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Filthy Blade = Exploit or No
Answers
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@PhantomMask20763 Legion is absolutely fun. As for people complaining about him (exploit using aside), they're a dime-a-dozen. Pick a game, and people will complain that a character is OP. Brigitte, Mei, and Doomfist (post-buffs) in Overwatch; Lian and Dredge in Paladins; for a time it was Garrosh, Samuro, and Sylvanas in Heroes of the Storm; Vengeance Demon Hunter in WoW PvP; back in the day it was Ice Tanks in DCUO PvP; and the list goes on.
Gamers, when they play a PvP game long enough, get into a set-pattern of play style. And when characters come along that disrupt that, I've found that people tend to cry OP and nerf instead of adapting their play style. The problem is that a lot of gamers expect a one-size-fits-all play style, and that's not how PvP games work when you're dealing with characters and kits.
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Yeah I'd say it's an exploit.
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"An exploit is cheating through the use of bugs or game design in an attempt to gain an advantage to win or turn the match in your favor."
So by that logic, why don't we just leave the moonwalking "exploit" as is until it's apparently been long enough to be part of the game? Just like pallet looping.
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It's an exploit just like Sloppy Butcher bug that would crash the game. At this point it's well known and anyone that runs double knife add-ons and says they didn't know is a liar.
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How can you distinguish between an exploiter and a normal addon-user?
Yes you cant.
Exploiting means that you bug yourself onto a stone and stay there e.g.
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Pallet Looping is a legit strategy that has a counter-play, Moonwalking is abusing the chase mechanic because their is nothing the survivor can do about it.
To leave it in would seriously hurt BHVR and it's playerbase, you have perks to help you deal with pallets and a mechanic to help you in chases called "Bloodlust" since you seem to forget what that does.
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@Detective_Jonathan Pallet looping has been introduced as a side effect, it only turned into a feature nowdays, but it certainly hasnt been from the beginning (as you can check in the early devstreams)
You can counter moonwalking by losing the killer.
I always smile when survivors claimed that the chase recognition system works perfectly when killers complained about losing bloodlust..... now its a different story eh?
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Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people play the game on a daily basis, with more joining (buying the game) every day. At best, maybe a few thousand visit the forum or reddit or whatever. So no, not everyone who runs both and says they didn't know is a liar.
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Moonwalking also has counterplay, according to some forumgoers. It's just hard to pull off.
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Except all the people that play and ya know, dont get on forums or reddit.
The ones who havent even HEARD it's a bug...
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News travels quickly in gaming communities even to the players that don't go to forums or Reddit. Double knife add-ons is not a common thing. Most Legion's run mixtapes or dirt. Maybe 1 knife. But both knives, unless the dude is a rank 20 he's doing it on purpose to exploit. So yes they are liars. Not to mention the first time you use it should be pretty obvious something is wrong when it takes a survivor minutes to mending.
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So you watch your victims mend fully?
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Pallet looping has no counter if done properly because the majority of loops are done with the killer in complete sight of the Survivor. Also the Red Stain can be seen through walls for reasons the devs only know.
Spirit Fury requires also Enduring to do anything and only works once.
Survivors have already gotten Bloodlust's numbers nerfed into pointlessness with their whining.
What about stealthy killers who use Nurse's Calling/Stridor to surprise and down healing Survivors? Is that an Exploit of the chase mechanics?
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@thesuicidefox That's complete BS.
My wife, several friends (we're in our 40s) and even my 25 year old son game regularly. And guess what? Not a single one of them ever hit a game's forums or reddit. Never. Not once. They only know about changes when the patch notes appear on a game's launcher on at the load in screen (like DbD does).
None of them hear any "gaming news" that so-called "travels fast in gaming communities." And do you know why? Because like a lot of players out there, they don't become members of any gaming community. They login, play a game, logout, go about life. They don't join clans or guilds or any of that. They play whatever game together, and that's the extent of the community: a closed circle of real life friends and family.
I'm the only one that hits forums, and outside of being here at DbD, I rarely do that anymore. I no longer hit forums or reddit for Overwatch or Paladins or any of the other games we play. Why? Because I got sick and tired of the self-serving juvenile mentality of the so-called "gaming community." The DbD "community" is wearing thin as well.
Forums and reddit are a minority of any player base. Most people just play solo, or with their own friends, and ignore a "community." That's been known for years, and has even been stated at E3 and other conventions by developers over the past 8 years or so.
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@Master So then how should the survivor lose the killer then? how should a survivor be able to outplay a killer during a chase?
@Orion What is the counter-play, because it sure isn't what you stated earlier, there is no way you can be stealthy the whole game and avoid Legion, he will see you one way or another and will stab you, and if he's smart enough, he would run Bloodhound and track your blood, there is nothing you can do about it.
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If you are looping a survivor and they are good at said practice, you only have yourself to blame, you have the option to either hit through the pallet and tank the stun, or keep respecting it, thus pro-longing the chase, as the killer, you're supposed to be smart. Not Stupid.
Either way, at the end of the day Legion is being changed, and pallet looping is staying in as it should be, because you have numerous counterplays to it, it's not that hard.
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Sorry but if you can't see that survivors do a whole lot of nothing for long periods of time and you are continuously catching them when they mend you are just being willfully ignorant.
People know. Doesn't matter if they visit forums/Reddit or not. They will come across or have a friend tell them about it at some point. My entire Xbox group doesn't go to the forums or Reddit either and they ALL know about the mend bug. Before me, the guy that goes to the forums, even told them.
NEWS TRAVELS QUICKLY. At this point the mend bug is just well known. It's an exploit. Defend it however you want but 95% chance it's someone purposely abusing an exploit.
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Seriously? It takes the second or third mend to even GET to exploited timers, and when the bar is gone they can continue to mend with no indication of deep wounds still being actice. You wouldnt know until the 2nd or 3rd, IF you were assuming they dont do gens injured. Which we all know survivors will do gens injured, ESPECIALLY against legion.
You just KNOW that everyone injured is still mending and not off doing gens?
Gtfo with that arguement. Unless you sit and WATCH them mend, you cant know they're ONLY MENDING for 5 mins.
Word can travel fast in communities. Where MOST casual players dont go. Just because your group may be the exception, does not prove the rule.
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So what about all the other stratgies that don't involve blindly following a Survivor through the 20+ pallets on the map? Are those also an Exploit of the chase mechanics?
A low TR killer uses M&A/NC(or silent Wraith, or a Killer with Tinkerer/Dark Devotion) to find a Survivor healing and downs them with a Surprise attack. Exploit?
Seems to me like it's only an "exploit" for Legion because it's works a little better for them than some other killers.
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Myers building up EW until one tap away, then insta downing someone. Exploit?
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Dude all it takes is 1 time for you to see the bar end, and find the guy still mending 20 seconds later. This is besides the fact that people have mouths and will say stuff to their friends. I doubt anyone who plays this game doesn't also have friends that play this game. Someone would have told them at this point.
You are defending cheaters, period. It's an exploit and people should report it. What BHVR decides to do is up to them.
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@thesuicidefox You doubt that someone that plays this game doesn't have friends who play this game?
I have zero friends who play this game. Not a one. They've zero interest in the new-player grind in DbD, and even less interest in a hide-and-seek asymmetrical game. Not one friend or family member even owns a copy of DbD. They're happy in their MMOs and team-shooters.
If I wasn't stupid enough to come to the forums, I wouldn't know jack about DbD news.
Even my Steam friends list is only real life friends and family.
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Yet you still know about the mend bug...
Also I'm talking about the friends you make playing the game, not the people you already know. None of my IRL friends and family play DBD, or any video game, but I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the 100+ people I know from just playing the game a lot, of which a good chunk are on my friend's list.
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Myers Building up his Stalk is a legit strategy as it is something i would see him doing if the trials were real, what you're doing is calling every little thing an exploit because you have nothing to back up how it isn't an exploit of the chase mechanic.
Like come on now, it's common sense how someone can see it is an exploit, everything that you listed has a counter play to it. Moonwalking Legion does not. Period.
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Its not an exploit. Neither is Moonwalking
Its impossible to determine intent on both.
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Intent is irrelevant.
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@Bbbrian2013 Anything to back both of those claims up?
You can't sit there and say it isn't an exploit and say how it isn't possible to determine the intent about it. The match i was in, this person clearly knew about the bug, because she saw me still mending and still managed to come over and down me, you can easily tell what the intent is.
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@thesuicidefox I know about it because I come to the forums. I'm in the minority.
Now, do you think I know about bugs or exploits in WoW or Overwatch or Paladins? I don't. Because I no longer go to those forums or reddits, and when I play those games I am only playing with real life friends and family who don't go to those sites either. We don't friend people in those games, we've no interest in it, and play only in our chill, closed circle.
I couldn't even tell you what is on PTB in those games, because until the patch notes go on the launcher on release day, we don't follow the game's news. We just login and play, then logout and go about real life.
Once I quit these forums, guess what? It will be the same situation for me and DbD. I won't know what's broken or what's coming until the patches go live and leap onto my screen at login.
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Yet you skipped where they said "if I wasnt stupid enough to come to the forums, I wouldn't know Jack ######### about dbd news."
Which answered your remark before you even responded.
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So everyone who reports a bug they found and unwittingly used to their advantage should be banned?
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No one is saying they should be banned, we are trying to debate on whether or not it is considered an exploit, which it is, because the add-ons are bugged, and thus abusing that bug is considered exploiting.
Abusing any mechanic in the game to gain any type of advantage is considered an exploit, nothing else.
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The Add-Ons say they increase the mend time. Thats it.
Someone first using Legion could believe the bug is intended and just think they're strong and minute mends are legit.
You can't determine who is "exploiting" and who just thinks they found a good add-on combo due to this.
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So one tapping Myers was an intended feature? I doubt it. It was a strategy devised by killers after they learned how his power works. Where is the counter play that makes it alright? Don't let Myers ever look at you? Don't let him sneak up on you? M&A and Dead Rabbit exist.
I am using common sense. What I described is the perks being used for their intended purpose. What is the purpose of Bloodhound if not to track injured Survivors?
Again, your only basis of exploit appears to be "Not Fair!".
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The devs are the ones who have to consider whether something is an exploit or not.
If you don't think exploiters should be banned, then what's the point of reporting them?
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I feel like you dont get that stacking blades cumulatively increases mend timer. As in minute, 3 minutes, 5 minutes. It's absolutely not intended.
If it didnt get WORSE every application I would agree.
But its hard to know if that's even happening unless you just follow and watch your victim mend repeatedly, or already know of its exploit.
I do however agree it hard to tell who knows and who is legit just using blades for mend times, so the bug needs to be fixed before bans for it happen. At least in this instance.
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Right because you don't know a single other person that plays this game that couldn't have told you.
Dude someone would have told you about the bug.
Sorry I just don't buy it that people don't know about this bug. DBD community is small, people run into the same players a lot. YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD BY SOMEONE ABOUT IT AT THIS POINT. Whether it's from a friend in the game or someone you just played you would have been told about it.
But if you want to live in fairy tale world where people don't open their mouths and tell other people about stuff then be my guest.
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It's good that you play that way. I stopped letting people I meet in a game onto my friends list many years ago. I play many games at once. Right now it's Overwatch, Paladins, WoW, DbD, and Realm Royale. I can go weeks or months without launching any particular game as one or more on that list command my attention and interest.
So, I don't deal with in-game friends anymore. I've no need to. Hell, the only three games I even own on Steam are Borderlands 2, Dead by Daylight, and Realm Royale. That's the extent of my Steam library.
I would say my largest library is the Bnet launcher, where I have WoW, Overwatch, Heroes of the Storm, Hearthstone, Starcraft 2, and Diablo 3 installed. And I don't need in-game friends there, because pretty much all of my friends and family are also long-time Blizzard players. We already have our groups and teams pre-made.
So, no, we don't do the random in-game friends thing. Haven't in several years.
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@thesuicidefox Exploiting IS all about intent.
That's like saying if there was a bug where 50% of the time a killer spawns into a match all of the Survivors instantly die the killer is exploiting.
That's not exploiting the killer didn't know that would happen.
Legion players could just think those add-ons are really good because they don't have to try to cheat to activate the bug you just join a match with an add-on.
But if they go in knowing then it is an exploit.
But this can't be proven. So no exploit
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You're the only one in fairy tale world. You seem to know EXACTLY the numbers of who knows, how the info spreads, and what EVERY player does to be able to make that claim.
It is entirely possible (and probably the case) that many people STILL dont know.
Hell I've had killers JUGGLE ME with new DS. Word isnt reaching those who cant see the posts.
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Now hold up, i didn't say they should be banned, i said that no one is saying they should be banned, banning them never came out of anyones mouth. Pay attention, we are talking about whether it is an exploit or not, we are not talking about "Whether it is an exploit or not, and should it be bannable?"
And as far as the devs are concerned, they did say that it is a cheese of the chase mechanic, so in a way, they did say that it is an exploit (Moonwalking that is) @Orion
@Tzeentchling9 Well, of course it isn't fair, except in the way you put it is as if i am crying about it or something. But the point is,you can't do anything about it, as there is nothing if a legion is moonwalking you, Myers can be avoided until his power runs out, there's nothing you can do against a moonwalking Legion.
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I'm questioning why someone would report someone else in the first place if they don't think they should be banned. I was also not talking to you when I mentioned reports and bans.
Cheesing is not the same as exploiting.
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If you weren't talking to me, then you should probably no quote me then, just saying. @Orion
And to gain an advantage? yes. Yes it is.
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I didn't quote you, I quoted someone else. You jumped in to argue for him, so I figured you agreed with him.
No, it's not. An exploit is anything that the developer team (implicitly or explicitly) considers an exploit. We, as in players, have no power in deciding what is or isn't an exploit, because only the developers know what is an acceptable strategy and what is an exploit.
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Of course you did, so when you said you weren't talking to me, you probably should have just ignored it and continued talking to the other dude you were talking with.
Anyways, I understand that the devs are the ones that have the say, but considering that they are weak in the communications department, things like that would take time to speak up about. Either way, it's still considered a cheese to get the match going in your favor.
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Let me rephrase so it's absolutely clear: I wasn't originally talking to you, but then you jumped in to defend the person I was actually talking to. I therefore assumed you were of the same mind.
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How is waiting out Myer's power helpful in any way when he walks up, taps M2 to go into EW3 and immediately downs you?
And again, what is wrong with Bloodhound being used for it's intended purpose? Is it not meant to track injured Survivors? Hell, actually walking back isn't even necessary. I play my Legion with Stridor so I can find Survivors mending after their bar reaches 33% or less. Am I exploiting by using a tracking perk to.....TRACK?
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You said pallet looping was fine because there are perks to help against it. Good thing Survivors have No Mither then, right? Straight hard counter to Bloodhound moonwalking.
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whats this chase mechanic thing lmfao ???
a huntress can down you from 50 meters away... without chasing you,. is that chase mechanic abuse ?? does she have to actually chase you then down you ??
whats this chase mechanic...
also a trapper who hits someone and that survivor had BT , he can just moonwalk as well .. is that also a chase mechanic exploit ?? so not only legion but any killer abuses this so called chase mechanic
its nothing bannable… its just garbage idea how they did the BT timer now.. before was better
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Chase mechanicnisnt being referred to as some imaginary rule.
They mean the mechanic that exists that counts you as "in a chase" for the sake of chase emblems, points, and in this case, legions power. Which isnt intended to tick down "while in a chase".
However I do agree that this has been possible for the new borrowed time (which was only made that way since legions debuff became a thing) and pigs trap. But nobody ever moonwalked with traps because that's wasting their use. So arguing that it's been possible before is almost a moot point.
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Might if I ask you all how the filthy blade exploit works?
A friend on PSN told me about it, a friend of that friend did as well. Even sent a screenshot.
But how does the exploit... work? I can't find any articles, topics or complaints on it... except for this topic.
Like, do you have to get hit by Frenzy hits 3-4 times TOTAL? And it resets once you mend...? Or do you just have to get Deep Wounded by Frenzy, and additional Frenzy hits while you still have a timer don't count?
Or does the 3-4 hits apply for the rest of the trial...?
Doesn't it stop stacking up at a certain point, too?
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