Is NOED broken?
Comments
-
That depends, did you break the totems? If you break the totems, you break NOED.
1 -
@NuclearBurrito All things that put the killer at a disadvantage. Why should you know that the killer is chasing someone across the map without using a perk slot for that information? Empathy or Alert let me know where the killer is chasing people just as efficiently as voice coms. More so, actually. And as for who's near the hook, is the killer camping, etc, that's what Kindred is for. If I chase someone off of a generator, and I waste my time to kick that generator instead of immediately pursuing chase, then why should someone else know exactly where to go to completely negate my wasted time? I kicked that gen so that while I'm chasing the person, it'll regress. Not so that someone can come from half way across the map to finish it, or stop the regression. And knowing your teammates perks is already built into the game. If someone unhooks you with We'll Make It, then you get a pop up on the left saying so. If someone has Prove Thyself, there's an icon in the bottom right when they're close to you. If someone has Borrowed Time, it tells you when you get unhooked.
0 -
@Incirion to answer all of those questions:
Because those are advantages the Killer needs to deal with NOW even if nothing changes. However giving Killers the power to deal with that level of information comes at the cost of solos.
Thus you need to give solo's these information buffs (technically everyone, but SWF already has that info) and then give Killers massive buffs to compensate.
Buffs to one side + Buffs to the other = overall neutral.
Empathy/Alert/Bond/Kindred are valid for things like accuracy. But knowing someone is right next to the hook (remember Kindred reveals the whole map) and if the hooked player is in the Killers terror radius (Kindred reveals his exact location too and even reveals if the Killer ISN'T in the terror radius such as insidious or pig) are things that need to be available to all players instead of just half of them so we can balance around those factors.
Basically, solo's should get these without a perkslot because SWF already have that and more.
1 -
Also, yes I know there is the perk slot thing, but for example it is useful to know of someone has adrenaline, MoM or if someone who is GOING for a hooks has BT (not as the person on the hook)
It's also good to know if someone has a perk like self care, decisive strike, unbreakable, deliverance, object of obsession ect ect ect. This has gotten better over time but improvement is very much possible and changes are not made in isolation
0 -
I don’t get the point of having so many threads about NOED. Everyone has a varying opinion and when somebody doesn’t agree with you then they jump down your throat. NOED isn’t going anywhere, it might be broken but everything else in this game is so what is the big damn deal?
0 -
@NuclearBurrito Yes, they are all things the killer has to deal with now, but my point is that they are things the killer shouldn't have to deal with. That's the main reason why SWF is unbalanced. Because every person knows information as if they had perks that are designed to specifically give you that information.
Then as killer the voice coms completely negate some of your power. Knock-Out is, in theory, a REALLY great perk. Unless you bring voice coms into it. "Oh ######### I can't see you." "Oh I'm over here." Perk completely negated. Same with any blindness add on, and Third Seal.
Insidious is a great perk unless the person says "Nah he's standing right here."
Killer stops to look around for BBQ auras after hooking, person who gets hooked "Killer has BBQ, he's headed towards this person."
This is information that the Survivors should not have. That's why they removed the ability to see the killers perks after you die. AND PEOPLE COMPLAINED ABOUT THAT.
0 -
"jUsT cLeAnSe ToTeMs 4Head"
Imagine doing everything right the whole match, fixing gens, evading the killer, saving your teammates etc. just to get slapped by NOED and get camped because the killer is incompetent and can't get a kill without it.
If it was that easy to cleanse all the dull totems, people wouldn't be complaining.
Like, do you really expect me to run around a map bigger than Jane's butt, find and cleanse dull totems while my teammates last only around 25-30 seconds in a chase almost every game? Those are the games that do not give me enough time to actually do all the totems. Not to mention, if you play solo, chances are that someone already cleansed them, so you'll be wasting your time searching for them instead of doing, you know, your actual objective - gens.
0 -
I had a game last about 7 minutes yesterday @FeelsVeryBadMan . The Survivors cleansed all 5 totems, and finished all 5 generators, in 7 minuets. It REALLY isn't hard to find the totems. just look around the tiles as you run through them looking for generators. If you see a totem, cleanse it. Don't worry about getting all 5 by yourself, solo or not. If EVERY SINGLE PERSON would cleanse totems as soon as they see them, then NOED would never be an issue. The issue is that Survivors are way too lazy to stop and take 10 seconds to cleanse a dull totem, even though it's 600 points, just because they want to move on and do a generator instead. So nerf a mediocre killer perk, because Survivors are too lazy to actually fix it.
1 -
I mean if you have someone with Small Game or Detective's Hunch probably. I'd say check the map for totems, maybe sure they're broken down.
0 -
@Incirion the issue is that you can't nerf VC. No matter how hard you try survivors can always use discord. There is no guarantee that any VC system they use is even on the same hardware as the game. Let alone the in game VC, so having the game directly react to using VC is right out.
The only games that can pull off those kinds of rules are ones where VC isn't a reliable method of bypassing communication limitations. And the only games that can pull THAT off are social deduction games.
They can do it because anyone you put in a VC with you could be an enemy without you realizing it. And people that start out knowing for a fact that they are allies are typically put in a private chat anyway making a VC redundant for them.
This is not a social deduction game however, survivors know for a fact that the other 3 players they qued up with are 100% going to be on their side and thus can trust that a VC won't leak information to the Killer.
And no, enforcing rules against 3rd party chats is not feasible. Most SWF groups are 4 man groups so the only person reporting would be the Killer. And how is he supposed to reliably tell if a group is survive with friends? They can't because the difference between a SWF group and a group of really good Solo's are not easy to spot from the PoV of the Killer in most cases. Sure in terms of big picture you could tell, but the Killer won't even know to report, and there would be far too many false reports as well so going through it by hand would take too long to be feasible. That leaves automated methods of figuring out if someone has more information than they should as opposed to being observant, good at making predictions or lucky. If they can design such a system when they can't even get Spirit's phase audio to work properly then I would be shocked.
So that just leaves accepting it and balancing accordingly. Most perks do have an advantage over SWF trying to communicate the same information. The biggest one being speed of communication. Sure in theory you could relay your exact location to everyone else at all times, but it isn't practical to do so. Even if you are downed with knock out you are at best going to be able to give a rough area instead of an exact location. The only time you can give a precise location is when you are next to a landmark. And the most important landmark is a hooked survivor. Btw this is why I'm not pushing for auras of items a survivor interacts with to be shown, that would give SWF teams more power when we don't have to and that's not what we want.
Also the point of insidious is to use it while out of LoS meaning that if someone is using SWF to call out your location while using it then you are doing it wrong. Doesn't really negate what you said but just saying.
0 -
yes it is. The totems are a second objective. The devs went on stream and said it's fine they have stats and such showing them that it's fine IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE CHANGED STOP WHINNING
1 -
I play both survivor and killer and there is no problem with NOED. It's a chance perk, there's a chance the killer might be able to use it, and also the survivor might get hit before it's broken. That's the point of the perk. You guys are on these forums like the games a MOBA or something like this is something with no counter and is blatantly OP which it's not. Seriously stop coming and making a thread after you die to NOED and start crying how it's OP. You're not guaranteed to survive sometimes you die even though you did everything "right", that's the name of the game ok. This game is centered around the killer and people just get attached to the survivors and think that the game should make sure they live every single time THATS NOT HOW THIS WORKS. I'm serious for the love of anything on this planet stop making NOED threads they're a waste of time, just break totems and for you who are like "I can't look for totems I got to do gens" well A. you're blind or B. your teammates and or friends are useless.
0 -
@NuclearBurrito I know they cant fix it, but that's the biggest reason the balance is broken.
0 -
NOED is literally the killer sacrificing a perk slot for one final gambit and there are so many counters to this that unless you get lucky and the survivors don't cleanse all the totems, you have ONE SHOT to get a sac at the end because once you strike a survivor, the totem hunt will begin which will take all of 1min or so for seasoned survivors.
That is ASSUMING Flashlight Jesus doesn't stun you during the pickup you had better had downed a survivor who is dead on hook or chances are they will STILL escape due to...oh hell i'll make a list:
- Borrowed Time
- Mettle Of Man
- Pallet Looping you
- Totem gets blown up in less than 30 seconds after you down a survivor.
- Decisive Strike
- The hatch
That is literally six ways you can get screwed over in the end game even with NOED active and hell, that's an abridged list!
2 -
you might not be able to nerf VC but we can give the killer something to help against it , we can assume anyone who is playing SWF is in voice comms (since discord is so easy to use) so for anyone who goes into match on SWF intermittently the killer will get a noise notification of where they are (this representing the players speaking to each other).
this could give the killer power to fight against the swf without punishing the solo
1 -
@holywhitetrash still not a viable solution. Lobby's have a pregame chat (already important for bridging the gap between solo's and SWF) which can be used to exchange a discord server invite.
And even if they didn't you can use steam profiles
And even if no one wanted to people can just join games randomly until they are with their friends in order to bypass the punishment. I have done so myself with worse odds, in a more tedious setup to bypass less meaningful drawbacks. Or in otherwords some solo's might be using VC too and more will do so if using SWF has a direct rules alteration.
Also, that's basically just removing SWF entirely unless you are a tryhard looper thus eliminating any possible stealth gameplay. The backlash from such a change cannot be overstated.
DO NOT TRY TO ASSUME YOU CAN TELL IF SOMEONE IS SWF.
0 -
All killer says Noed is easily countered, but all killers have it. Same as Hex Ruin, and same as barbacue, all killers have it only for the points. Lol
0 -
As balanced as a hex perk gets. Its useless for 90% of the match and can be broken after activation, so I see very little to complain about. Only reason to have an issue with it is cause you intentionally passed on totems in favor of gens and then paid for it.
0 -
@prayer_survivor I’m a survivor main and I say all three of those are easily countered.
0 -
As long as MOM Exists M1/R2 killers should be running NOED, since most killers get completely screwed by arguably the worst, poorly designed perk in the game. I main Hag btw so NOED will stay on my build until I see that perk burn in the pit of hell it spawned from.
Post edited by Hag.is.Dtier on0 -
Thank You, more detailed version
0
