[Unpopular Opinion] Revert the Legion changes
Don't get me wrong, I understand that the Legion was a fundamentally flawed concept. There was no counterplay for chaining FF stabs, and he wasn't a very effective killer due to his slow movement speed and his lack of ability to secure the hook. However, this rework has effectively turned him into a template of a killer, with barely any identity left besides his rockin' theme song. He now has standard movement speed, standard terror radius, and his ability has been averaged out so extremely that he is, bar none, THE LEAST INTERESTING KILLER IN THE GAME. I don't even know where to begin, so let's start with his ability, Feral Frenzy.
First off, the entire ability has been stripped of anything that made it fun to begin with. You move slower, vault slower, it recharges slower, you get blinded more after using it, and you need a full bar to use it. This not only guts its utility for travelling the map at speed to apply pressure, it also makes it just plain BORING to use. It no longer feels exhilarating or fun in the slightest. Add to that heavy penalties like losing it if you miss a swing, which can happen for reasons like my knife locking on to a tree for some reason, you lose your power and the chase. Losing 50% of your gauge for attacking outside FF is just the cherry on the blah sundae. Not only that, but the other half of his identity wasn't just smacked with the nerf bat, it was beaten into the ground. Let's talk about Deep Wounds.
Now, the timer cannot be lowered by attacks, and also won't tick down while in the Terror radius. What this means is that Feral Frenzy now has even less reason to be used, and Deep Wounds apply very little pressure to survivors. Killers can no longer see the Deep Wound timer, a minor change but one that is damaging nonetheless, since the Legion now has no idea whether or not the wound has ticked down at all, and thus doesn't know how well he is pressuring the survivors and can't react accordingly. Not only that, but survivors can evade a Legion almost indefinitely thanks to the increased TR, which means that by the time the Wound timer begins to tick, the Legion is already too far away to capitalize.
These two changes make Deep Wounds effectively intangible, providing no feedback or visible benefit to the killer; the killer can't see how their ability is impacting the game. Bear Traps are similar, however they are a much greater threat than Deep Wound will ever be. My major complaint with the Legion now is that there is nothing left to enjoy when playing him. His now-mediocre abilities provide little room for intelligent play that other killers don't already provide in a more interactive form, and he is overall, just so BORING. A strategy I liked to employ as the pre nerf Legion was "catch and release", similar to execution to the moonwalk, but not as cancerous. What I mean is that after applying mass DW to a group of survivors, I would chase them off, and use Stridor + Sloppy + Bloodhound to track down a survivor who had decided to stop moving to mend, and down them. It felt good because I built my Legion around it, and survivors had a chance to get away if they saw / heard me coming. Using a killer's power in an intelligent way is an important part of playing as a killer. Nurses have to time their blinks correctly, Trappers and Hags have to place their traps in devious locations, Cannibal...well never mind him but still. The satisfaction in playing as a killer comes with using that Killer's ability to the best of yours. With the new Legion, there is none of this. He is effectively a hollow man, of no substance and lacking in any distinguishing features.
Obviously, this is from a Killer perspective, as those who played as Legion were most negatively impacted by these changes. Note that as a survivor, I didn't have any major issues with the Legion. Frank's Mix Tape is always a pain, but it's a very rare addon. Meaning that they're rare enough that a killer must spend a large amount of bp to have access to it every game, and I can think of other very rare addons that are equally pertinent to a killer's success. However, Frank's Mix Tape and Stab Wounds Study have the most noticeable feedback for the survivors, so I can understand why they stick out. Furthermore, while it is true that Legion excels at tunneling with no counterplay (besides stealth, which most of my perks were built around, hence why I didn't hate him as much as others), and I regret that this playstyle is available for use, this rework was not the way to go. The old Legion did have several cool aspects to him, such as the raw speed of Feral Frenzy and the pressure applied to groups of survivors (exemplified by his perk Discordance). My ideal version of the Legion would be to roll back the 2.7.0 changes, because a flawed killer concept is better than a blank concept killer. Because he is flawed, there are few changes that can be made that do not gut him as an idea. In a perfect world, Moonwalking would be removed and tunneling with Feral Frenzy would be nerfed, however I am ambivalent towards ff tunneling. He already takes longer than usual to finish a chase, and while some consider ff tunneling to be unfun, I myself honestly considered it part of the game, same as when a EW1 Michael Myers sneaks up on me early in the round because I happened to be looking the other way, or a Plague instantly downs me after going into the broken status because there wasn't a pallet nearby. It's a game, things happen, and in the end someone always has to hold the short end of the stick.
Comments
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I played as legion a few times only right before his changes and did fine playing as him without being a farming tunneling wanker.
I play as legion a lot now after his fixes and I think he is very fun to use and go against. I will never be able to relate to people not liking his changes because I didn't play as old legion for more than a solid 3 or so hours. But from playing as him now and seeing more bad legions left and right, I am GLAD that he is now a killer who needs skill to use with or without add ons.
One thing I noticed hurts him more now than it did before is if I slug someone with DS or who I suspect to have MoM just to slow them down a bit. I can't do that if there's like 2 players remaining like I could before because I can't travel as efficiently. But that's a good thing for survivors. No more wanker legion.
Also, stridor + Bloodhound + Sloppy is such a cringey combination that should not work on any killers at all besides spirit. I've seen wraiths try it, and I've seen tons of old legions get away with it because he was a brain dead monkey skill required killer before. "Catch and Release" was how every bad old legion played and it made him unfun to go against because survivors could not avoid it at any costs. If survivors were lucky enough to survive a legion game it was because the legion was one of those sad players who could be 360'd endlessly and never looked behind them. Legion is far from broken, he just needs to be played properly now. Throw on monitor and abuse. Some people like to pair that with nurses and thanataphobia and ruin. I would replace thanataphobia with discordance in case people try to bait me with nurses or I want to apply pressure. I think smart survivors always expect legions to have nurses because there's so many of em with it. bbq may work too, etc.
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what a lot of people dont seem to understand is, that the legion nerfs actually only got rid of the most unfun aspects of him.
now that these are out of the way, they can start buffing legion to a point where he is actually a viable killer without having them to be the most cheese killer in the game.
i am strictly against reverting those changes, even though im usualy all for killer buffs, this annoyance of a killer needed to die. maybe they can give them a rebirth and they are fun to play as / against next time.
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Legion is not dead.
As @Mister_xD say, they got rid of the unfun aspect, now I think they should create new mechanics to he's power that have COUNTERPLAY and be fun
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These are all good points, but assume that the devs will make any changes to give him identity moving forward, which I can say with confidence that they will not. They are more interested in making killers balanced than fun, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is now true that Legion has very little unique about him now. Not only that, but with all of his abilities being averaged out to the extreme, it now feels like he excels at nothing, hence why I referred to him as a "blank template killer".
Also @Kurisataru, what do you have against the Stridor + Sloppy + Bloodhound? It seems to me that if a killer lends itself to wounding survivors, advantage should be taken of that. Legion was able to follow blood trails at a longer range thanks to his feral frenzy speed, and the combination of Deep Wound + Feral Frenzy kept survivors in an injured state to take full advantage. Same way that Hillbilly and Nurse lend themselves to using Barbecue and Chili due to their rapid map traversal, or Michael Myers to Monitor and Abuse due to his decreased terror radius and need to stalk. Neither of these can be countered any more reliably then tracking blood.
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Why do you bully my main boi Frank so much, Behaviour? :,(
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I will tentatively agree with the folks that say not to revert the changes. But that would only be tentative because of the fact Legion is, as you say, a blank slate now. Granted, I know Legion was not good for the game, but they brought them down hard. I don't find it fun to chase like I would if I was the Trapper (whom I devoted a lot of my killer time and bloodpoints to). Why play as the Legion when I could be the Trapper?
DW was the biggest offender that existed and I can see why it needed to be changed. But FF deserved more then what we got. The add ons don't even make any sense. Hitting a survivor twice completely depletes your gauge, and stuns you. The pin add ons are a dumb gimmick, so is the Fuming Mixtape.
Unfortunately they are not going to change anything, and if they do, I might regain hope in BHVR again, but I shall not hold my breath.
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The only two things about legion that I think are bad is vault speed and the deep wounds. I've played legion since he came out. A lot of the minor changes were good quality of life and enjoyable.
However with deep wounds the way it is makes legion kind of boring. Deep wounds is in a state of risk and reward. However the reward is far less than the risk. In red rank play.
-Survivors almost never stay too close together.
-Legion can multi stab, but survivors can abuse bleed timer TR change to perform co-op activities such as flashlight saves, sabotage, hot potato gen, and pallet saves.
-Deep wounds is only relevant to waste time if you ping pong map and make thanatophobia take more time to cleanse through healing.
Feral Frenzy
-Slow vaulting speeds make it even more of a hassle to apply a weak debuff that does not help you in chase.
-has no use after everyone is injured. Unless you are using fuming mixtape.
-Becomes M1 killer with no benefit from power after first Deep Wounds. Power use after application hurts legion more than helps. -because 4 sec stun and slow vaults (combination too taxing)-
-Almost all addons are useless and doesn't offer diverse game play.
-Buttons require two hits and requirements are for you to let the survivor escape. Would be better if they applied status with Deep Wounds and until fully healed they don't go away. With current set up you cannot stack it on more than two survivors in normal game play.
-With these issues FF is not fun to use.
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Current Legion is just trash. Old Legion was 'only' horribly inefficient against smart survivors. Now he literally can't do anything against smart players.
History had run full circle, once again low tier killer got nerfed because of bad survivors backlash.
This is the reason i will never again buy any dlc.
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They need to keep the ######### changes they made so they can build off of them and fix him, it's much better PR wise to fix something broken rather than tone down something broken.
Anyway, Legion was gutted into a asthmatic psychopath who has more breathing problems than Clown. The first fix they need is to bring back the Vault Speed, and revert the awful nerfs to the cool-down add-ons. That would fix Legion's effectiveness in chases tremendously, he'd still be an M1 Killer and his DW would still be #########, and his FF would still cut out a second before reaching the 2nd Survivor but he'd still be more effective in a chase.
After that then they can eventually focus on his ######### DW, how about let us see blood, ######### was that taken out?
MY PERSONAL FIX--DW slightly decreases Survivor movement speed and the DW timer goes down when they work on Gens, totems, heal others, open the Exit etc. Basically if they choose to do anything like work on Gens while in Legion's TR their DW timer goes down so they're forced to Mend instead of making progress. That makes DW an actual threat and slows down Gen progression. In exchange for slower movement speed Legion's Vault Speed can remain that of a fat ass trying to hop a fence.
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"can remain that of a fat ass trying to hop a fence."
Hilariously both I and Jane can hop over a fence faster then Legion can. And I'm not exactly built for it.
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@Shad03 Legion's worse?! Goodness, I need analogy XD
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