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Overhaul for the Worst Perks [Killer and Survivor]
Comments
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When I change Up the Ante in my final revision on this post i'll keep that in mind.
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An interesting concept, i'll add it to the revision.
That suggestion might give me a idea on how to make Beast of Pray some what useful.
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And this would be a new meta. Way too strong
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I like the Monstrous Shrine buff ya got 'er
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@NuclearBurrito @UncannyLuck @Blueberry
New additions to the main post have been added, and one perk was revised on the main post to save time, a final Revised Post will be added as a comment SoonTM and after that this post is complete until a new meta is made.
A new Revised Version will be added in as a comment to not make the Main Post too long, it will be added whenever it is complete. Aka SoonTM.
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@fluffybunny I thought about it and decided to buff No Mither, it has been added to the list, Enjoy.
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Hindered and Broken would probably be way too strong in addition to not being fun to play against. On the other hand, it might make no mither into a meta perk.
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Its a double edged sword, its not really too strong in the sense that its a Hex perk.
Before the perk even becomes an issue you can break it, and pairing it with Ruin risks Ruin from being destroyed. Its like I put in the comment next to it "Its a high risk high reward Hex perk" meaning if you want to use it you can't use Ruin or you have to risk Ruin, and most people never play without Ruin so.
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It's definitely not a double edged sword though, and arguably is not a high risk high reward perk.
The only way this perk could be double edged is if survivors just don't bother cleansing or healing and just do generators, but with hindered they're still moving slower than no blink nurse.
As for high risk high reward, it's not really that either. Unlike Devour, where you legitimately risk it going out before it does anything, you get something out of it by hitting even 1 survivor. Just because you can get nothing out of a perk in a match doesn't automatically make it high risk high reward. Take Spirit Fury for example - you can go an entire match without getting it to proc, which is no different than losing a hex perk before getting to use it. Does that make it high risk high reward? If a survivor never hits you with a pallet, you don't proc enduring. Does that make enduring high risk high reward?
In any case, what was the idea behind the change to third seal? What did you want to accomplish or what play styles did you want to enable? Like, did you want to slow the game down?
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The idea behind Hex: The Third seal was to remove the useless status effect it came with. This perk was only good with one killer "The Pig" to hide Jigsaw boxes from survivors, and as of how the game currently is, that was removed.
The Blindness Status Effect brings nothing to the table, and the perk was way too situational to even be deemed viable, so it was changed to Broken, and Hindered to give killers a sense that their perk slot wasn't wasted on something useless.
By doing this it gives Survivors the sense that this is a serious problem and should be addressed before more of us suffer from it, no survivor wants the Broken status effect on them and removing the Hex from game would disable this effect, by then either the damage has been done or it was broken early on. Hence why I said "High risk High Reward" these Hex Totems exist to give the killer a sense that if they use a perk slot for one they'll be given something that benefits them only when it is active.
I think its a good addition, its not too OP and can be easily countered. Its a better choice over Blindness which lets face it only hides survivors that're being picked up, and most Survivors hide in lockers which already gives them Blindness.
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REVISED VERSION
The perks on this list are to be changed as the idea for them were too niche, not every perk from the main will be added to this Revised Version and only the ones that stuck out the most will be put here to be changed. This is my final update to the list, any further ideas suggested will be made off the books and put into consideration for the next Overhaul in the future meta(s).
REVISED SURVIVOR PERKS
The following perks were taken from the Main Post and put into a Revised section on this list, they were changed to better fit their use/other perks had the same use suggested above.
- Up The Ante (For each Survivor still alive grants a 2/3/4% Luck for any remaining Survivors. This at the cost of 2/3/4% additional Luck of your own. Does not stack with itself.) [Changed from the Main Post to be true to what it was originally, a small buff to the perk with the draw back of "gambling" your own luck. I think its a nice fit, and would be useful for a kobe build team.]
- Slippery Meat (Grants up to 3 extra escape attempts on the hook and the odds of freeing yourself from Bear Traps is increased by 15/20/25% in addition to this your wiggle meter is decreased by 0/5/10%) [Reverted it back to its original escape attempts since it would make Kobeing builds more powerful, I also reduced the Bear Trap escape attempt percentage to not make Trapper harder to use, the new added part to this build fits with the perks namesake and overall theme.
- This Is Not Happening (Great Skill check success zones when repairing, healing, and sabotaging get 30/40/50% bigger when you're injured.) [A even smaller increase to the already existing effects of this perk to not make Great Skill check success zones incredible easy, it would be useful for No Mither builds though.]
Nothing massive, these changes should be more reasonable and useful for such niche perks.
REVISED KILLER PERKS
The following perks were taken from the Main Post and put into a Revised section on this list, they were changed to better fit situational chases, killer powers, and more use for such niche perks.
- Coulraphobia (Survivors within your Terror Radius have a 30/40/50% penalty to Healing progression speed. Self-Healing is reduced an additional 3/6/9%) [Removed the Med-Kit item consumption penalty as this isn't Overwhelming Presence, the rest of the perks changes are the same from the main list.]
- Beast of Prey (The Red Stain disappears after being in a chase for 25/20/15 seconds and stays hidden until you lose the chase. Bloodlust Tier l is Slightly boosted when active. Gain 30/40/50% more Bloodpoints for actions in the Hunter Category.) [Removed the requirement for Best of Pray to activate when Bloodlust Tier l is active making it more useful in a chase. I liked the idea behind this as it benefits anyone who uses it in one of their slots as Killer and gives a slight bonus to Bloodlust Tier l if the chases goes on for too long.]
IMPORTANT NOTICE
This is the last update to any major perks on this list, there will be no more additions added to the list (Except for very minor changes like grammar or small buffs/nerfs) as stated before everything discussed here will now be taken off the books, and any new suggestions will be taken into account for another Overhaul Perk list in the future.
This took a lot of time to make, both considering what to revise, creating this entire post, and what to add to said list. I had a lot of fun making it and hope to do it again in the future.
@Peanits @not_Queen If you're interested in reading the Revised Version it is here for you, I also added some additions to the Main post for you both to see down at the bottom of said Main post, I enjoyed both your feedback from when this post was created and now. The Main post also has the previous changed versions of said Perks on this list if they're more to your liking.
Thank you everyone for your ideas and support,
See you in the fog.
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@TheGameZpro3 Check the updated list, you'll find your suggestion was reasonable enough to be put on there.
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I look at your revised perks and I still say meh. I want perks that make me excited to use and make me feel more powerful. These still feel like they are only slightly better than crap. No doubt this is the kinda stuff the devs love though and the route they would take since they are so cautious.
Someone made a much more appealing rework list for killers in the killer forum. Those perks sounded fun.
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The perks are not supposed to make you feel powerful, they're sub-par perks at best.
These changes are within the realm of reason, that's why they were changed. I'm sure you like the new Beast of Prey idea though no?
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Not that I completely dislike any of them but they don't give me any sense of "wow I can't wait to try that perk!" I'm not sure i'd use any of them in a final build but the little boost is good. These would be much better when you have nothing else. I don't really understand the idea that these perks are all meant to be subpar or bad? Like why even have them? To increase grind? People are still going to just hope for ruin or bbq or noed(from killer perspective)to show up and curse these perks. I know not every perk will be super sought after but I still feel there are ways to make them more fun and enticing almost on the level of current sought after perks. I tried to find the perk thread I was talking about but cant find it at the moment.
So overall your ideas are good but it just doesnt really do anything to excite me or make me want to run them.
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Every Meta has low tier things in it, these just so happen to be one of those low tier things.
The update I made to them is to just make them more viable in niche builds, nothing else can really be done to them without making them the next Ruin, NOED, or BBQ.
Its just to keep in mind for the perks that are currently never used or even thought of you know?
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Also you have to keep in mind that people like @not_Queen or @Peanits (I'll stop @'ing them i'm sure its annoying.) Are always looking for feedback to stuff like this as well.
They're listening, they just are not really interested in things that outshine or make things more OP over others.
Its nice to discuss it with them though to get some insight on some things that go around at BHVR.
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Streetwise is one of those perks that isn't that great in solo, but ends up being a problem in SWF because it allows SWF to use Toolboxs and Flashlights excessively. It also makes green keys with add-on that allows you to see the killer more obnoxious, by giving them Object of Obsession with no drawbacks.
Most of the perks on survival list "buffs" will not change their position. For example No Mither is a perk that gives you Iron will and Unlimited version of Unbreakable, however it takes away a health state from you which isn't worth it and this is just one example. Left behind was perk designed to allow you to complete a generator when the rule of requiring 3 generator to be complete for the hatch to spawn. This condition no longer exists and therefore ruined the purpose of the perk with new End game collapse.
You could fix some of these perks, for example I think left behind should give you aura reading of the hatch spawn if you are last person alive. The repair speed and Action speed are simply useless right now. No Mither would be pretty good perk if they removed broken state, sound reduction and Unlimited Unbreakable, however kept the ability where your survivor does not bleed, so it would be good counter to Bloodhound. Another solution for No Mither would be to give the survivor the ability to have deep wound timer for getting hit for duration of 10 seconds so you aren't one shot.
As for the killer side. Aura-oriented perks have one major problem and that is, they a build in Spine-Chill for the survivor. The other issue behind them is that most maps are too big compared to terror radius of the killer, so the killers aren't able to get a good benefit out of the perks)Includes Distressing). They'd be better if they release more smaller maps the game and Lery or if they were much bigger in radius so that killers could get more benefit.
As for the rest of killer perks, I'll comment what i'd like to see for following perks:
- Unrelenting The Lunge distance of a killers attacks Increases by 0.5/1.0/1.5 meters
- Beast of Prey Allows you to earn a token every time you hook a survivor, Your Red Stain grows dimmer with each token(Max 3). Gain 30/40/50 % more Bloodpoints for actions in the Hunter Category.
- Insidious you reduce your Terror Radius to 0 meters after gaining Bloodlust Tier I and stays hidden until you lose Bloodlust.
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Before I comment on this, you checked the Revised Version yes?
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Well regardless if you read the Revised Version, i'll keep these in mind for a future Perk Overhaul, at this current time what I post is what will currently be shown including the Revised Version.
But I will keep this in mind.
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Third Seal doesnt affect Jigsaw boxes, just like Huntress' Lullaby doesnt either. Third Seal is meant for slug builds, and, honestly, its fine like that.
A change for it would be to remove the Blindness effect and make it work like Knock Out.
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Didn't I say that it doesn't affect Jigsaw boxes?
Third Seal is most of the time never seen on any Killer I come across. I don't think I've honestly even seen a single Killer use Hex: Third Seal in my entire time playing this game, that's not an over-exaggeration I have zero memory of ever coming across it.
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I would rather Resilience be 6/9/12% when injured and 9/12/15% when Mangled and injured.
12% additional speed when vaulting windows is only ~.05 seconds shaved off, and 15% is still only ~.07 seconds shaved off.
Also, if a developer reads this, please consider making Spine Chill affect Vaulting too.
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What about No One Escapes Death?
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Here are my suggestions for underused perks.
Killers:
Corrupt Intervention: add When the generators become unblocked, the corruption spreads to 3 random hooks. Corrupted hooks can not be sabotaged and survivors hooked on corrupted hooks are sacrificed 10% faster.
Dark Devotion: remove obsession component. Last survivor hit gains your terror radius.
Distressing: remove percentage bases increase. Increase terror radius by 8/12/16 meters.
Dying Light: make it a pass/fail system when checking. Was an obsession killed or sacrificed yes/no? If yes, it remains active the whole game regardless of whether or not a new obsession is in the match.
Fire Up: Blocked generators count. (yes, this would stack with Corrupt Intervention but you'd lose 3 tokens when the generators become unblocked)
Furtive Chase: remove obsession component. Change to: "You lurk in the shadows, toying with your victims. When a survivor is rescued from a hook at least 24 meters away, Furtive Chase gains a token up to a maximum of 5 Tokens. The first 4 tokens decrease your terror radius by 15/20/25% while in a chase. You lose the red stain when you gain the 5th token. You lose 2 tokens if a survivor is sacrificed or killed."
Hangman's Trick: add Whenever a survivor is sacrificed with a reverse bear trap, add 1 reverse bear trap to your inventory.
Hex: The Third Seal: add When this hex is destroyed the effect persists for 120 seconds, but survivors not currently afflicted will not gain blindness if hit.
Hex: Thrill of the Hunt: remove current effects. Change to "Other active hex totems can not be destroyed while this perk is active. This perk's hex will have bright green flames. You can see the aura of survivors cleansing this perks totem. Gain 25/50/75% more bloodpoints for actions in the hunter category" (Not included in the perks description, but active totems protected by H:TotH will have a visible shield around them so survivors know they can't be destroyed until H:TotH is cleansed)
I'm all ears: remove terror radius restriction and reduce cooldown to 40/30/20 seconds.
Monstrous Shrine: remove current text. Change to Whenever you hook a survivor in the basement, 3 random unfinished generators are blocked for 30 seconds. Gain 500/750/1000 more bloodpoints for survivors sacrificed on a basement hook.
Play With Your Food: only successful attacks remove tokens.
Predator: Scratch marks glow brighter and fade more distinctly making the direction of travel easier to understand.
Remember Me: Change back to the way it was, but add "when there is only one survivor remaining the effects of this perk are reduced by 75%"
Save the Best For Last: No longer remove tokens for hitting obsession, however you do not gain tokens for hitting the obsession. Lose 4 tokens if the obsession is killed and can not earn new tokens.
Shadowborn: Add "vegetation within 12 meters of you is 50% transparent"
Territorial Imperative: change to- "Survivors auras are revealed to you when they are in the basement and you are more than 36/32/28 meters away"
Thanatophobia: penalty applies for sacrificed, killed or disconnected survivors in addition
Unnerving Presence: penalty remains for 15 seconds after the survivor is out of the terror radius.
Survivors:
Autodidact- Increase odds of skill checks when using this perk
Boil Over- Increase distance killers can't see hook auras to 10/15/20 meters
Buckle Up- In addition to seeing the killers aura for 6 seconds, also you and revived survivor do not leave scratch marks for 6 seconds.
Deja Vu- Reveal all generator auras at start of match for 60/120/180 seconds
Diversion- Add token system. Max token 3. Add 45 second cooldown.
Head On- Remove 3 second hiding in locker requirement
Left Behind- Add if the hatch is closed by the killer and you are the only remaining survivor, increase the speed you open exit gates by 25/50/75%
Lightweight- Add decreases the noise made by running
No Mither- Remove constant broken status. Add "whenever you are injured you gain the broken status effect for 120 seconds". Begin the trial injured.
No One Left Behind- Add if you are the last survivor to leave the trial, gain 2500 bonus bloodpoints.
Saboteur- When a hook you break respawns, it has 50% progress toward being broken again.
Solidarity- When you are injured, you can see the aura of the nearest injured survivor.
Technician- increase the odds of preventing gen explosions to 60/75/90%. Apply this bonus toward other survivors working on same gen
Wake Up- Change opening exit gates to 20/30/40% DECREASE in time it takes to open
We're Gonna Live Forever- Change to 10/15/20% bonus to all bloodpoints gained for each token. Gain 1 token for each completed generator
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Hex: The Third Seal isn't nearly as bad as a lot of players seem to think it is. The blindness effect is actually very powerful even against survivors that aren't running aura perks. It applies to all auras. So survivors can't see where a survivor in the dying state is or where they are hooked.
There is really only one bad thing about Hex: The Third Seal. And that is the fact that it is a hex. By the time you actually get multiple survivors blinded the totem gets destroyed. Plus it is competing against other very strong hex perks like Hex: Ruin or Hex: Devour Hope. It is generally a bad idea to run multiple hex perks because it is almost impossible to defend them all.
I would personally want to see one of two things done with Hex: The Third Seal. Either lose the hex aspect and reword the perk "Whenever you hit a survivor they are afflicted with the blindness status effect for 120/150/180 seconds" or make it so that when the hex totem is destroyed the survivors affected by blindness remain effected by blindness for an additional 180 seconds.
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I think few perks here are underrated. I am not saying they are some awsome power level, because they are not, but they are not garbage like the rest.
Survivors:
Resilience - Compare the rest of garbage perks, this one should not be on the list. This one boost you in every single action, that's good.
Wake up! - I like this perk and I used it many times (not the bugged one right now). It will give you and your team (if you are opening) position of gates. Also, so many times that 15% faster opening saved me from getting killed because killer was so close and without this perk I would not open that in time.
Deja Vu - This perk is no longer garbage. This perk is now "anti- 3 gen camp strategy". It's very good if you want to just sit on gens and it will give killer harder time to camp gens in late game (you can make gens pretty far away on some maps with this). It have it's purpose: to make gens harder to control.
Lightweight - I think this perk is no way near bad. It will make you way more stealthy when running and harder to follow. From 7s to 4s Scratch Marks it's pretty good.
Killers:
Hangman's Trick - This perk is designed to have complete control over your hooks all game. You will never lose hooks and if someone will break it, you will get them back very fast. For what it was designed, it's pretty good perk. It does good job in what it should.
Insidious - I know, "camping" dislike many people and it's not good strategy if you want to do it no brain every single game. But still, this perk allows you to create this playstyle and again = for what it was designed ->to camp -> it works pretty well.
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It does its job, it was created as an end game Hex, and as such... works as it was intended...
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