Killers have no options when survivors just focus on gens
Even mobile killers can’t apply enough pressure to slow generator progression. Hitting them will only do so much and smart survivors will finish to get Adrenaline heal.
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Just bring NoeD.
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NOED counters gen rush. Use it along with Ruin. It won't slow the game down forever but it will do so for a little while so you can get pressure.
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That's what mori's and hooking is for, oh and Rancor works wonders along with Noed.
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I honestly think survivors should have a default gen speed penalty when they are hurt, otherwise it's just too easy to get Adrenaline.
The idea behind the perk is great, honestly, It rewards survivors for risking their lives, but... Doing gens is not risky at all.
If gens could be completed only by something that would make survivors run around the map, that would be great. You'd be rewarded for playing without getting caught while risking your life going around hurt but that's not the case. Sitting the hole game on a gen without doing anything but holding 1 button and get an insta heal for It is just stupid.
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Its sad but true, NOED is the only thing that does sth remotely against genrushers. Ruin debatable, but RNG and powering through... meh
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There's a perk for that.
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So you have a perk that helps you yet you still complain, would you like survivors to just spawn injured and on death hook too now?
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“helps” isn’t a word I would use when the effect is barely noticeable, but you enjoy being disingenuous so it doesn’t surprise me.
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So speaking a factual truth is being disingenuous because you can't refute it, yeah now who's being trollish.
You have perks that can help you, if you don't run them you shouldn't complain about dealing with the consequences of your choices.
It's like a survivor complaining about something and you telling them to run x perk but the effect is barely noticeable.
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the problem is that running those perks still do not provide enough of an effect to make any difference, making thier impact on the game almost negligible therefore OP’s point is still entirely valid, yet you still strawman with the usual “DEN U WANT DEM TO SPAWN ON HOOKS!” BS you usually come out with.
It must be difficult to type when you cannot see past your own nose.
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Thanatophobia 3 with the 16% debuff gives you 15 additional seconds of repair time and 3 additional seconds of healing time (with Self-Care it's 6). Assuming a single hit takes 15 seconds, this means that for every minute you spend injuring survivors, you get an additional 15 seconds of repair time (assuming they stay injured). Can you see how Thanatophobia might be completely worthless as a perk to slow down generators? Or anything, really?
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I can see how it helps more than not using it then complaining on forums about how it's impossible to fight that.
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Omfg, I cant believe I have to explain why the perk is so weak and not worth it at all... This is basic maths btw...
If you want them to heal then the penalty to repairing speed should be bigger than the time it takes someone to heal up. It now takes 30+ seconds to heal and It takes 12-13 additional seconds to repair a gen.
30 seconds is bigger than 13 seconds, therefore the perk is useless and survivors are better off just rushing anyway.
This is assuming you have all 4 survivors hurt at the same time (something just Legion or Nurse can do)
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Really? Because even under the assumption that it takes 15 seconds to get a hit and disregarding travel time, the best you can hope for is that when all survivors are injured, you're breaking even in terms of time invested and time gained.
In reality, all four survivors will not be injured simultaneously unless you slug (and slugging got nerfed multiple times), and even if by some miracle you do get them injured simultaneously, you just wasted a full minute (minimum) to get back one minute.
Tell me, when was the last time you took a survivor perk that shaved off 3 seconds from a generator and required five times as much time to activate? Never, because that's ######### worthless.
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So they should just remove the perk so you'll stop complaining about it then right and you also never ever run said garbage perk ever.
The issue with all you complainers is you want something to do all the work for you and that's not how it's supposed to work. It's there to help you not hold your hand and let you sit back and drink Martini's at the Entity's bar.
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Thanatophobia doesn't help. That's the problem. The time you put into getting the most out of it is also the time you gain by getting the most out of it. This, in essence, makes it a pointless perk to use.
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If they pumped Thanat's numbers and made it only effect Repair, Opening Exit Gates, Sabo, etc. but NOT HEALING then I think it'd be pretty solid. It would force survivors to heal in a meta where it isn't worth it to heal.
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"You also never run that garbage perk" I was going to use it when it was meant to apply a 24% debuff (29 seconds when all survivors are hurt) when 2.6.0 went live but the buff never made it because, guess what... Survivors would just struggle facing this perk 🙃
"You want something to do all the work for you" It's funny how survivors say that when they are the ones who have those tools... Not a single killer wants anything to be done for them, we just want more time in a match, that's it.
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I wouldn't say Thanat is entirely useless; when coupled with a perk like Sloppy it can be very oppressive to survivors getting the tail end of it.
I believe if they pumped up it's numbers to be a lot more potent; but made it so it didn't affect healing it would be a lot better. It would force survivors to heal in a meta where they just aren't healing that much.
Maybe instead of a minimum of 4% to a maximum of 16% at tier 3 it could be a 8% to a 32% penalty to repair speed?
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That's an awesome idea, why dont you make a thread about it so that it gets completely ignored by the devs just like the millions of posts out there saying the exact same?
Killers will never have a second chance perk unless is some kind of garbage totem or it has an incredible easy counter (unlike ######### like Adrenalie, Borrowed Time, Pre-balanced DS, etc)
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3 gens strat + tunneling then its all the matter of your skill if you play viable killers
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Killers has op addons. Its possible to end game in 3-5 mins without tunneling camping as omega blink nurse or insta chainsaw Billy . Its just too easy with certain perks. Prove me wrong. BBq is op on omega blink cause you can easily apply pressure with it you see another aura you already at them with first blink basically. Same for Billy instant chainsaw allows you to insta down another survivor you see whereever they are , whatever loop it is instant chainsaw is too strong.
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Use Ruin and Corrupt Intervention.
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If Ruin slows down your games its just a simple luck. Ruin is rng
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You've got more time in the match that's just it, you've been given more tools to help you do this and yet you complain about it. The perk isn't supposed to be all powerful and that's where the problem lies, it's supposed to help which it does.
Lets say you smack 2 and or hook 1, well you've got a debuff for doing nothing other than your objective. So you smack a 3rd while the other gets unhooked, now you've got 3 stacks.
Now you've got 3 ppl injured and not on gens, but wait you'll just say they'll play injured well then what is a good killer supposed to do.
Oh I don't know smack them and get the free down and rehook and now you've got a death hook person. If others are doing gens injured go down them and get free hooks as well.
There's the Plagues new gen lockdown perk, you've got Discordance, you've got SB which you all asked to be buffed and now are complaining because survivors adapted.
You want Thana buffed well then guess what every survivor will just adapt and you'll see 4 people running Prove Thyself or coordinating in lobby to make sure there's 2, then other will run complimentary perks.
Then guess what you're back to complaining about the next set of perks because survivors adapted to the changes.
I'm not denying killers need help but you've been given help and yet you stare the proverbial gift horse in the mouth, you got your ranking changes and now complain about it.
There's been so many positive changes for killers yet it's the same thing every patch, survivors are op in 1 sentence but then in another you admit most survivors are potatoes.
The 4 man depip swat team are for all intents and purposes a myth they're so rare and 4 competent solo's will beat you more often than swf will. If any of you run a perk you say is garbage you have no room to complain.
I don't run it and never have except for the adept because I don't like depending on a perk, the same is true for Ruin. It just makes you play sloppy and depend on it.
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You said it yourself, those are add-ons, they can only work once, there is not a single perk like that on the killers side. The only perk that can do that is Devour of Hope and it's another ######### totem...
Also, you want to talk about broken add-ons? How about we talk about broken items, you know, the equivalent to broken add-ons? Survivors have:
- Toolboxes making the match even shorter.
-Insta-heals getting someone up the second he goes down.
- Maps, which nobody uses them because guess what... Totems always spawn in the same places, you can counter killers traps as well even if you dont know where they are...
- Flashlights than can save other people from the killer's grasp and blind the killer when he is stuck in animations so that he cant follow you...
- Dont forget about keys, you can see survivors and killers with that, not to mention you can get a cheap scape with it and you can even find them in chests...
Do I have anything else to say? Oh yh... Tell me how those items are one use only just like killer's add-ons, oh wait, you cant... Most of them can be used multiple times!!!
If you come here and want to complain about op add-ons you gotta first know your role, survivors have way more broken tools than killers.
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I’m not running a mori every match. What does hooking do with generator progression? It doesn’t prevent people who focus on generators to do anything.
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Okay then i agree they all are strong so lets imagine everyone play addonless , itemless etc.
I just said it because you said that killers have nothing strong.
This:
3 gens strat + tunneling then its all the matter of your skill if you play viable killers.
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Lol what nonsense is this thread
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It forces survivor to leave gen to go for the save?
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Ok........ are survivors not supposed to do gens?
This post is like asking what survivors are supposed to do when all 4 of them are hooked in the basement together. That’s the killer’s job.
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No durr smartass. But there is nothing the killer can do to apply any form of pressure with how fast generators get completed.
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How often has anyone been affected by all their totems being destroyed before the end of the game. I honestly don't remember the last time I've run noed and all the totems have been destroyed.
They nerfed healing which is why survivors hardly use self care anymore. And with sloppy butcher it makes this even worse. They may not heal each other but if your good in chases you should end your chases extremely quick.
If you play well enough and even if your gen rushed you should at least kill 2 people with noed.
If you want to slow down gens run ruin, corrupt intervention, thanatraphobia or discordance and noed (just in case).
How much more do survivors need to be nerfed before killers are happy?
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You seriously believe all the stuff you say?
1st of all: When you say "four competent survivors are better than 4 SWF teams" you clearly dont know what you are talking about.
2nd: "Lets say you smack 2 and or hook 1, well you've got a debuff for doing nothing other than your objective." ######### do you want me to do besides doing my objective? Do you want me to go around the map to find some snacks for The Entity or something like that? If I dont get rewarded for playing my objective I'll just quit the game.
3rd: "The 4 man swat team are for all intents and purposes a myth" Dude I encourage you to face MY 4 man SWF team and you'll realize how much of a "myth" we are.
4th: "There's the Plagues new gen lockdown perk, you've got Discordance" I wont deny Plague's new perk but Discordance? In what universe does Discordance suposse a thread to Gen Rush? Gen Rush works with survivors working on different gens you smart guy.
5th and most important: "You've been given help and yet you stare the proverbial gift horse in the mouth" The only real "gift" we've got is a nerf to a perk that should have never been in the game in the first place. All the other stuff are just band-aids for a problem that devs are too afraid to deal with.
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This and @MegChicken if the survivor thinks you have a mori they always assume it's an Ebony or a Green so if it's Green you save it and really scare them. If you hook someone well guess what you just hindered gen progression.
The person on tehook sees they're not getting saved and quite often will simply suicide on the hook. You're now down to facing only 3 people and you match just got easier.
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Most survivors run sc still.
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Slower repair while injured as a base effect would be an interesting idea. I would love for them to try it in the next ptb and see how it goes.
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3 Gens strat: Since when is that a viable tactic other than with Overchage+Doctor?
Tunneling: Ok, I'll tunnel if that's what survivors want, oh wait... They dont want that, that's not fair for them. You know what? I never tunnel survivors because I think everyone deserves the fun they payed for when they bought this game but guess what... I dont a give a ######### anymore, if survivors dont care about my fun I wont care about their fun. I'll just play Billy in every single match and tunnel everyone even in 3v1 matches, good luck using your new DS against my Tier 3 Enduring (It'll probably get nerfed anyway so I might just abuse It now that I can)
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1. Wrong, I've been in 4 man solos and absolutely destroyed killers because guess what we weren't overly altruistic and if he camped we did gens. You just keep on spouting the depip nonsense, eventually you'll understand.
Oh and NEWSFLASH, most 4 man swf ARE POTATOES which is most people already acknowledge and it's also why red ranks are so sparse. Because gasp boosted 4 man swf aren't in red ranks anymore.
2.Oh good effing grief will you stop with the whining, you're getting rewarded for doing your objective whether you run that or any perk or not. That perk rewards you more than say running Coulrophobia. Which unlike Thanatobia isn't global which of course affects the entire map and all actions.
3.Now you're just grasping at straws, I said for all intents and purposes they're a myth because GASP THEY'RE SO RARE. Nowhere did I say they don't exist and if you're so great go take on Marth, Severenken etc and then tell me how good you are.
4.Hmmn it's almost as if you killers aren't complaining about survivors running Prove Thyself and popping a gen in under 30 seconds. You know by having multiple people work on the gen.
I mean it's not like you don't complain about survivors running said perk and bringing toolboxes and pounding out said gens super quickly.
5.Now we see the truth, you just can't accept that you've been given help but because it's not op it's a bandaid. Now if this perk is so trash you never ever run it right?
Lastly you've been given no help but band aid fixes, well then I guess all the survivor nerfs, killer buffs and reworks, map changes etc haven't happened in the last 2 years.
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U know when I play Freddy. I run Thanatophobia, ruin, BBQ and dying light with a black box and a mori for good measure and I win 9 out of 10 games.
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On some killers it works perfectly but on others it's a wasted perk slot and on Freddy's along with the reduced speed it's disgusting. The same is true for M&A which is great on Doc, Myers, Hag etc.
One mans trash is another mans treasure as the saying goes.
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You just dont know when you are done, dont you?
1: ######### does that even have to do with 4 SWF? The fact that you win games as solo survivor doesnt mean you are better than 4 SWF teams. It's like saying a blind person is better than someone who's not blind, that's complete nonesense.
2: Hey, survivors are getting rewarded if they do nothing, they just have to wait on a hook until his teammates unhook his ass, the gen progression is still there, which btw is super fast, the main reason why OP made this thread. But hey, Im the crazy guy who wants killers to be rewarded for playing good...
3: Are you seriously that blind that you think Marth88 or Severenken dont lose games? Now I dont know those guys because I dont like watching how other people play or stuff like that but Im pretty sure they just upload the games they win. And If they win consistently against 4 SWF is because they are playing either Nurse or Billy.
4: Dude, did you fail at maths or something? This is the second time I have to explain you how something related to numbers work? 2 people on the same gen reduces efficiecy by a 10%, Prove Thyself just takes away that debuff. That means that efficient and actual good survivors prefer to be doing different gens + that means people wont be caught as easily as if they were on the same gen.
5: Dude you dont know me and you dont know what I have inside my head so you cant just say that I'll complain about killer buffs if they are not broken. Go check my posts and comments if you dont belive me and you'll see how many times I've defended survivors when something stupidly OP has been given to killers. When you are done doing that then come back and apologize. You shouldnt speak about things you dont know.
Devs can take the nerf to Selfcare (which is the only "strong" nerf to survivors) and revert it whenever Gen Rush is fixed. Everything else in the game is actually balanced but whoever says gen speed is fine as It is right now then that person doesnt know what he's talking about or doesnt care about balance anyway. Whats the point on nerfing Selfcare if nobody heals? LMAO
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Speaking of not knowing when you're done and being completely obtuse about being wrong.
FACT: Most 4 man swf ARE POTATOES So therefore a competent 4 man of solo's will be better.
The survivor on the hook doesn't get rewarded for said gen progression and you can damage the gen(s).
The person doing the unhook is now not on a gen and now you've got 2 people doing zero gen progression.
You as the smart killer know this and damage a gen then go back towards the hook and go after one or seeing someone on a gen go after them.
They win most of their games and oh by the way I never said they won 100% of the time or that they never lost.
There's this thing called tool boxes you know those pesky things you complain about all the time. Now since Prove Thyself + toolboxe(s) equals faster gen progression.
But I guess all the killer complaints since Legion came out complaining about Prove Thyself and Toolboxes and 2 people pouding a gen out in 30 seconds were just an illusion.
If 1 person can pop a gen in 80 seconds but 2 can do it in 30 that makes 2 better than 1.
You're joking right, the SC nerf was the only nerf I guess all those pallets being removed, cow tree being nerfed, windows being reduced, maps all being more killer friendly never happened.
Lets see the nerf to stealth, oh and the EXHAUSTION NERF, yes that nerf that was only suppose to hit SB but also hit everything else.
Oh and people stopped healing because Sloppy+Thantobai make it not worthwhile and myself along with lots of other killer mains. We all warned you all it wasn't going to work like you thought. We said that survivors would adapt and change their loadouts and play styles.
Now go figure you complain about AD and the fact that survivors have figured out it's better to play for the late game and take the chance. You've got a permanent exposed effect on anyone that doesn't heal.
Yet you're complaining about it instead of killing them, do you not see the double standard there? Don't like AD well down the people not healing and sacrifice or mori them and now they won't have AD if all 5 gens pop.
The devs have already said they're not changing gen repair times beyond 80 seconds, so you all need to get over it. You can use Ruin and take the chance it stays up a long time or gets cleansed early and they've also said they're not chaning NOED which is fine btw.
None of you ever complains about when your hex doesn't get cleansed and you clean house, but oh boy the moment it dies it's the sky is falling. When that DH gets to 5 stacks and you 4k mori do you come to the forums and complain about it, no you don't.
You've got 3 top tier killers you can play, you've got a multitude of perks you can use, you can see the survivors and what they have equipped. If you play a killer you can't beat them with or choose the wrong perks that's your own fault not the survivors, not the gen speed.
Also you're right I don't know you but that doesn't figure into my argument, I'm basing what I'm writing off of what i see being said. I've also defended both side and even suggested some killer buffs that were downright op and even acknowledged it.
I also discussed ways to tweak said changes and the pro's and cons of each idea and also how each would affect it. Recently I suggested a killer qol buff which would make survivors have more of an issue.
It'd probably have a more negative impact on solo but even swf if they were all working on gens separately would be more susceptible to lower mobility killers getting them.
Now for why Thantobia change didn't come through, there's several reasons and the most obvious is Legion would be even more op. But lets look at other factors which hold it up for now. They did say they want to bring those changes back for more testing on a future PTB.
You've got the Freddy rework which depending on how far along they are thanatobia with those numbers would probably cause him problems. I.E. he'd probably need changes to his numbers.
Better to go with what they've got now and internally test him with Thanatobia changes along with whatever else they've got cooking then having to do multiple changes later.
You've got a new killer coming out later this year with Freddy rework possibly around the same time as Ash comes out. This makes sense since that way killers get something at the same time survivors do.
Now you want to have to your rework out before doing something with Thanatobia as is discussed above. Once that comes out you start playing with the Thanatobia changes in addition to the new killer later this year.
You'd surmise the new killer is going to be licensed with an inhouse survivor possibly and that allows you to test out the other perk changes they want.
This would be about the time they do the rework on the insta heals as they discussed last month(?) Perhaps something along the lines of a suggestion I made about a channeling timer.
So rather than do something they're just going to have to rework later they wisely chose to table it so they could get the Freddy rework out of the way.
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Addons allow you to end chases quicker + bbq thats how you apply pressure.
Also i mentioned 3 gens strat but you seem to ignore it. Just try to defend 3 close to each other gens in one area or another , eliminate one as fast as you can then proceed to slug if its a better option. Also with removal of old ds you can hook survivors where ever you want .Also hook them near already progressed gen that s also good thing to do
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If you dont want to tunnel just play with strong addons and bbq and apply pressure all their toolboxes wont do ######### as soon as pressure has been applied.
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