Look, I love BHVR:
But I am a wee bit worried about the Freddy and Legion reworks that they are gonna give us. I have faith in them, but not a lot to trust the reworks to actually be in the mains of those two best interest.
What I mean is, I am afraid that when the reworks come, Freddy might be something completely unfit to play as (some argue here that Freddy is actually good and does not need a rework, I agree, however I also say that it should be simple to revert the nerfs. Truly it's all Freddy needs).
And then there is Legion. Say what you will, but in terms of power these groups of Delinquents are very unique in that they can vault pallets and can be a effective chain hitter. While I agree that they need a change, I (once again) fear that the change will make them unbearable to play as. I would hope they keep the Legion's ability to vault, while also making them fun for both Killers to use AND survivors to versus (unfortunately you can't please everyone).
That is all that I want to say on this topic as of now. Your thoughts? And please, no "Legion is bad" or whatever on those lines. I've seen it so many bloody times I grow tired of it.
My praise for Freddy is on page 2 :D
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These reworks scare me also but I have faith that the devs are putting some work in the reworks.... I hope. All we can really do is wait and see which is scary but let's hope for a good outcome for both of these killers.
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what you wish for is impossible. if the legion continues to vault things he's not going to be fun for both sides. there's nothing enjoyable about your means to avoid the killer in a chase being rendered useless. if legion were to be reworked to be fun for both sides (most likely wont happen) they'd have to start from scratch. seriously. no component of legion is fun to go against
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"BUT SEVEN SECONDS FEDORA MAN BAD!" Freddy is the most underrated killer in the game which is funny because his power counters gen rush the best. Look up hows it hanging or mrbecrazy if you want to see how Freddy is supposed to be played.
"You can't hurt me, you're in my world now."
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@artist Subjective my friend. Subjective.
You do not see the fun in Legion, but as sure as not every group is a sweaty toxic SWF, not everyone sees Legion as unfun. I find Legion fun to go against, I know a few people who find Legion fun to go against.
I don't count the opinions of folk like n00b3 or other streamers. Nor the people who follow too deep in their ideals. I am NOT saying you are. However I want you to know where I stand.
Again, say what you will, but a killer who could vault is a unique thing that no other killer will ever do (not in the immediate future, anyways). To remove that from Legion would just kill them. What is fun for you is not fun for me kind of deal here. I hope you can understand.
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@Cursed_hatchet I don't have a problem with Freddy. That being said, he is not the killer for me. But he certainly isn't weak as many might claim, @PhantomMask20763 can tell you all about that :3
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I'm a Hag/Huntress main myself, my comment was directed at those who are still under the assumption that he's the worst killer in the game. Sorry if I worded it wrong. :)
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Legion is currently broken and in need of some changes/fixes. It's not exactly fair being able to down a survivor while mending all because you can stare at the ground, breaking the chase while still following them. Frank's Mixtape is also unfair and in need of a change as three hits to down is too easy with the speed of Feral Frenzy and the free hits it gives. Also, by stacking the mending add-ons you force the survivors to mend for literal minutes. Probably a bug, but a game-breaking one at that.
Playing Legion the intended way is too weak, but playing Legion with the above is pretty broken so it's hard to see how their rework will actually resolve all of the above.
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I mean I find legion a fun killer simply because it's fun to vault stuff. and tbh I feel like no dis to these streamers but some streamers religiously always complain about legion and I feel that influences a ton of people to hate legion I understand he needs changes.
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Can confirm, freddy is not the worst :)
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I don't think they will remove the vaulting from Legion ( at least I hope not). I personally think they just need to work on the mending. That is what makes it annoying to face Legion.
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You'll be pretty disappointed in 2 years or so, whenever these reworks actually come, haha.
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The LoL Clan discourage the use of exploits and bugs. Unfortunately we have very little to no influence in or out the forums. FMT is powerful, but sometimes it is very needed. The mending add ons... Well, I don't even know how that could have happened. Honestly.
If I had it my way (not my own overhaul idea), I would give Legion a longer FF duration and slightly faster speed. So that the intended play would be a much better option.
People will be people, and we cannot stop them from exploiting, but we can at least try to get others to not do the same.
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Cuz it takes 100 seconds to wake up lol.
Freddy is garbage. Maybe he looks strong against solos without self-care. Other than that, weakest killer.
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a counter to legion is to mindgame . He’s a very anti looping killer. I would want his add ons to be changed because they can extremely exploited
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@nunadventures Every killer's add on can be 'exploited' in some way if one wants to cherry pick. The only exploited add on (combo) I consider a exploit are stacking the two mend add ons. Otherwise, literally no other add on in the Legion's kit (besides FMT) can be exploited in a game breaking way.
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Legion's vaulting power won't change, BHVR said that is what makes them them, I just want a buff to Freddy or make them stop what they are doing like The Doctor does in shock mode, a few small buffs, I can't complain too much about both, just slice of life changes.
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yes it is subjective. with that being said he'll never be fun for both sides BECAUSE it's subjective, same with every other killer, just not to this much of an extent
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was. even then he wasnt nearly as bad because he didnt ignore game mechanics
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@artist True. But even so, Legion isn't as bad as people make it out to be. There are ways to adapt to them. You can usually win against a fair playing Legion, but you will never win against a Decent Nurse.
People don't rage this hard against her, but I guess I understand why.
And this is why I love these discussions, even if we cannot change each others opinions, this gives us a chance speak our minds.
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yeah same bud
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Wouldst even shed a tear if legion was deleted, would actually be thrilled because that would mean we'd get a chance of getting a better designed killer (Aesthetically and viability in game)
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@ItsYourBoyGuzma Legion is here to stay.
And at least you aren't actively asking for deletion.
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Legion and Freddy, I fear what the rework could do, like how you said, lets hope that IF it happens, we will be getting a fairly powerful killer, balanced like our current legion
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The fact that a large amount of streamers(who play a lot of the game) do not see playing against a legion fun/fair doesn't happen just because. There are several reasons why one would dislike legion.
Main issues being:
- Frenzy removes any punishment for missing attacks for no real reason which removes reward from outplaying him. (e.g. hillbilly needs an addon to do this for his chainsaw yet the effect is still lesser)
- The power removes standard gameplay(looping/mindgames/360) without adding anything in its place besides another "press a button for a certain time"-mechanic which are frowned upon in the community already.
- And obviously the addons that literally break the game and/or are way too strong(similar to nurse having 5 blinks that remove any outplay potential and skill from the game).
In goldeneye speedrunning a mechanic called "lookdown" nearly killed the community by being too unfun due to it being too far from what people liked about the gameplay. If a mechanic goes too far from normal gameplay of the game(the reason why people enjoy and play the game) it's a poor idea. For this very same reason a large portion of the community hates playing against nurse. Nurse though, has some interesting counterplay in mindgames and stealth.
Simply said legion is a poorly thought out killer that ruins the thing that is for many/majority the reason the play the game, the chases. And to add something in its place has a button press and hold mechanic. He's just lazy and poor desing in basically every aspect of the power. There is an atrocious lack of thinking what can one do to counter him by the devs.
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You can still 360 them. It's just not as easy.
You say no downside to missed swings, except that the frenzy swings WILL NOT DOWN someone unless you hit multiple times. Not just 2. So missing swings isnt as big of an issue because the swings themselves are lackluster.
Addons that break the game are a bug. It is not intended to work that way.
Now that your 3 bullets are done, let me say I completely disagree about them ruining the chase. What you mean is they give an actual chase which cant be mindlessly looped like EVERY other killer save for nurse. They make the chase fun and threatening. Not just "oh, oh, you almost got me! Gotta be quicker than that!"
Or maybe its just me that enjoys something challenging/not cookie cutter.
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BHVR is a clueless company, since the leaks about Ash they have been keeping themselves shut in and not communicating with us at all, only coming in at times to tell us that they have sent this in to the team or something along the lines of that.
Now i ain't bashing the company, but all i am saying is that they need to work on their communication, we want status updates, something that will ease us into knowing that they can be trusted.
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@Detective_Jonathan Resources allocated to dedicated servers (no easy task). Resources allocated to the Switch port to release this Fall. Resources already committed to three more chapters for 2019.
I'm wondering if they didn't spread themselves a bit too thin this year. Right now, I am waiting to see the upcoming mid-chapter PTB patch notes. If that patch doesn't blow me away with much needed fixes, then I might be out.
And I can't say whether or not I would come back later and give Behavior a third try.
I'll always love the concept of this game, but as it stands, I have played beta games in better states.
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Those 3 things were stuff we already knew were coming though, in terms of the current bugs and things in the game, they've been pretty silent about it. Either that, or i'm just tooting my own horn.
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It's very hard to say what a viable fix would be that would satisfy the greatest amount of people. Some really like Legion and don't want significant changes, while others find them irritating (and often with good reason). Part of the problem is that certain Perks go so well with the base ability that make it incredibly powerful. I'm talking of a combo like Sloppy Butcher, Distressing, Coulrophobia, and Thanatophobia. This just makes the irritant of Mending/healing back up into a nightmare.
Perhaps the most convenient change would be to reduce the time to Mend Legion's attacks, making it less aggravating on survivors, but this in turn negates Legion's ability to counter gens which I feel is part of the point. Their kit makes them stall survivors and see others nearby, to spread the reduction around and thus the game as a whole. Reducing that presence would harm Legion's power, so people would be upset with this as well. It really isn't easy to change such a thing, when you think about it. What would you all change to make Legion more fair and fun to use? I realize everyone's definition of fun may differ, but something that would give both sides of the game a good time, win or lose. (Still not easy, right?)
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@Detective_Jonathan Right, we knew they were coming. My point wasn't that we knew, but with the resources allocated to them, especially the dedicated servers and Switch port, which would not be a small amount, I'm wondering if they didn't overextend and that's why they're quiet. There ended-up being less resources than originally anticipated for the fixes.
As I said, the upcoming mid-chapter PTB patch notes will tell the tale, one way or the other. Either fixes we need for many things still won't be ready, or they will shock us all.
I'm currently in a wait and see holding pattern, but that mid-chapter patch will determine if I stay and continue to invest time and money in the game, or take my business elsewhere because I would absolutely no longer have faith in the studio to get this game out of its backward beta state.
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@Kilmeran Yea i hear you on that, only reason i am still staying is simply because i want to see how they plan on ending the story. That's the only thing that really got me into the game in the first place.
Honestly if they didn't add Detective Tapp from Saw at any point in time, i probably would have stopped playing myself.
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@Detective_Jonathan Now, I'm being fair about it, too. When I talk about the mid-chapter patch being a determining factor in me staying or going, it isn't an all-or-nothing stance. I don't expect them to fix every issue wrong with the game. But it has to do enough to show that they are seriously making some stride toward it.
Fixing a game is a never-ending process, because bugs will always appear. Make no mistake, that mid-chapter patch will bring some new bugs with it as well. It's just the nature of the beast.
But if they haven't tackled some of the serious issues this time around, or at least tried to, then I don't know what faith there is to have left.
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My fears have been somewhat founded, yet also eased away at the same time. I already know your thoughts though. But I guess I can kinda say: "I told you so".
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I love this game and tbh I don’t care too much what they do. If they wanna change legion then oh well they’ll change him.
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I am pleased to announce (with the exception of The Legion) the Devs had actually proved me wrong. I meant to write this on the day of the Anniversary, but things kept me from doing that.
Thank you Devs, a lot of my faith had been returned once I had seen what you planned with Sweater Boi. What you did was awesome :D
Thank you so much for this, now I think I can play Freddy much better then I could before. Because I am not a big brain Freddy main.
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I love this game and have a lot of love to those that work on the game, pretty sure quite a few have a passion for the game (esp the Lore guy) however, I am deftly (no, not deathly) afraid of them reworking anything anymore
I hope to be proven wrong, but def more pessimistic side of how they rework things
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@Nikkiwhat Legion is a whole nother can of worms I'd rather not think about atm.
But I actually have to congratulate the Devs for Freddy. He is now much more closer to the powerful Freddy we see in the movies.
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I know @Shad03 I jus loved em so much D:
I like the idea and concept, jus...want to see it in actual matches and how the changes fair against moderate to highly skilled Survivor groups
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@Nikkiwhat Agreed.
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If the generator teleport goes live, discordance will be must-have on Freddy. I can also see some use with Tinkerer.
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@FrenziedRoach Both would be over kill.
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