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Hate Legion? Let's compare them to Nurse.
I'm tired of people hating on legion, and encouraging people to d/c against him. So i'm going to point out why all your arguments for this are invalid. And I will do it by comparing them to a killer people find acceptable to play against.
1: "He has no counterplay, but the nurse does."
This is probably the biggest tub of ######### argument I have read. The nurse has far less counter play. The nurse can move through your walls, windows, ect with no power recharge. The Legion has to recharge after his fatigue, can't go through walls, pallets are a serious counter, and hits with his power are 1/4th as strong as any killers hit. (without add-ons)
"What about doubling back against the nurse?"
Have you done this against any half decent nurse? It doesn't work. A good nurse will watch you and counter it. This trick stops working for me in the single digits of rank. But if you consider this a counter (and it's not) Then you need to consider 360's against the legion a counter. His movement speed makes this tactic a bit easier against him. Is it perfect? No, but it's more reliable then doubling back against a good nurse.
2: "You still have stealth against the Nurse."
And you still have stealth against Legion. If he stabs someone and you are in his TR, you move away from him. If he comes for you, his charge will run out and he will lose his momentum.
3: "The nurse takes actual skill to use, you can pick up legion and slaughter out of the box."
It takes a couple days of playing the nurse to get her blink ranges down right. After that it's all the same skill as with any killer. Knowing the loop spawns, run paths, and how survivors like to deal with the specific killer you brought.
Legion is the same. All killers are. But I'de argue there is more of a learning curve with legion. Legion's power makes you want to run around and stab all the heartbeats, over and over. But if you do that you are almost guaranteed to lose the game. Add into it, his power is really easy to use against him. Escaping a chase shouldn't be your goal, it should be wasting the killers time in that chase. And it's very easy to waste the Legions time while your team does gens.
4: "If Legion wants you he gets you."
Sure, probably. But how long did it take him? Remember, the game isn't a loss because you died, it's a win cause you pipped and 2 people on your team escaped. The world and game does not revolve around you. Just ask your parents for confirmation. It's pretty easy to extend a chase against Legion for a gen.
If the nurse wants you, she gets you too, and if she's half decent it will be the shortest chase you've had all day too.
These are the big 4 arguments I hear when the Legion is brought up. And they are all crap. Legion isn't OP in any way. If you think rationally you can beat him. Just waste his time.
Comments
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I love you.
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i agree with you:) i really dont under stand the hate he gets and its uncalled for. i played alot of games aganst the nurse and me and my whole team died at the end lol. And yea when i play nurse im not that good with her but i still got like 2 kills. so way the hate aganst legion i dont know way he gets soo much hate?
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I like facing a good nurse, because at least I know they had to practice a bit.
You don't have to practice with Legion lol
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Trust me, my son, if you want to consistently get 3k’s and 4k’s as Legion at rank 1, it’s gonna take some learning to figure out how to stop using Frenzy in the most spastic ways possible and actually be effective with it.
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Legion main detected
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true
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You’re actually physically using this meme as a form of ad hominem rhetoric instead of just a meme?
I think this’ll be ten times more effective at birth control than being a Legion main.
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Legion is not OP at all, he is just really annoying to face
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Get the hell out of here, you legion main
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I’m struggling to take you seriously, partly because I’m unsure if you want me to.
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1.) Nurse has counterplay, Legion does not. Legion can miss as many hits as he wants in frenzy mode and not be punished. If a nurse misses her swing, she suffers from an inbuilt stun kit. So point 1 is just wrong.
2.) This is true - do not group up when playing legion.
3.) Legion doesn't take skill. All you have to do is activate frenzy, hold w and spam M1 until everyone is dead. 'Cause remember, you don't get punished for missing attacks or getting mindgamed.
4.) If legion wants you, he does indeed get you. You cannot escape a tunneling legion. They are way faster than you, can go through pallets and windows, and of course can spam M1 so no 360s and no mindgames.
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- You know what counters that counter? Being a halfway decent Nurse. The “counterplay” is irrelevant when it can be voided so easily.
- Frenzy spamming takes no skill. Legion at base takes no skill. But if you want to actually do well with Legion at high ranks and get consistent kills across the board, good luck. Using his power to its full effectiveness to create stall and pressure while actually learning to be a 110 M1 Killer (something that, ironically, will end chases much faster and more efficiently than Frenzy spam when mastered) is no easy feat. Regardless of how “uncounterable” it is in a chase, Legion’s Power in terms of actual effectiveness is undertuned to the point of being garbage, and you’re gonna need to take some time learning how to do well with it.
- Being “easy” is not synonymous with being good. Legion is one of the worst Killers in the game, if not the worst if you don’t know how to effectively end chases as a 110 speed Killer. You’re making it out like Legion is an unstoppable force when he abuses Deep Wound when that couldn’t be further from the truth; literally just do gens while he’s taking 15 years to get that 4-hit down he needs to win with Frenzy. It’s not that hard.
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Good job at attempting to evade point number 4, the strongest one. If a legion is tunneling you, you will not escape that match. As soon as the deep wounds timer is on you, you are marked for death.
As for point 1, its rare for me to ever match up against a Nurse I cannot mindgame. Since it hardly ever happens, I feel like there are barely that many good nurses. Decent ones yes, but they don't end up killing me even if they wanted me dead.
Legion at base takes no skill. Thats the ######### issue. Why would anyone bother learning cool trickshots and tips when they can just spam M1 with no cooldown at 1000% movement speed and get an easy 4k. If you play legion and genuinely dont get a 3k (Hatches dont really count) then you are just bad at pressing M1.
Nobody plays legion without addons. If he's playing naked, then maybe 1 or 2 people will get out. If he is using any half-decent addons then just stop acting like it takes 15 years to down someone when I can do it in 15 seconds.
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Legion counter the counters.
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I've gotta agree with this.
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Difference is that playing against nurse is fun and you can actually juke even really good nurses if you know what you're doing. No matter how godlike nurse someone is even they have to do guess blinks sometimes when they don't have LOS so you have a chance to mindgame then with those.
With Legion you'll just get double stabbed (super easy to do) and then he can moonwalk you for 30s and you're just down no matter what you do (especially if they use bloodhound). You can't stay in chase vs him and you can't break it since both ends up in you going down.
Ofc I'm not saying that he's strong but he is the pure definiton of anti-fun killer to verse. He just needs rework that will make him skillful to use and remove some of his BS mechanics.
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1 - yes the nurse can blink through objects but they need to predict movements, if you break line of sight on a nurse she has to blink to where she thinks you are going where as the Legion just follows your movements at a faster pace, they will always get the hit using frenzy, what other killer using there power is guaranteed a hit?
The key to the nurse is to lose line of sight, don't just double back but sporadically change directions so they cant predict movements, being out in the open with any killer will get you hit.
Bringing in 360's isn't a great idea, no good killer fails to a 360, that's a git gud case if I had ever saw one right there.
The only true counter to legion is gen rush while not healing which is not fun for either side.
2 - The Legion will see your heartbeat when in the TR the Nurse cannot, you can't stealth around the legion in the same was as a nurse or most other killers, stealth IS when you are close not when you are out of the terror radious as that's generally the safe zone already, hiding behind a tree, rock etc you can evade a nurse looking for you.
3 - The Legion uses everything a survivor does, what skill is involved in following the survivor step for step, jumping pallets and windows till you hit them? You are using the same mechanics only faster, people keep saying survivor is easy mode then what does that now make legion?
The Nurse players yes can blink through objects but that's not the only reason they are good, the players need map knowledge, how long to hold the blink, predict where the survivor goes if they lose sight, again in a straight line in the open any killer should get the hit.
4 - the Legion will get the hit and that is the problem, the argument about no counter is just that, because they can follow you step for step it's very hard to lose a legion player unless they are new or just not that great at the game.
This is the crux of the issue, they are weak as the mechanics they use teeter them on the edge and could easily be made OP with even slight tweaks in certain ways, this makes them very tedious to play versus and to be strong with them alot of players succumb to the tactic of moonwalking to break the chase to run down the mend timer.
No matter what players will always find a way to use what they have to give them the best chance, this is why legion need a a rework as they can never truly be competative with how they are designed.
Post edited by twistedmonkey on0 -
Anyone who complains about facing up against Legion should go play something else. I personally never have a problem facing a Legion. And almost always all 4 us make it out alive(unless the Legion was running a mori). The killer DOES have counter play. Those of you who say he don't, have you even bothered to try before dc'ing? It so ez to waste this killer's time a caveman could do it. And even if they catch you, its not like you insta die on your first hook. Grow up, or go home kids.
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Hag main actualy. look at my avatar.
I just like to play legion sometimes, and 3 person games arent fun.
Also the arguments against him are fundamentally flawed.
Ie:
This guy clearly didn't even read this post.
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Call me when the Nurse can exploit game mechanics designed to hindered her, then I'll start hating her more then Legion.
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You mean following a blood trail and letting someone bleed out? Sure, if you want a chase that lasts at least 1 gen, if not 2, you can do this cheesy move. And if you face camp you might even get 1 kill that game. You are complaining about a killer using a bad mechanic that takes to long.
As for cheesing mechanics designed to hinder her: Nurse ignores all game mechanics pretty much. So your argument here, is invalid. She has no mechanic meant to hinder her past her short fatigue after blinks and a 95% move speed.
point 4 wasn't sidestepped. In fact, if any half decent killer tunnels you, you are dead. If you are upset about tunneling, this is the wrong post for it.
You ever tried to escape a clown that tunneled you, or a hag? How about a Leatherface or Billy? C'mon man, stop thinking with your emotions.
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I did argue point 4, it was simply listed as point three because my device automatically makes it into a bulleted list.
- Then you simply aren't going against good Nurses. I literally don't know what else to tell you. Once you get the muscle memory down, everything else you need to know as Nurse is something you need to know as Nurse in general. Nurse's skill sets that are unique and specific to her are, frankly, really easy, including the mindgames. If you have basic prediction skills, then the muscle memory does half the mindgaming for you.
- Why would you learn how to do all that? Because Legion is the worst Killer in the game if you don't. It's either a 4-hit down, waiting for the 30-second timer to go away if you don't M1. Neither option is fast or efficient in the slightest. That's why. If a Frenzy-spamming Legion ACTUALLY manages to get a 4k, that is ENTIRELY the fault of the Survivors. During that entire time Legion is taking to spam Frenzy for a 4-hit down as well as waiting on fatigue to end and the power to recharge enough, that is more than enough time to get gens done aplenty.
- I play Legion naked all the time and consistently get 3k's and 4k's at rank 1. Don't beleive me? That's fine; I don't believe you when you claim to be able to "never meet a Nurse you couldn't mindgame".
- NO addons are going to help you end a chase faster save for Frank's Mixtape and the Cold Dirt+Joey's Mixtape combo. Outside of that, NONE of his addons will ever substantially aid you in a chase if you rely on Frenzy, because they do nothing to abate the 4-hit downs or 30-second Deep Wound timer. If you're downing people "in 15 seconds" without either of the addons mentioned above, then you're either actually M1'ing—which, if you are, good on you—or you're just flat-out lying because the math of needing to hit them twice, enter a cooldown, recharge Frenzy, hit them a third time, enter a cooldown, recharge Frenzy, and then finally down them on the 4th hit means that downing someone in a time even close to 15 seconds through M1 spam is literally impossible.
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I love it when a billy tunnels me. They have to stop at every pallet and window unlike Legion. Hag is slow as ######### so goodluck with my loops. Clowns are hard to escape, because the best thing he does is ending chases, so that is a fair shout. But I can still window and pallet stun him.
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Sight, alright let's make it real quick for you:
1. You can juke a nurse with LOS, 360s, fake 360s, running to her, faking to run to her, dissappearing after every fatigue. The fact alone that she has a fatigue is already giving counterplay, while Legion can miss and miss and miss and miss and eventually hit you after 4 misses in 2 seconds without punishment or counterplay. A nurse also can't cheese chase you like Legion can. Also, the skilllevel of survivors against Legion is the same. A 4k hours survivor main will get downed as fast as 100 hours beginner. That's not the case against nurse, which clearly shows the counterplay part.
2. In a 1v1 situation stealth isn't working, Legion has no punishment for missing an attack, he will stick on you till he downed you. Or till you got cheese chased omegalul.
3. Quit lying, Legion is a killer made for beginners, he's probably the easiest to pick up. I can juke a decent nurse with 1k hours for a very long time. But a legion with around 100 hours playtime will catch me faster. But a 100 hours nurse is going to be a clown fest, 100% will get bullied by rank 15 survivors cuz she's difficult to learn. So yeah, argument busted aswell.
4. A Legion who needs more than 60 seconds to catch a survivor is just an absolute trash killer, simple is that. Any Legion wit half a brain will catch survivor under 60 seconds (yes, without Frank's mixtape).
Pretty much all arguments lame, try again.
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What counters. Tell me a counter. I have window juked, faked, walked back after the killer vaults, used diversion, used iron will, faked the fake, literally anything you could think of. The issue is simple, and I remember a video I watched from Tru3 where its shown clearly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=185&v=mvfn3PQIGL4
Go to 3:05
Legion can spam M1 and is not punished for it. Tell me what other killer in the entirety of DBD with any addon/perks is not punished for missing attacks. You can mindgame Nurse because she is severely punished - she gets stunned. Every other killer gets a small punishment of the regular cooldown. Legion has no ######### cooldown.
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@SmokePotion Mechanic? Last I checked it wasn't intended. Nurses mechanics are.
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It is intended. It's not intended to moonwalk to your kill, sure. But if you cant juke a moonwalker, you got other problems.
It is completely intended to take bloodhound and follow the blood trail. This is, however, a losing way to play.
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Making a timer count down during a chase when it's specifically designed not to isn't intended, no matter how hard you dismiss it. You don't need to moonwalk for it to work. @SmokePotion
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If you play legion and can't even do the mindless task of moonwalking then there is no hope for you.
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I hate legion, and i don't believe in any of the statements u put in quotes. neither has counterplay, but at least not everyone can be a good enough nurse for that to actually be the case. your point 3 is only semi-right as I see the same people playing nurse weeks ago playing today and still struggling with their blinks (not just in my games). there's also the case of extra blinks or range add-ons that would support point number 3. I'll give u that.
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Again, bloodhound has existed for.....ever. Also, i just want to point out the math here, as well as the counter play.
Deepwounds has a 30 second counter on it that starts to tick after the killer no longer has line of sight of his target for 3 seconds. This is a 33 second chase at it's base. And it's pretty much impossible to break a chase immediately, even if you turn around and moonwalk immediately. 33 seconds is 1/4th of a generator or almost half if 2 are working it.
Killer then needs to go to his kill and pick it up, this chase is now closer to a minute.
All of this is ignoring the fact that decent survivors arent scared of legion, and force him to pick up chases he's trying to break, by making him see them. My longest chase playing DBD was trying to do this cheese tactic against a rank 4 survivor. They literally ran me for 5 gens, with deepwounds on the whole time. It is not hard, in the least bit, for the survivor to use this mechanic against Legion. And it is a bad tactic.
And before you try to say i must be bad, and don't know how to counter loops. I'll remind you that I'm a very Vocal Hag main that plays rank 1 naked. I specialize in 110 ms killers. I find them the most fun, but I am also a decently known Clown player at rank 1 too. I'm no stranger to countering loops.
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no one cares if its a losing way to play its boring as #########. that is the problem with legion. every chase is the same because his power ignores pallets and windows, and without his power he's a 110% killer that will not down you. legion found you? start a timer and every chase will end before that timer is up because there's literally nothing you can do about it. some people actually believe this is a good thing for the game instead of getting better at the game and learning how to end chases quick without a killer that was built for hand-holding
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@SmokePotion 30 seconds minus the second Frenzy hit and the hit that downs them.
Sure, lets justify broken #########.
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Yes, his power is to jump pallets and windows. Not ignore them.
Hit him with a pallet sometime. It's a lot easier to hit a frenzying legion with a pallet, then a blinking nurse. (And more useful, since she can blink right after, and legion wont be able to frenzy for a few. And if he does it to early, you can refatigue him)
It's really not handholding. You know you can mend right?
You can mend while looping him. You can mend when he runs after someone else, you can mend right before it puts you down.
Remember, you can mend.
I feel like people complaining about legion are the same people that go down to borrowed time.
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3:05
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I agree with most of your points, i do think people are just over reacting to legion and burried themselves deep into an echo chamber created unintentionally created by streamers when legion first came out and now won't bother even trying to find a counterplay to him and just say what everyone says without even searching if it's true or not.
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What counterplay? People like you say "Oh you guys don't bother to learn counterplay for legion" BRO WHAT COUNTERPLAY? GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE
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when every legion can respect pallets because their power allows them to, stunning them isn't really an option.
you cant mend while looping him tho? he'll just use his power again (how is that not obvious?)
yeah u can mend when he goes for someone else, boring but not why he's broken. the chase is what is wrong with him.
yeah u can mend last second, if he's slowly following your trail what do you do then? move? doesnt help that your mend bar still goes down while mending (another problem).
I feel the same people who play legion are the same people who run bamboozle because "shack and L T walls are infinites"
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The nurse is incredibly hard to play, far more hard than legion.
Far more. Who compares both with each other?
Legion is an annoying weak killer, anyone who says different, didnt play the game enough.
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This is just painful to read. How could have any survivor looped you as Legion for 5 gens if you were using moonwalking. That's literally impossible unless you stare at them and don't use your power which would mean you don't know how to moonwalk properly.
Also you stating that it's easy to do means that you are capable of looping decent Legions that moonwalk that long ? If so I'd love to see some proof of such amazing skill in action.
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When you moonwalk you are breaking sight of the survivor. It's not hard for them to loop back around you. and pick up the chase again.
It's not a good tactic against decent players.
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You legit showed one in the tru video you just shared, at the 3min5 something timestamp, by the way i agree with him and Legion should get punished for missing in Frenzy.
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I like how you are ignoring my comments now instead of just parts of it.
1.) This comment shows you don't know how to moonwalk
2.) Legion limits chase time to less than 30 seconds. The timer means a survivor cannot chase for more than it lasts. Addons make it shorter.
3.) Chase is the most fun part of the game, for both sides. Legion doesn't have a chase, just a ticking clock that will always end in the killer's favour.
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No it isn't easy to do since it's impossible. Chases currently work from killers LOS and he's the one controlling it meaning you have no chance if he knows what he's doing.
If you really belive that it's possible then show me. Add me on steam and we can test how easy it is to do. If you'll loop me for at least 1-2 minutes I'll believe you that's it's possible. I'm not really a Legion player but don't believe that any decent Legion player can be looped for longer those 1-2 minutes.
If it's as easy to do as you claim then it shouldn't be a problem right ?
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the difference is i like to play one of them and the other i want to cry at (hint: i like playing the legion)
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here is the thing:
in order to be a god like nurse, you need tons of practise. you gotta play her for hundrets of hours to master her.
legion is like, press shift, stab them, profit.
also, legion is just no fun to play against.
you get stuck in an incredibly long chase, with no way of winning it, as he will continuously catch up to you. you get chased for ages with no way of winning. that is no fun.
at least a nurse ends the chase quick AND needs skill.
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This is completely untrue. It took me about 2 days to get her blink down. If that.
Legion is weak to a pallet to the face, and can be lead to them reliably by any half decent survivor. In fact legions power is harder to master then nurses. it leads you to waste time.
Nurse you gotta hit someone 2 times, no matter what. You just have to learn blink range, which is NOT HARD. She really is just another killer, with a very oppressive power.
No matter how you shake it, Nurses power is simple, and intuitive once you use her a bit. It does not take as long as you think.
Legions power is rather weak, but kinda fun to play. It makes you want to break chases and make more people bleed. Not a good idea 50% of the time. If you take a pallet during a chase it hurts you worse then any other killer. You can be countered by Lithe or Sprint burst. If you moonwalk against a survivor that knows the game, they will exploit it, and if you wish to continue the tactic, will waste more time then M1ing them.
People keep complaining that they don't have fun against Legion. So my argument is... What are you having fun playing? Civilization?
edit: and just putting this out there again. Forcing the bleedout with deepwounds is still a longer chase then most nurse chases. In fact it's a rather averagish chase time of around 45-60 seconds till you hook and get to move on.
Keep in mind, all gens can be done in 4 mins.
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I can agree that Legion does get a lot more hate than they actually deserve, with that being said some of the hate that Legion does get is infact justified not particularly because of their existence but instead the way some people play Legion.
The big thing to consider is that if you want to compare Nurse to Legion then you're already at a loss really because the big counter to Nurse is stealth - what she has in chase power which is overwhelmingly good, she in return lacks in tracking/finding stealthy survivors. With Legion if you find at least one survivor, then anybody else in your terror radius will also be revealed unlike the Nurse who can't do that and will have to take more of their time to actually find people should they choose to play like that. Lockers can be used against Nurse unlike Legion who can just open lockers with their power (though to be fair, I wouldn't call a locker a counter to Nurse at all unless perhaps you have head on).
So for reasons like that, Legion is understandably disliked by Survivors for that reason because anybody can pick up Legion and cause an unfun experience for them, but not everybody can just suddenly pick up Nurse and cause unfun matches without a decent amount of practice. The Legion additionally gets hate for spam frenzy attacks resulting in cheap (not fast) downs, moonwalking (which is cheap and fast), mindless addons (cold dirt + joey's mixtape and frank's mixtape) which can result in downs that can compete with the speed that Nurse can down survivors but without any form of thinking whatsoever.
But for why I don't like Legion though if we wanted to put those points aside, while I do think Legion is fun to play as, they don't do their own intended job well enough. The issue is that they have to chain hit, but with their power's base duration (and potentially movement speed) it can easily be avoided by any decently far away survivor who just runs in a perfectly straight line which is where I believe Legion can be helped by increasing the base duration and rewarded successful chain hits with further increased movement speed for the remaining duration of the power to better allow for the intended use of their power.
That being said, I have my reasons to hate going against Legion but I think you've made some fair points at the very least that I think I might've overlooked.
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ofc people complain since review bombing failed and disconnecting and suiciding on the hook can be tracked aswell. people will do everything to be in a favourable spot and use everything at their disposal to make things stay the way they want to
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