About the Enduring change...
When Enduring is changed to only affect pallet stuns and reduce the time by 50%, I hope you won't also forget to dial down the stuns that were increased because of it in the same patch. I'll say it again, in the same patch that you rework Enduring so it only affects pallet stuns, you must also decrease the stuns that were increased because of Enduring.
If this is not the case, I guarantee people will lose their #########, and for good reason.
EDIT: This thread has since been marked "BHVR Read".
Comments
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You mean the 4 second DS stun?
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where does it say anything about the enduring change? i havent found anything in the dev update
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I agree this is a very important point. They specifically admitted that they tuned the other stun effects higher BECAUSE of Endurings existence, so we need them tuned simultaneously.
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@Theluckyboi they talked about it on stream
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It's 5 seconds now, unless I missed something, and it used to be 3. It was increased to 5 with the excuse that it was too short with Enduring. Now, once Enduring is changed so it doesn't affect DS's stun, DS must go back to 3 seconds. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
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What stream?
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@Peanits @not_Queen @Patricia I know you guys have a lot on your hands, but this is an important issue I'd appreciate you bringing up with whoever's gonna make this change so they don't forget.
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The stream earlier today?
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Even if they don't change DS back (I agree it does need to be changed though), at least you can play around it
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No ifs. DS must have its stun reduced back to 3 seconds at the same time that Enduring no longer affects it.
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Tbh there could be a different compromise. For DS I'd actually rather it keep the 5 seconds IF we make it so it ONLY affects tunneling, of which it currently does not. IE reduce the timer to like 45 seconds or make it deactivate as soon as a different survivor is downed.
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No compromise. First, reduce it to 3 seconds at the same time that the reworked Enduring is released. Then we can test alternatives in the PTB.
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If it goes back to 3 seconds then the Enduring change will have been for nothing.
Did they change the DS stun to 5 seconds because of Enduring or to make it a stronger anti-tunneling perk?
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They explicitly changed it to 5 seconds because of Enduring, since they felt a 3-second stun was sufficient without Enduring. That's why it must go back to 3 seconds at the same time that Enduring stops affecting it.
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Well if it got 3 seconds then I wouldn't want to test any other changes. I think the change I was offering was more of a nerf than the 3 seconds. I'd rather it be stronger in less situations rather than weaker but works in more situations.
Either way though I'm fine with the 3 second change.
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Just a brief summary on the interaction between the new Decisive Strike and Enduring for anyone interested:
2/22/19: Decisive Strike Q&A
QUESTION: HAVE YOU CONSIDERED MAKING IT SO ENDURING DOESN'T APPLY TO DS STUN, NOW THAT THE STUN LASTS 3 SECONDS?
Horvath: There has been a lot of feedback regarding the 3 second stun for Decisive Strike, previously the stun has been 4 seconds for a long time, once upon a time it used to be 5 seconds. We are currently revising and investigating what we will do regarding enduring and the Decisive Strike timer, it may end up being 4 seconds, but I believe we will try 3 seconds in the PTB. I look forward to your feedback
3/14/19: Chapter 11 Q&A
QUESTION FROM BONGBINGBING
What was the reason for the DS Stun to not be effected by Enduring?
HORVATH - GAME DESIGNER | ANSWER
Decisive Strike’s stun time was aimed to be the same as the Wiggle Free/ Grasp Escape times which is 3 seconds. Decisive Strike and Head On will now be affected by Enduring.
3/19/19: 2.6.0 Patch notes
Decisive Strike: After being unhooked by another player or yourself, Decisive Strike becomes active for 60 seconds. If you are grabbed by the Killer while the perk is active, succeeding a skill check to cause an automatic escape and stun the Killer for 3 seconds. Succeeding or failing the skill check will disable the perk for the rest of the trial. Succeeding the skill check (and thus stunning the Killer) will result in you becoming the Obsession.
4/2/19: 2.6.3 Patch notes
BALANCE: Changed the Decisive Strike stun time to 5 seconds, with the Survivor being free to move after 1 second.
The Enduring perk now affects Decisive Strike's stun.
With feedback from the PTB and Live, we have changed the Decisive Strike stun time to 5 seconds, with the Survivor being free to move after 1 second. This should allow for the survivor to have ~ 4 seconds at a base to try and escape the killer after the stun is successful. When Enduring is used, the stun will be reduced to ~2.8 seconds. Of those 2.8 seconds the survivor will get a head start of ~ 2.28 seconds which makes escaping possible but much harder.
From what I can gather, when the stun time was 3 seconds during 2.6.0, Enduring Perk did not work with Decisive Strike.*
*Edit: I may have been wrong about Enduring not working with Decisive Strike in 2.6.0. Although I'm still unsure as to why 2.6.3 Patch Notes stated, "Enduring perk now affects Decisive Strike's stun" when it already did in 2.6.0, but there is a thread from March 20th (after 2.6.0) that had a title, "Enduring should not affect new decisive strike," which must mean that it did affect DS at the time. Sorry for any possible confusion. Thanks to @Victory for the correction.
Post edited by knell on3 -
I think this crown is going straight to your head. You don't get to dictate what the devs do, buddy.
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the king has spoken!
on a serious note: i 100% agree. that would be ridiculous if they nerfed the perk, but kept the stuns high...
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This has nothing to do with the crown (which is basically an inside joke, FYI). I've never outright demanded anything of the devs, but this is an issue that cannot be ignored, unless they want another strike (or worse). These two changes must come simultaneously, as opposed to having one now and the next in a month, since they are explicitly connected.
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We'll just need to wait and see what happens, there should be a PTB sometime this month right? I'm sure Enduring and DS stun will be tested there.
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I think the stun time should go down but I don't necessarily think 3 seconds is enough. The perk is being used once per match in very specific circumstances. Maybe if the timer was increased from 60 to 90 seconds. Otherwise I think 4 seconds is more fair.
Or maybe the stun is at 5 seconds if you're downed and picked up within 30 seconds of being unhooked, 4 seconds from 30-59 seconds and 3 seconds from 60-90.
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Orion is referencing a nerf, your changes are literally buffing DS. 90 seconds would be INSANE, even if the stun time was reduced.
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Insane. Lol ok. Says the guy who thought the exposed effect of Iron Maiden should go from 15 to 60 and 4 seconds of ayra reading when we have killers like Nurse, Hillbilly and Spirit in the game LOL.
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Someone who clearly has way, way more hours than you and actually understands a little more about the game. You'll see one day.
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@Orion okay come on, that "unless they want another strike (or worse)" is totally uncalled for.
DS needs a considerable and painful stun to do its job - make the user more difficult to tunnel to death. Not saying 3 seconds is way too little to have the desired result, I just don't see what's so incredibly urgent about reducing the stun time.
If anything I'd much rather see changes to the perk that prevents it being used outside of its intended purpose, like disabling the perk if someone else get hooked so users can't go for safe YOLO saves. In that situation DS punishes the killer for NOT TUNNELING, which is the polar opposite to its intended function. Perhaps even disabling it during EGC if need be, as at that point the killer is more or less expected to camp and go for injured people over everything else.
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Lol. I guess that was supposed offend me.
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Not at all. Just pointing out why you're confused.
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👍
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@Orion completely agree with you. Enduring's change is out of the blue and they better consider situations where perks were changed to cope with Enduring. IMO enduring is fine where it is and has always been fine. Nothing about this perk was OP like ever.
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Oh yeah, thanks
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@Orion, here is a quote from Peanits about the enduring change:
TL;DR, the change allows them to change stun perks.
“It's a couple different reasons.
- The wording confused people. Many people think of "75% increased recovery" as "stuns only last 25% of the normal time". This is not the case. Instead of being stun time * (1 - 0.75), it's actually stun time / 1.75. Your stun is only reduced by about 43% when you increase the recovery speed by 75%. With stuns just being half as long, it's much simpler. 2 seconds becomes 1 seconds, bing bang boom, everyone understands.
- The pallet stun durations are actually going to be about 0.15 seconds shorter.
- This way we can re-evaluate stun perks and better balance their stun times. Currently we need to make sure that anything affected by enduring lasts long enough that it doesn't render enduring completely useless. Take a look at DS, for example. It was a 4 seconds stun, where the survivor was locked into the animation for one second. This leaves you with only ~1.28 seconds to run if the killer is using DS. As a result, the stun time was raised to 5 seconds, giving you ~1.85 seconds to run. With that in mind, we could potentially lower it back down to 4 seconds (or even 3 seconds) after this change, making it more consistent whether or not you're using enduring.
It basically allows us better control over balancing stun perks so you're not forced to run enduring just to counter them. All things considered, you probably aren't getting hit with stun perks all too often currently. Decisive strike is easily avoidable and Head On is like a unicorn (it just doesn't exist, and I won't believe you if you say you've seen one). Ultimately you're going to save loads more time with the pallet stun reduction than you would lose from stun perks.”
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I don't think they will change it anytime soon. But i also don't think its a big problem. We are getting a small buff to enduring and who use enduring to counter DS anyway? I use that perk for mostly the combo enduring + spirit fury.
I rarely get stunned by DS because i don't tunnel prople and if i happen to find the injured i can leave it in dying state and come back later. Or just take the DS and down them again if im sure they won't last long.
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Holy ######### you actually got that crown!
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It did, and it always has except for the PTB. You forgot about the QnA they had after the ptb where he explicity stated "Enduring should not properly effect head on and DS." They put that on the patch notes with the 5s buff so killers wouldn't lose their ######### that ds is as strong as it used to be.
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It's technically 4. Survivor has a 1s drop and land animation before they can move.
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I agree with this, but I was thinking if you hook another survivor. And the timer shouldn't go down while you're chasing them since it should be anti tunnel, and the timer doesn't go down while you're slugged so you can't tunnel them then stare at them for 60s. But you lose the timer if you down and hook another survivor.
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the enduring spirit fury combo is busted with little to no counterplay. Spirit fury wasnt the issue where as it was enduring. Killers want survivors to hide and pallets are only a 2.1s base stun time, enduring makes it even more of a joke giving survivors no time to hide. What do you guys want? Stealth? or actually have a chase?
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I wonder why they wrote "The Enduring perk now affects Decisive Strike's stun" in the 2.6.3 Patch Notes if it had already worked in 2.6.0. Or was there a PTB between 2.6.0 and 2.6.3? Can you link to the quote where he (who?) said, "Enduring should not properly effect head on and DS." I'll correct my post to add it if you can provide it.
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You ######### yahoos
They already said on stream that this change was made so that they can take a look at everything else in this game that could potentially be considered a stun and re-evaluate how much worth they should have.
That means they can look to unify values when they should be the same regardless of enduring or no enduring, and that includes DS.
People creating threads to demand that after they already said so on stream remind me of the classic "Man creates scenario in his head, gets mad about it". Chill.
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And they already said that the DS fiasco was the breaking point for them to change enduring because they either kept under or overshooting it to accomodate values with or without taking enduring into the equation. They specifically refered to DS when talking about it. Again, chill.
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https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/51684/q-a-on-chapter-11-march-14th-2019#latest
What was the reason for the DS Stun to not be effected by Enduring?
HORVATH - GAME DESIGNER | ANSWER
Decisive Strike’s stun time was aimed to be the same as the Wiggle Free/ Grasp Escape times which is 3 seconds. Decisive Strike and Head On will now be affected by Enduring.
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Np, its fine. The devs write patch notes weird all the time anyway, so its not really your fault.
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3 seconds was too short even without enduring
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I think 4 is fair, definitely no to 3. The perk was reworked (nerfed) to be a tunneling counter, the stun should’ve never been lowered from 4 to 3 in the first place after making the perk situational. Now that Enduring doesn’t effect it, simply revert it from 5 back to what it was before and there shouldn’t be any complaining about it.
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3.5 seconds is fair.
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tbh, when MoM is changed the way it was described, it would be another reason to go for the unhooked person instead of the one who unhooked. Not giving MoM Stacks is simply a Plus for tunneling. If DS stays the same way and punishs tunneling, this would be a nice thing.
(In fact, people can still play around DS... So the Stun can be 5 minutes and a Killer can still decide if he wants to take the risk to get hit by DS or not...)
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