so stressed in some games. Really good games can be fun but a bad game is bad for the blood pressure.

As a survivor I [BAD WORD] hate NOED, I am rank 6 at the moment and there are some BOOSTED killers. Missing all their hits, no mind games, 1 hook in 5 gens and they end in a 2 to 4 man because of NOED. I know you can counter it and that has become harder with the new totem placements. My entire issue with this perk is it shouldn't be needed to get kills and the perk should give less pip potential for catches and kills. Now tbh, survivors are dumb. I had a 4 man death because we tried to save the hooked dude in end game. Tbh was funny. But we could not find the totem anywhere and we got 3 or 4 of the totems.

Now that the context is done. A killer should not get a win from 1 perk, even if you can counter it if by some chance you can't for whatever reason shifting the entire game with one skill-less super speed insta down machine is not 'fair' (saying fair lacking a better word'. Killers should not HAVE to take this perk to get kills and if they do have to their rank is probably wrong or the survivors are smurfing. I believe their are 2 issues here that form this issue: ranking balance issue and killers are under prepared for issues like looping.

My ideal solutions: Bloodlust doesn't remove all stacks from breaking a pallet and makes you vault faster, recover from misses faster and break pallets faster at the cost of a tier. (is this a buff? how do you killers feel this would help?). As a survivor although this would suck it means that you wouldn't loop for too long because you want to break line of sight. As a killer I think this would speed up chases. Blood lust should also stack faster on a wounded survivor.

For NOED I think it would be fair that ability M1's don't count. So no uncloak on Wraith and Spirit into an M1 because in a lot of time that's a free hit. I think this is a fair trade for an insta down from a survivor prospective.

Please expand any idea you like; I would love to hear your theories.

When your run noed your speed is decreased in 12%/9%/6%, you only get blood lust 1, your hit's cooldown are increased in 10%/15%/20% (These numbers because since you get a instadown.. All perks should have consecuences, and noed it's not the exception you only gain blood lust 1 and your speed is decreased

There is a consequence. You play with three perks all match. It can be cleansed after it fires and before. It may not be needed. Git gud.

GrootDude

@George_Soros I wouldn’t bother with him. He just sits on his throne of lies thinking killer is literal easy mode.

GrootDude

Also @George_Soros I agree about seeing noed on end game screen and it not activating.

e8Lattice

@George_Soros said:
Lol @e8Lattice and just what "OP" perks are you referring to? NOED is clearly not one, so what else?

I'm not in practice of engaging with boringly tiresomely predictable brick walls whose one dimensional quality mimics that of an inwardly reflective infinity mirror. And yet I am here. Oh the futility of it all.

George_Soros

@e8Lattice said:

@George_Soros said:
Lol @e8Lattice and just what "OP" perks are you referring to? NOED is clearly not one, so what else?

I'm not in practice of engaging with boringly tiresomely predictable brick walls whose one dimensional quality mimics that of an inwardly reflective infinity mirror. And yet I am here. Oh the futility of it all.

So... no dialogue? I guess I shouldn't have started off sarcastic. But I honestly don't think that any perk in the game, killer or survivor is OP in any sense.
Some killers are, yes, but perks? I doubt it.

se05239

@George_Soros said:
Lol @e8Lattice and just what "OP" perks are you referring to? NOED is clearly not one, so what else?

Monstrous Shrine, obviously.

Arroz

@Nea_Death_Experience said:

@HatCreature said:
Before I go into the Bloodlust I'd like to comment on Wraith and Spirit, their lunge post phase and uncloak is still their M1, that boost is speed is help them catch up and we always just lunge for even more speed/distance. Taking that away would basically make them Legion who can't use NOED effectively.

Anyway on to the Bloodlust, I think that's a great idea. We already have perks that do those things but having a base game boost with Bloodlust is an awesome idea because a LOT of Killer perks are situational. Bamboozle, Enduring, Brutal Strength, they solve problems the core game has but they're Perks so you could need them but never run them because you have better perks so you're underperforming. Having a small base speed and cooldown from Bloodlust would be so helpful And Bloodlust got nerfed a while back so Bloodlust isn't even a problem for Survivors as it helps win the chase but it never garuntees it because it sucks now so this could boost that up.

I know it would make some killers abilities useless but if you get to the end phase you basicly get free downs for stealth killers. My idea listed actually makes nurse and freddy unable to use Noed. I think the perk should be perma bloodlust till it is destroyed rather than insta downs.

Thanks for the feed back. I think this would punish looping and make the games a bit more stream lined.

@Nea_Death_Experience said:

@HatCreature said:
Before I go into the Bloodlust I'd like to comment on Wraith and Spirit, their lunge post phase and uncloak is still their M1, that boost is speed is help them catch up and we always just lunge for even more speed/distance. Taking that away would basically make them Legion who can't use NOED effectively.

Anyway on to the Bloodlust, I think that's a great idea. We already have perks that do those things but having a base game boost with Bloodlust is an awesome idea because a LOT of Killer perks are situational. Bamboozle, Enduring, Brutal Strength, they solve problems the core game has but they're Perks so you could need them but never run them because you have better perks so you're underperforming. Having a small base speed and cooldown from Bloodlust would be so helpful And Bloodlust got nerfed a while back so Bloodlust isn't even a problem for Survivors as it helps win the chase but it never garuntees it because it sucks now so this could boost that up.

I know it would make some killers abilities useless but if you get to the end phase you basicly get free downs for stealth killers. My idea listed actually makes nurse and freddy unable to use Noed. I think the perk should be perma bloodlust till it is destroyed rather than insta downs.

Thanks for the feed back. I think this would punish looping and make the games a bit more stream lined.

How it will make nurse unable to use noed? this is more like a punish for noed nurses, nurse is already really overpowered and still use that trash perk? btw i think this would be worse to freddy

Nea_Death_Experience

@George_Soros said:
I run Small Game every time now.
It's very satisfying to cleanse every totem, and see NOED on endgame screen

As for your proposed change: you forget what NOED is there for. It's to counter genrush and Adrenaline. Survivors, especially those on comm, can repair all generators insanely fast. Some weaker killers (Wraith, Doctor, etc) need an edge in the endgame. And if survivors are actually smart enough to cleanse, that's a fair trade: they lose time, but killer loses a perk.

Yeah the counter to gen rush is true. But i feel that with the way they keep nurfing survivors and making it easier to find survivors and harder to find totems, survivors are getting less time in a game. How do you feel about this statement?

Nea_Death_Experience

@Arroz

My model makes it that a killer can not land NOED on a ability then quick hit. So after a blink it wouldn't count. Forget this some people have made some fair points that I didn't consider before this chat.

Nurse is not OP. Nurse is the only fair killer. Nurse doesn't fall for pallets, she looses you when she can't see you. When she predicts you, you are predictable and she is a good Nurse. If you can't break line of sight she will get you, if you run and fast vault everything she will get you.

Both Nurse and legion break con conventional portion of the game. They jump pallets and remove barriers making the survivor have to think. Legion is dumb because he gets the detection part to his power so you can never truly hide; but legion isn't OP. Nurse is weak against hiding and playing immersed. If you think the nurse is OP play her. Make sure you are healed and if she hits you make sure to break line of sight and get distance so you are outside of her blink range, use the stuns from this to gain more distance and waste time.

Even if she was over powered it does not mean everyone can start her and be over powered. Not everyone that plays her is a pro nurse main, some are doing it for dailies.

George_Soros

Nea_Death_Experience said:

@George_Soros said:
I run Small Game every time now.
It's very satisfying to cleanse every totem, and see NOED on endgame screen

As for your proposed change: you forget what NOED is there for. It's to counter genrush and Adrenaline. Survivors, especially those on comm, can repair all generators insanely fast. Some weaker killers (Wraith, Doctor, etc) need an edge in the endgame. And if survivors are actually smart enough to cleanse, that's a fair trade: they lose time, but killer loses a perk.

Yeah the counter to gen rush is true. But i feel that with the way they keep nurfing survivors and making it easier to find survivors and harder to find totems, survivors are getting less time in a game. How do you feel about this statement?

You have all the time you need if you're playing immersed. And totems are not particularly hard to find, although finding all five is tough without Small Game.

I personally don't find NOED so threatening, so I don't care much. But the way I see your approach is this: there is one particular killer perk you dread and find OP, yet for some reason, you refuse to use an easily available and very effective counter, namely Small Game. Instead, you'd have it nerfed in a way that makes it useless, especially for weak killers like Wraith. No offense, but it does not make sense to me.

Nea_Death_Experience

@George_Soros said:
Nea_Death_Experience said:

@George_Soros said:

I run Small Game every time now.

It's very satisfying to cleanse every totem, and see NOED on endgame screen

As for your proposed change: you forget what NOED is there for. It's to counter genrush and Adrenaline. Survivors, especially those on comm, can repair all generators insanely fast. Some weaker killers (Wraith, Doctor, etc) need an edge in the endgame. And if survivors are actually smart enough to cleanse, that's a fair trade: they lose time, but killer loses a perk.

Yeah the counter to gen rush is true. But i feel that with the way they keep nurfing survivors and making it easier to find survivors and harder to find totems, survivors are getting less time in a game. How do you feel about this statement?

You have all the time you need if you're playing immersed. And totems are not particularly hard to find, although finding all five is tough without Small Game.

I personally don't find NOED so threatening, so I don't care much. But the way I see your approach is this: there is one particular killer perk you dread and find OP, yet for some reason, you refuse to use an easily available and very effective counter, namely Small Game. Instead, you'd have it nerfed in a way that makes it useless, especially for weak killers like Wraith. No offense, but it does not make sense to me.

Hey man as I have stated a few times. The over all point is NOED should not be needed. THere should be no weak killers. You shouldn't have to wait to get to end game to get kills
Thats what the blood lust tweak is for.

GraviteaUK

Saying "A killer would have not got any kills without X perk" is a weird statement.

That's like me saying "That survivor would have never got out if he didn't have Urban to immerse his/her ass to high heaven"

NoED is 100% counterable either be destroying the totems or looping the poor sucker until you get out or the team finds the now lit one.

Nea_Death_Experience

@DudeDelicious

This is a good point i will include this in future comments.

KiraElijah

NOED doesn’t work on me..

Nea_Death_Experience

@GraviteaUK said:
Saying "A killer would have not got any kills without X perk" is a weird statement.

That's like me saying "That survivor would have never got out if he didn't have Urban to immerse his/her ass to high heaven"

NoED is 100% counterable either be destroying the totems or looping the poor sucker until you get out or the team finds the now lit one.

This is a factor though. I myself have killed all 4 people in exit zone with noed on a killer i was playing for a daily sacrifice. I have also been in a 4 man kill because of noed. To the point as I have stated constantly. My point of the requested change is that more deaths should happen in the early game than the late game. There is a balance that the killer is underpowered that makes noed balanced. Noed is balanced, but it shouldnt be needed.

Nea_Death_Experience

@DudeDelicious said:
The same could be said about adrenaline and self care.

On this point adrenaline is in a different box here. Adren awards a team who got the gens down and noed punishes a team that gets the gens done. NOED is balanced because if you gen rush and don't check the totems it is your fault. On the topic of self care if a player wants to sit around healing instead of doing the objective it is powerful for both sides.
I would offer that it would be better for NOED to give your bloodlust level 3 until the totem is broken and my aforementioned bloodlust changes which is the entire reason this post exists.

Nea_Death_Experience

@KiraElijah said:
NOED doesn’t work on me..

Me either unless I am getting chased the whole game.

KiraElijah

@Nea_Death_Experience said:

@KiraElijah said:
NOED doesn’t work on me..

Me either unless I am getting chased the whole game.