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Please give it chance devs
Listen devs the vast community want the buff to thana to come to live we dont want the nerf to thana to come to pass especially bad pls give the thana buff a chance if it sucks you can change it in the mid chapter and also please make it the new ds and headon not be affected by enduring they are perfect the way the are if not they will be useless
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I'm guessing the disconnect against Legion would go even higher if they did.
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Im all for the ptb thana, its a good incentive to change targets instead of tunneling.
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For my Legion, Thanato is an important role with my perk set up. That's why I don't use ruin on my Legion because its that effective. With that being said, if another Legion uses my set up while using ruin it is going to be a bad time for the survivor team.
And if they buff Thanato it would just make my build even more powerful, but IMO the perk needs to be buffed because it shouldn't only be useful for one killer.
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Yes all perks should be good so all killers can have different and fun builds to use and keep survivors geussing
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I guess people don't see it that way though, they just view it as the meta for a specific killer. So in that logic it should be nerfed and be rendered useless for every killer then right? Wrong.
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Yeah super sad i cant have one good build on one killer and put it on the next without it being lame for the killer or justput off as a meme build
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It all depends on the killer itself, their power, their speed, their terror radius, and height even plays a roll sometimes.
For some reason most people overlook this and focus on the one specific killer the perk goes well with. And the nerfs making that more obvious... (That's if they're nerfing it because of Legion, I can't think of any other reason why they're nerfing it.)
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Nothing escapes the laws of Thermo Dynamics and entropy, not even game mechanics. The tide ever changes as is the nature of all things.
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I used thano and sloppy too. I've seen many leguons that take those and ruin as well however.
Not sure if theres a point if its being nerfed. I cant help but feel it is legion related in some way.
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It’s not healthy for gameplay. Healing yourself will take 57 seconds, and will be increasingly harder to pull off due to the healing noise, and moans if you aren’t running iron will.
Some ideas are better on paper than they are in exposition.
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Well honestly Self-Care is a waste of time in and of itself, why survivor's assume its the best perk ever will forever confuse me.
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Never use it myself. So many better perks that aren't crutches to be slotted. Dont know why Killers complain about it I mean with Nurses Calling Self Care actually helps the Killer.
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But they could at least leave it as it is rather than nerf it even further. Everyone thinks irs weak at the moment anyway.
Besides they would have known how long healing takes so not sure why they announced this buff in the first place.
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Bingo.
Personally I am relieved they are not giving thana that massive buff. Imagining all 4 survivors injured in a Legion match with a 24% thana, combined with sloppy butcher would be hell. Legion players already cannot get enough satisfactory games. If that thana buff went through it would be even worse with the dc rates.
That said nerfing thana was not the way to go. It was hardly OP to begin with.
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They did give it a chance though...
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I’m going to paste Peanits response from this.
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Just my take on it: It's not good for gameplay. With the PTB values and combined with sloppy butcher, it would take a survivor ~57 seconds to self care. That's almost an entire generator's worth of time.
"That's great, though," you might say. But what ends up happening is much like what you're seeing now. Because healing takes so long, you're much better off doing generators instead and waiting for adrenaline to heal everyone. To which you might say, "But the generators would be 24% slower." While true, that adds about 20 seconds per generator (solo).
Added time to generators: 20 x 5 = 100
Time spent healing: 57 x 4 = 228
Worth noting that you might and probably will get hit more than once, so you'd have to repeat that for each time you get hit. Take your pick, would you rather spend an extra 100 seconds on generators *and* get healed, or an extra 228+ on healing and then still have the generators to deal with?
On the surface it seems like a great idea, but it's further encouraging not healing and instead doing generators as fast as possible, which I think is something we can all agree isn't fun.
That was Peanits’ reply to a thread similar to this.
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"I'm guessing the disconnect against Legion would go even higher if they did."
Other player playing like garbage douchebags, should never be a reason for a balance change.
Survivor DCing on one of the weakest killer in the game is just pathetic.
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I'm guessing the DCing against tunneling will go even higher if they do
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"Just my take on it: It's not good for gameplay. With the PTB values and combined with sloppy butcher, it would take a survivor ~57 seconds to self care. That's almost an entire generator's worth of time.
"That's great, though," you might say. But what ends up happening is much like what you're seeing now. Because healing takes so long, you're much better off doing generators instead and waiting for adrenaline to heal everyone. To which you might say, "But the generators would be 24% slower." While true, that adds about 20 seconds per generator (solo).
Added time to generators: 20 x 5 = 100
Time spent healing: 57 x 4 = 228
Worth noting that you might and probably will get hit more than once, so you'd have to repeat that for each time you get hit. Take your pick, would you rather spend an extra 100 seconds on generators *and* get healed, or an extra 228+ on healing and then still have the generators to deal with?
On the surface it seems like a great idea, but it's further encouraging not healing and instead doing generators as fast as possible, which I think is something we can all agree isn't fun.
That was Peanits’ reply to a thread similar to this."
Can we please stop acting like SLOPPY BUTCHER is a given?
If the killer choose to spent a second perk on a similar effect, he has all the rights to expect a decent result in combining them. It's called synergy.
And if survivor choose to stay injured, fine, enjoy the next chase with only 1 healthlevel.
If you want to go that route, fine, I enjoy using Bloodhound. Maybe you enjoy using IW.
If they don't want to spent the time healing, I -as a killer- enjoy the shorter chase and the easier down.
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That the killer is using 2 perks for this which stil can be softened by perks or items simply flies over some peoples heads.
Its especially jarring that they all assume the 4x injured penalty for the first person heealed. .. BY SELFCARE... you still could seek a helper for normal healing speed , but muh game/gen effiency.
A perk that punishes survivors for getting hit, making it harder to heal IS MAKING IT HARDER TO HEAL, who wouldve guessed?
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Very sensible answer.
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Please explain to me what is "sensible" about that answer?
The calculation is about the killer picking TWO perks to slow down healing and Thana at MAX effect with all 4 survivor injured.
And the survivor is using SELF CARE in this example.
So it's the most favorable situation for the killer with the slowest way to heal (without Botany Knowledge or a med kit, etc.).
And THAT is the reason for a buff to a super weak perk not making it through the PTB?
Sensible? Serious?
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The 57 seconds goes for self care or if someone else heals them as they take the same time off gens, self care is more efficient and actually faster as you dont have to spend time finding someone or running to them.
Since a lot of killers already use ruin and sloppy is it so hard to believe they would switch?
It seems a lot of the people use your argument would use it otherwise what's the big deal?
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@Wolf74 ^ There's your answer.
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Not everyone is using self care.
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Yea… "only" 84% of all player across all ranks.
Take away the lowbies that haven't even access to SC and the number will most likely go over 90% of all survivor.
But yea, you ARE righ… 10% is really" not all". :P
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Apparently I don't use this perk anymore. It's useless tbh.
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Here’s some math for you.
Survivors heal at 50% speed using selfcare, and 100% using a medkit.
Now, with the individual percentages, if we factored in PTB Thanatophobia with Sloppy, that’s a fourty seven percent decrease in speed, rendering medkits to be near the equivalent of selfcare, and making selfcare take much longer.
factor in the fact that Thanatophobia affects all actions— how would your gameplay be if everything you did only had 80% of the normal amount of charges you would apply?
It’s clear that Thanatophobia is counteracted slightly by Resilience, however, at a max of nine percent. If you’re going to change Thanatophobia, you’re going to change resilience.
Thanatophobia 2.6 PTB wouldn’t work with the already long healing time, and if you run nurses calling, it’s an easy find.
EDIT: Oh, and here’s some more math.
Healing a survivor takes 16 seconds, from one health state to another— Sloppy and thanato (according to my calculations which may be flawed), will take 22.57 seconds.
This is why it’ll never make it live— it’ll make insta heals even more of a problem. It’ll also make Nurses Calling stronger than it already is, and on ranged killers, that is a powerful tool.
EDIT2:Also, have you even considered addons that Mangle and Hemmorage? What about the Adrenaline issue killers face? If this perk becomes the way it was listed, there’s going to be a world of problems. I understand that you’re upset the perk wasn’t buffed, but there may have been some reasoning as to why the changes occurred. If you’d rather have genrush and adrenaline survivors than an actual engaging game, you do you. But no one is going to find that fun.
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And now seriously… I get all your calculations… but please tell me what is actually WRONG about this?
The killer in you example spent TWO perks to get that effect.
And you expect them to run a third perk (NC) to make it "all so easy".
Are you aware that Sloppy already applies mangled? It's not like you can stack that.
You are talking about a 3 perk build that is DEDICATED to make healing difficult.
And you always use the numbers from FOUR injured survivor, which is a very unlikely case.
Sorry, but to me that stuff is actually balanced. Your fictional killer gave 3 out of 4 perkslot to make this work and still there is a lot of situational stuff in your calculations (4 injured, right?). And you still want to deny the killer the effects he actually paid for because of… what?
Survivor entitlement?
"But it is unfair"?
I don't see your point.
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Not at all survivor entitlement. 16+22.57 is 38.57. You’re better off doing gens, which brings us back to the issue with gen rush. Do you want to have survivors constantly attack gens, and pop them, and play through the games that no one likes to play through? The perks make people push away from healing— making them run adrenaline, and not to mention that not all survivors have to be injured for pretty high calculations to be there.
I was citing examples, not restricting my entire answer to this. Thanatophobia + Any other action regression perk is nuts. I play Killer from time to time, yes, and I do play survivor, but look at it from an objective standpoint.
I want the endgame to be addressed, and I want gen rush to stop. It’s annoying to deal with— I can tell by DC’s. The killer ends up increasing the already huge issue that is gen rush. Not to mention the unnecessarily long games one may go through.
Why is that relative to Thanatophobia? See Peanits (a community moderator with well over thousands of hours on the game), and hop on the DBD discord to discuss it in game discussions. It may feel that the nerf to Thanatophobia was truly unnecessary- nor am I sure as to why that change happened, but it surely happened for a decent reason.
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Honestly I don't think they're nerfing Thanato because of Legion, that'd just be working against what they're doing for him.
I think it has to do with something else. Whatever that may be it doesn't make sense either.
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"You’re better off doing gens, which brings us back to the issue with gen rush."
A bunch of injured survivor doing gens?
I'll take that.
So I find a survivor that I lost during the chase and he is still injured and my time spend in a chase to down him is halved despite the fact that he had the chance to heal up?
Sounds good to me
I already explained a 100 times that an average hit against a decent survivor will take roughly 35 seconds.
Even in your worst case example healing up would only take 3.5 seconds longer, so in reality without everyone injured or the killer not running Sloppy along Thana, the net gain in time for healing up would still favor the survivor!
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I think the thana nerf was a bit much, but not gonna lie certainly happy the sb+thana brutality buff didn’t make it.
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Actually that buff would have made killer play like survivor always tell them to.
Spread out the damage, switch targets.
That's what survivor wanted killer to do all the time, because tunneling and camping is "cheesy" and "unfun".
Now they had a buff on PTB that would actually encourage that kind of playstyle, but survivor complain again and call it "brutal".
So in a nutshell survivor want the killer to spread out the damage and switch targets, but they don't want him to have any advantage from doing that.
Survivor want the cake and eat it.
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@Wolf74 in a perfect world we can have that, and I’d be on board but the truth is even if that happened killers wouldn’t “play fair” maybe some would but mostly people would abuse it, and then it would have to get nerfed. Why give it a chance , when people take advantage of anything on either side that can be used to produce a significantly unfair advantage.
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Playing fair? What do you mean by "playing fair"? Give free unhooks, free heals, not "tunneling"?
How should any killer "abuse" that?
What "unfair advantage" are you talking about?
Are we actually talking about the same game?
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How would you abuse something that mechanically requires you to injure multiple survivors and gives you no benefit when they die?
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Ok, so I am at work looking this over, now as a killer I do not use this perk at all. I would rather use better perks to find and kill survivors. Now with that said I am a survivor main, and like I said I am at work so I can't remember the perks name, but there are a few perks that work in favour of a survivor that is injured, how would that effect the game play and all the math equations. I am just asking.
Just have fun. The only thing that's salty is to DC.
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Scenario off the top of my head doctor not killing and just swatting in a 3 gen strat with that buff sb+thana(buff) survivors would of had no chance whatsoever Bc by the time people are done healing and the killer kicked it then gen is so regressed it would be absolutely pointless. Might as well dc.
higher tiers would abuse it(meaning build overkill) not to mention the complete drag it would be to stand in place that long. Pgtw, thana,sb on any higher mobility killer that’s good(not a noob)gg. Absolute gg. Might as well get slugged and bleed out Bc that’s how much fun it would be.
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If only there were survivor perks that allowed for faster healing, thereby countering those builds... Oh, wait, there are! So survivors would have to adapt, change the stale meta, and git gud.
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@HeroLives
I want to see that become real. If we really see Doc becoming the new top killer, just by running Sloppy+Thana becoming Omega Nurse level.
Oh but wait… no we don't want ANY killer that is really top tier, right?
A killer that is using a good perk is always "abusing" it, right?
That's the survivors perspective.
Survivor never do that, they just "use what they need to survive". Killer "abuse" powers.
#doublestandards
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Stop putting words in my mouth Bc I never said doctor would become nurse tier. I’m saying 3 gen strats take an incredibly long time now(and will probably become more common with the new killer perk) im saying holding m1 is not my idea of fun , when balance can be achieved some other way than forcing an m1 meta down my(and all other survivors)throat, or die. You’re exaggerating my words on your own behalf. You need more time? Cool find another way to do it other than making me stand in place holding a button. I want to have fun too. This game isn’t just about one side. I can promise though if a healing theme became the new meta I’d stop playing until it passed for something a lot more interactive. I can adapt, but it just sounds BORING
how would you feel if the devs changed it where most of your gameplay was standing or sitting in place as killer?
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*lol*
The "fun for all" only works for survivor. That is always brought up if survivor would "suffer", than it is all about "fun for all".
Killer don't like getting gen rushed. Survivor don't like pressing M1.
Simple solution, don't do it. Do not press M1 as survivor and both problems are solved.
XD
Get some stuff straight. This is about BALANCE, not "fun".
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@orion you know most survivors run the same thing over and over Bc you can never guess what a killer is going to have going in. Survivors incredibly predictable. Running a bunch of healing perks to get rid of perks that are more useful as far as defense/strategy all Bc anti healing got a buff no offense but the last thing survivors need is another forced weakness that’s INCREDIBLY BORING all for the sake of “buying killers time” Bc since the chasing side for survivors got nerfed I still see killers hook chasing they just do it faster now. So yeah ...that’s basically how I feel about that meta, and pray to god it doesn’t go through Bc it would kill the game for me. I already wish there was something more interactive than generators, you’re just trying to make survivors sitting ducks for most of their gameplay and I’m not with it.
if I wanted to play a game that required a bunch of timed skill checks I’d play guitar hero.
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I can’t take you seriously.
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On my life I think it would be in the best interest of the game to take generators out. Survivors hate doing them, killers hate them too. Generators create more issues than anything else Bc that’s what it always goes back to on either side.
Just remove them.
create an objective for survivors like idk I’m just spitballing here. Parts you have to find around the maps for a computer at the exit gate. It goes through a timed initialization process after each part is installed(5 parts) meaning they cannot be put on the computer to make it work back to back.
Once the last part is installed it goes through it’s final initialization process by granting access with a keycard.
Post edited by HeroLives on0 -
Sad for you. I always try to take people serious, until they prove otherwise.
You flirting pretty hard with that line.
The survivor memes are very strong with you.
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It's absolutely insane that they think this is a buff. To even have the buff you have to have all 4 survivors injured for a 1% buff. IT A NERF WHEN 1-3 ARE INJURED. #########. I love this game so much. I dislike how much crap people give the devs. But this is ludicrous and I'm absolutely furious. I hate using Hex perks, so this was my go to instead of Ruin. This perk is not strong and is hardly used. I'm completely baffled that they think this is a good idea.
The healing could be way too long, yes, MAKE IT LIKE PROVE THYSELF AND LEADER.
GET RID OF THE HEALING DEBUFF ON THANA.
STOP SCREWING THE KILLERS.
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