DS 5 second buff; No toxic stuff please; discussion only.
I know a a lot of people are upset with the DS 5 second change but TBH I think it is fair (please hear me out).
Disclaimer: This is 100% survivor prospective as I have played F all killer since the latest patch. I just don't enjoy that side as much not and I barely enjoy the survivor side too. So please don't blow up at me just discuss this.
New DS is an anti tunnel perk. Only works on an unhook and is to make sure you don't just get hooked 3 times in a row and die at the start of a game right? The amount of tunnelling people I have played lately is HIGH. Before this update with all this Pipping drama I use to see a lot of killer give hatch to the last survivor or be nice sometimes when someone is obviously at the wrong rank. Now every one is sweaty (Survivors more than killers tbh).
Away from context and to the point. The amount of survivors I have seen use DS and get away without help from a friend is 2 before this buff. The perk is a lemon and most of the time you get downed, DS away and down again. You waste 10 seconds and are still going to die. If you don't get tunnelled its a useless perk the whole game; if you do get tunnelled it is not a guaranteed escape.
Everyone that is complaining about the buff please think about what the perk is meant to do; stop you being tunnelled off hook. So if the perk is a serious issue what are you doing wrong?
Comments
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Isnt it a 4 second stun since the survivor is inactive for that 1st second?
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Considering the requirements and limitations already placed on it, I don't think 5 seconds is a big deal at all. I've only gotten hit by it a few times since the update anyway
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This and they said they're keeping an eye on it just as they said they said they'd after the nerf got implemented. If killers would just remember that like say the Huntress change was the same thing.
My guess is this is a short term fix and most likely is it'll revert to a 4 second change and Enduring will be changed in relation to it so both perks have meaning but aren't op. So Enduring will function normally but against DS will have reduced effectiveness.
What they might also do is change it it so that DS once the exit gates are powered it changes how it works and in any case not all 4 will be able to use it.
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I'm just amazed at the amount of Survivors who were perfectly fine claiming Enduring countered DS until it ACTUALLY did. It's like the greatest surprised Pikachu meme ever.
Also kind of upset that we're back to needing Enduring to simply mitigate the free escape.
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Countering is fine, completely negating a perk is another, it'd be like survivors taking SC and healing to full 2 seconds after being hit.
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Completely negating a perk? you mean like a Hex perk getting totalled 2 seconds into the match because a survivor spawned next to it?
Sucks doesn't it.
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Meanwhile we have entire killer powers being negated by OoO.
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....Do you not know the definition of counter?
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We have killer powers being negated by a simple flashlight even.
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Wraith isn't a great example of this anymore for the most part. Hag though...
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Yes I do, you've always complained you didn't have a hard counter yet had no issues when you had a hard counter.
[TRANSITIVE] to take action in order to oppose or stop something or reduce its negative effects
Yet that's not what you've all wanted you wanted something like where it completely negated it before the change today.
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Killers just have to wait 60 seconds after an unhook to avoid ds. No tunnel, no problem.
Go for the unhooker, not the unhookee. Played a lot of killer games since the plagues release and I haven't had a problem with ds at all.
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So then why does DS get to use the "stop something" definition when Enduring can only use the "reduce" definition?
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I don’t have a problem with the stun time being increased now that DS is more situational.
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this game is all RNG dude
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It's a 2.28 second stun when all is said and done.
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It would almost be like cleansing a hex totem yeah =)
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@ClogWench What powers. Flashlights are so hard to use compared. They counter hag traps but thats it now. I havent Light burnt a wraith in Months and I have tried.
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Being able to outright deny a power with an item in a box is pretty big. You can also remove the trappers traps with a toolbox or a perk. And you can still lightburn Wraith and Nurse.
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Well hag can easily replace them and she also knows when they get burned and how is that any different than running over them to trigger them? Wait till she's in a chase then run across every trap in sight.
Traps also respawn insanely fast even without running Hangman's and most Wraiths run Lightborn if they see a flashlight in lobby. Also both Nurse and wraiths just look away so it's not as easy.
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Tunneling is a direct counter to gen rushing.
So what is now expected to compete?
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If I was BHVR, here's what I'll do to the perk!
Decisive Strike:
Using whatever is at hand, you stab at your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape. After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike will become active and usable for 10/15/20 seconds. The timer will be paused while in a chase or in the dying state. While Decisive Strike is active, when grabbed by the Killer, succeed a Skill Check to automatically fill the wiggle meter to 100%.
- Succeeding or failing the Skill Check will disable Decisive Strike.
- Successfully stunning the Killer will result in you becoming the Obsession.
Notice that I said "fill the wiggle meter", this means you wiggled free and NOT stunned the killer. Therefore, Enduring won't affect Decisive Strike because wiggling free stuns aren't affected by Enduring. Furthermore, if I'm correct, I think wiggling free is a 2 or 3 second stun so it also nerfs the survivors head start.
Now, the timer was a problem because it was too long for an anti-tunnel timer. Survivors including myself would use the extended timer and perform risky plays when it's supposed to prevent tunneling. My changes makes the timer serve one purpose, namely, to protect the survivor while they are being tunneled.
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In regards to hag, yes you can replace them but that's not the point. And yeah you can run over them when she's in a chase but that's not necessarily the best plan. She can teleport to you and hit you when you do that. You're just completely missing my point, that it's fine for one perk to counter another when there's perks and items that have the potential to outright shut down a killers power entirely. Sure you can run Lightborn but that doesn't stop the flashlight from stunning you. And if it did, that's requiring a killer to run a perk just to counter an item that, for some reason, is extra effective against that particular killer.
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This is funny lmao. So many people wanted this and now so many people don’t (it’s technically only 4 seconds of get away time, 1 second is spent getting off the shoulder) it was a necessary buff imo. If you’re so afraid of it, run enduring. That’s a pretty good perk to run in the first place anyways.
Or
get this
d o n t t u n n e l
as a killer, Ive have no decisive strikes hit me during actual games because I simply don’t tunnel. No fun for the other living human being. At most, I’ll hit someone down from the hook on accident when they were saved right next to me and I just leave them. Why don’t more people do this with the new ds buff? Or just in general? It forces another survivor to get off a gen and come heal while you chase one. Only a single gen getting done during this if they care about altruism.
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DS needed a buff badly. It was almost useless before. It didn't stop killers from tunneling because the stun was so short.
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This is inaccurate.
The perk also looks worse to you OP at low ranks because those survivors don't know how to capitalize on what it gives you. Higher ranks don't have this problem.
Firstly, let's get this out of the way. Tunneling while not fun for the survivor, is the most effective choice for the killer. It's like the killer telling survivors not to do gens and that they should switch to a different gen every 25%. Focusing a gen down is just like focusing a survivor down, it's the smartest thing to do. You're wanting the killer to play stupid and do the least optimal choice. 1 survivor out of the game is easier than 4 and downing a survivor with 1 hit is easier than another that needs 2.
With that said, I don't tunnel myself. My issue with DS is that it isn't punishing ONLY tunnelers. If it did just punish tunnelers I wouldn't mind these changes.
When you get down to 2 or 3 survivors you are going to get hit with this inevitably even if you aren't tunneling simply because of the 60 second duration. This perk is supposed to be an anti tunnel perk, not a 60 second immunity perk. You can down someone else, hook them and then still come across the previous survivor again with that DS still active. That isn't tunneling but I'm getting punished.
The killer can also just be looking for survivors and happen to run into that same survivor again and that isn't tunneling, he just happened to run into them. That's punishing the killer that didn't tunnel again.
Now there's also running Enduring. There's already too many required perks for killers just to function at a base level and we don't need another one added to that.
Last response is to simply slug them. I find this interesting as a response as survivors NEVER want killers to slug and it's hated vehemently by the survivor only community. Also, this is just highly unreliable as a counter. Not only is there a multitude of anti slug perks for survivors to ruin this entirely, but slugging isn't always reliable to begin with. You are pushing for pressure and risking gaining nothing from that down.
I'd rather them make the perk deactivate as soon as a different survivor is downed. This means you weren't tunneled and survivors still get to keep the stronger version of their anti tunnel perk. This also means the killers that aren't tunneling won't get punished from the situations I listed.
Another option is to simply lower the duration to 40 seconds. I think that would be long enough to counter a tunnel but short enough to not punish killers that weren't tunneling.
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Ok by the same token survivors have to run Unbreakable to counter a slugging killer, camping killer well you'd better have BT. Now see how that's a double standard when saying you shouldn't have to run something?
You can see survivors items and player choices, you already know whether you're going to camp/slug/tunnel etc.
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Once again missing my point entirely.
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Everyone would get slugged always
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Why is there no perk against genrushing? Oh yeah because that would be ridiculous, but for tunneling thats ok?
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@GhostOfPastKiller Yeah my bad, sometimes the old master still shines through when I read stuff like this.
#HalfGenTimes
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its good. Come at me *Holds out arms* 😊
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When people compare tunneling to gen repairing, mistakenly called “rushing”, it makes me feel bored... if you chase someone for as long as it takes for a gen to be repaired, then you’re too obstinate to deserve a win. You should be able to acknowledge if a survivor is a good looper once you start chasing them. Why would you waste time chasing someone you know you can’t kill while another 3 potential potatoes are repairing gens while tea partying?
Either way, imagine having to hit a survivor for over 60 seconds non-stop to actually kill them? Let alone having to hit skill checks for your hit to actually land... a killer can take down a single survivor in seconds. Gens, while not a challenge for the majority, need time to be completed. So when you say tunneling counters gen rushing, really? So if the one you’re tunneling takes you for a walk around the map and all gens get repaired how did you actually countered anything? In my experience, killers always focus on those survivors that want to be chased, not on the ones that silenty crawl from gen to gen while you try to catch the rabbit. Don’t be hard on yourselves, learn when to admit you can’t win a chase. You can make the start of the game go slowlier thru Ruin or Corrupted whatever. Pick your fights wisely.
Still, not like every game is won by survivors. Unless you only consider it a win when you 4k.
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The moment they run to an infinite or do anything too skilful I'm out. Ill find them later in a bad spot and go hunt the gen jockies. Best strat, good comment.
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Nothing RNG about it.
The totem spawns are a joke, i can find a hex totem on any map in the first 2 minutes tops it's only a matter of time.
Small game even faster, not that i need it totems spawns are pretty much fixed.
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It did effect DS before they said it did the devs are just stupid and thought they could pull a fast one to look smart.
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It's all RNG dude. Pallets, Windows, Basement, check placement, hook placement, totems, windows and Gens spawn in lots of ways. There is no way you can even debate RNG isn't a thing so I will close the matter here.
I want to address your complaint about totems. When you take ruin it ######### survivors up. So in alot of cases 5 survivors go hunting to the totem and smash it and go on their merry way. What do you want us to do? Sit there and ######### about why this gen is taker longer than normal? Of course a totem isn't going to last log if it is a direct threat to our progress. If you don't NOED to be wiped asap take thrill of the hunt or somthing
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Which takes 15 seconds at least and you could still be found and imagine that, not one of you comes to the forums and WHINES when it gives you time.
You don't come and WHINE when you get kills because of it or when it stays up most if not all of the trial.
It's high risk high reward yet you can only complain when the risk doesn't pay off but when it does it's absolute silence.
The height of hypocrisy.
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That would make sense. I just honestly think it should be a two time use instead if it’s really supposed to be “anti-tunnel”
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Its fair perk has counter play and you can avoid it almost entirely by not going after the unhooked. Since its change I have only been hit twice by it.
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The problem with the perk is, it denies the killer a deserved kill.
Tunneling is for a lot of players a bad playing habit, but for others, strategy.
Strategy shouldn't be punished.
It happened so often to me, that survivors wanted to get downed with DS being up, they just ran in front of me and got away for free.
There aren't any powerful killer perks which help killing off survivors in a way, DS prevents them from killing.
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Really not a fan of this being buffed because its not actually an anti tunnel perk, its a 60 second immunity perk.
Had a game where a guy unhooked in my face, down the guy he unhooked, hit the rescuer twice and hook him, go back to the downed unhook, boom DS.
I didnt tunnel and I still got screwed by it, not a well designed perk, it should go away if the killer hooks someone else.
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Stuns are annoying in any games that exist, and the longer they are, the more people get pissed at them.
As for DS the old stun time was fine, it just needed to not be affected by Enduring.
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