Mettle of Man AND DS buff? Fantastic job, devs.
Instead of addressing gen times, poor map design, and weak killers, BHVR decides to buff a perk that shouldn't have been buffed and added a new broken survivor perk.
We can "take the feedback from PTB and live" about DS immediately, but Plague? Nope. Gotta keep Plague #########.
And for Mettle of Man, whoever decided that survivors needed a perk that allowed them to sponge a hit is the classic BHVR employee. Good job.
And before I get flamed about MoM, half the killers ignore it (and some of which are because of bugs (like Nurse)), and the other half are absolutely destroyed by it (literally every M1 killer). Yes, it's that overpowered. No, I'm not bad. Hell, I use it constantly as survivor now because of how strong it is.
Ready for all the survivor salt and bait, fite me.
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It isn’t too strong as long as you get rid of it before the end game.
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DS buff is fine, but MoM is broken.
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I'm not saying DS was fine before but the reworked version was garbage imo. It kinda deserved a little buff.
5 seconds - 75% (Enduring) = 1.25 seconds
3 seconds - 75% (Enduring) = 0.75 seconds
I like that they used the Endurance status effect for Survivors in a different way then BT, but idk, is it really that good? Everytime I used it didn't really do much for me. I also feel like the drawbacks are quite noticeable.
And y'all should chill, it's been out for a day or two and y'all are screaming. If the devs acknowledge it's broken OP, of course it's gonna get nerfed. I'm sure they learned their lesson with DS -> to not wait 2 years to fix a perk like that.
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Not saying DS buff wasn't fine, but I just love how they can take community feedback on that and not on the strength of their last two killers, especially Plague.
And especially on a perk whose rework was perfectly fine. Reworked DS was a situational perk that was still very strong in the endgame. It was fine.
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I have no problems with MoM, I hope its not nerfed to oblivion. Maybe they could make it so if you fully heal it deactivates and can't be used or gives you a broken status for 30 seconds so you can't heal 99% then take a hit and fully heal. I personally don't believe the perk is that strong, its practically a one use dead hard
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DS needs a buff that makes it so it's availible for all time you're in the dying state after you've been unhooked. so if someone farms you, killer downs you and keeps you down, ds should be availible for more than 1 min, it should be availible for as long as you stay in the dying state, but once you go back to injured, 1 min is ticking
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Yeah, no.
This just makes Flip-Flop and Unbreakable completely useless.
And also is way too flexible and way too strong.
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It's worse DH if you know how to use DH, but it also requires no active skill on the survivor end. And it is also very flexible in how you can screw over any M1 killer. Combine the two, add a little DS in there, maybe an insta heal. One chase off of a hook could lead to game over because of your second chances.
I've done ######### like this already with MoM builds. No, we're not overreacting. It's actually that broken.
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Yeah maybe they should add an exhaustion timer so you can't stack it like that, make people exhausted and broken status after use so it can't be abused. I mean the perk on its own is not op so just make it that you can't stack it with everything so it can used as intended
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@ShaneQ It's not a one use Dead Hard, it's similar to the old Borrowed Time. It can help buy quite some time mid-game and it's super powerful when the exit gates are open.
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I've said above if they make it so you can't stack with everything people will calm down because then the perk just let's you take one extra hit, the killer doesn't get stunned or anything and the chase doesn't end. If the survivor is exhausted and broken after use then they can't abuse it I think
(keep in mind I play survivor solo so can't begin to imagine what a swf can do with this, I've only faced it a few times as killer and it wasn't that bad IMO)
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Barbacue and NOED are broken and I don't see you saying that must be nerfed
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@ShaneQ How would exhaustion help? The survivor just needs to use Dead Hard/BL/Lithe before the use of MoM. And broken after MoM? That isn't a problem. The surv is injured and still in a chase anyway.
Or are you talking about a permanent broken effect until the end of the trial?
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So if MoM caused exhaustion and you use dead hard before MoM, MoM will not activate because you've used dead hard. You would have to stop running for like 40 seconds. If you used MoM, dead hard could not be used.
The broken effect would be for after use so you can't heal 99% take a MoM hit then heal,
Or else please for the love of god no, you could make survivors mend if they escape a chase after using MoM
Its not perfect but its a good way to make sure you can't combine it in a way to make yourself impossible to down
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I only play Killer.
I wish every survivor ran MoM- it’s a million times less annoying than DS was.
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This word, “broken,” I suspect it does not mean what you think it means.
They’re fine- just like MoM, just like DS was, etcetera, etcetera. Perks are designed to change the game- don’t whine about ones that do, be angry there are so many useless ones. Every perk being viable would be great- more variety and less monotony.
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MoM is not broken. DS needs the buff. If running enduring, DS is all but completely neutralized. MoM is not that bad if you plan for it. It is also not as bad as old DS was. Yes, if the whole group is coordinated and running MoM, it is very frustrating. Guess what, it is just as bad if they all run current Ds (no enduring), Dead Hard, Adrenaline and self care/empathy.
The problem is coordinated SWFs and how they can maximize the use of every perk to put certain killers at a huge disadvantage. I'm a Trapper main, so believe me when I say I've felt that frustration several times. I typically just move on because this game was broken in its design to begin with. Unfortunately, it can be very fun and therefore we torture ourselves.
Survivors have been getting whooped with the nerf stick for some time. MoM is a cookie given to them as reward. Not that big a deal.
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DS is fine, it actually hurts tunnelers, and Mettle of man is easily countered
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BBQ has 4-5 counters to it, and NOED can be cleansed. Get your trash opinion out of here.
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They buffed DS because 3 secs is actually 2 secs because the survivor cant move for 1 sec of the stun. And when the killer used enduring the stun basicly never existed.
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We were told to use Enduring to counter DS. And when it actually did, survivors complained non-stop. Hmmmmm
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How is BBQ, a perk that gives aura tracking for 4secs broken? How is NOED, the hex totem, that can be denied BEFORE endgame, baited IN endgame, and shat on by several perks and addons that survivors have broken?
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I said this in an another discussion earlier enduring has ALWAYS worked vs DS but the devs think we are stupid and tried to sound smart and make us feel stupid.
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You can prolly find vids on YouTube of enduring vs ds
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Is it? Interesting, seen as how in over 48 hours, not a single Survivor main could actually answer how Mettle of Man is countered.
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@DocOctober I said it numerous times. Is this going to become me explaining legions counters again?
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No, because the explanations given are all related to relying on perks and/or powers and/or add-ons that are limited to specific killers.
Huntress, Billy, Legion, Plague, and Leatherface are the only 5 killers whose powers are intended to ignore MoM. Trapper can kinda work around it with traps, but if the survivors are smart, he's not trapping anyone. Pig's dash attack doesn't give MoM counters, but how often does she land a dash attack?
Nurse, Hag, Spirit, and Wraith are bugged at the moment, they'll be affected my MoM consistently soon.
Myers can make it not proc as often but can't completely ignore it (unless he has a tombstone add-on, and nobody can bring in purple/pink add-ons every damn game).
The other three have zero counters at base (Doc, Freddy, Clown) and will be joined by the 4 that ignore it due to bugs (Nurse, Hag, Spirit, Wraith) and the 3 whose powers don't consistently ignore it (Pig, Trapper, Myers). That's 10 killers who don't just ignore MoM's existence, 7 of which are gonna be f*cked over by the perk no matter what.
As for perk "counters", the exposed perks do force healthy survivors into dying immediately, but if they're injured and have MoM proc'd, they sponge the hit. Same with EW3 Myers. Same goes for Redhead's Pinky Finger.
Not only does MoM exacerbate the balance problems between "viable" killers and non-viable killers, but it even cucks the most viable one so damn hard, and it requires zero skill on the survivor's end. Just tank 3 hits and off you go.
The only "downside" to MoM is the aura part. You can easily bypass it by not healing if you escape the chase. Going into dying state after sponging a hit deactivates MoM, meaning after being put into dying state, its one "downside" won't activate.
tl;dr: MoM can't reliably be countered and has almost no drawbacks whatsoever. It's the definition of a broken perk.
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MoM is a trash tier perk, Noed is a trash tier perk, Ruin is a trash tier perk, DS is a mid tier perk I would say BBQ is a mid tier perk because blood points are the only thing that matters :P But there is one perk that triumphs over all of these perks that is super OP deja vu.....
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@DocOctober Sorry, you did not @ me so I did not see the message, but I play killer and survivor equally, mostly survivor, and Mettle of man is countered fairly easily, said directly from the perk, it only charges the perk if its a basic attack, so almost all non-basic attacks will not charge the perk, secondary attacks, like the killer's power(Different depending on the killer) and I believe grabbing a survivor, Hatchets and chainsaws will not charge the perk, broken will not charge the perk (Plague), atm Nurse's "Lethal blink" will not charge it(Unless it has been patched), I think surprise attacks do not charge it aswell(Do not quote me on this), Michael hitting the survivor in Tier 3 3 times will charge the perk, but it will not work if you hook them the the same amount of times the only real issue with this perk is it hurts weaker killers than stronger ones, Freddy and Doctor MUST deal with the perk, Trapper is situational
@ me if you respond
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I don't care if you play both sides equally, your response shows a big knowledge gap.
MoM is bugged at the moment. After it's fixed, only FIVE Killers at best will be able to ignore it: Hillbilly, Cannibal, Legion, Plague, Huntress, because they have M2 Powers that deal damage.
Every single other Killer will have ZERO counter towards Mom, because they ONLY have M1 attacks that deal damage.
As for grabs: ask yourself (and be honest): how many grabs do you get in your average game? The answer is next to none because 1) grabs are very situational, require them to be injured or interacting with a Prop and 2) grabs are bugged and the few you'd get usually start off as a grab, but then transfer into a hit because the devs still couldn't fix a bug introduced with 1.9.0 well over 1 year ago.
Grabbing a Survivor is no option due to being too unreliable and way too situational, Lethal Blinks are no option, Surprise attacks are no option, Bear Traps are no option because smart Survivors very rarely walk into them.
Sorry, but a Perk that 2/3 of the Killer cannot ever counter has no place being in this game.
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I swapped over to killer this morning/afternoon on Freddy, Doc, and Wraith to bump up on some fast BP to pour into Ash, and lemme' tell ya'... every single game so far has had at least one (quite a few games have had multiples) of folks running various MoM-based builds. It's not MoM in and of itself; it's what folks are pairing it with: Unbreakable, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, etc., and different combinations of the like. Then I've had some pairing it with insta-heal sets on top of that and getting yet another free hit mid-chase. It's no longer enough as killer to simply shut them down on loops. I really do feel for a lot of killer mains now.
When you get several with a set-up like that in a game it's a massive time sink (at least with the killers I use, I don't often play many 1-hit killers, although it's becoming very apparent that I need to begin doing so). Not just OP to extend a chase, I've had them use it in multiple situations where they know a free hit is available with no fear: completing a popped totem, unhooking, healing up, gate. It turns every M1 killer into Freddy at that point.
And since at least one particular streamer has shown greatness in using it as a tank build, I tend to get that one Ash (always Ash) running in front of you mid-chase, blocking your target, with a hard-on to get his triple-stack meta attack on. No skill needed, just friggin' annoying AF. Just be a damned toxic fruit fly all game.
I always swore I'd never use NOED, but desperate times call for desperate measures. Not even sure I want to dump the BP into Ash now as I refuse to run something as broken as this new meta BS... probably better off just dumping the points into the killers to make sure they have at least NOED 1 opened up at this point.
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I think the devs have given the community too much power when it comes to dictating buffs and nerfs.
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