Legion Addon/Buff Ideas
Now that Legion has essentially been gutted I'm hoping we can see some actual power given back to him and see him evened out. The only things he needed was no drain in TR, no more quad stabbing, and to adjust Frank's. However, he just kept getting more and more tacked on for no reason. Such as the Pin changes.
Yea, they're better than they were before cuz they were a meme prior. However they're still not very useful. You're wasting Killer Instinct to apply a debuff to someone you'll just M1 and hook 9/10 anyway? It already starts draining after the 2nd stab/you fatigue so you gave them a speed boost and fatigued so you could apply a debuff. Not really worth it. Especially since if you do hook them they're just sitting on the hook draining the debuff anyway.
An idea I had to make the addons actually worthwhile would be the debuff applies on completing the mend action/or being saved either from the dying state or the hook. This way you can actually make use of the debuffs, and it adds some bite to DW that it really doesn't have. I'd like a general debuff on DW mending but I can only think of adding a minor action speed penalty. Atm DW is just here to buff Borrowed Time let's be real.
Maybe it could add a stacking action speed penalty until fully healed? Give incentive to heal. I get it, Sloppy, red bar bad, but let's face it. Tons of Legion's run SB anyway, and it still doesn't end the game for you, or help them really. Could be something small like 5-10% that applies after completing the mend. Obviously numbers are subject to change.
I'd also like to find a way to adjust Frank's, Fuming, and SWS so that they're not just trash. For Fuming I tossed around the idea of infinite Feral Frenzy outside of a chase. My friend's seemed to think it was a fair bit of power for an Iri and it's mainly just more mobility which is really nice to have. The second you enter a chase your meter drains, and it acts normal until it drains and recharges. Dropping a chase/getting killer instinct will not give you permanent. Only using it outside of a chase.
As for Frank's, I'd go with a stacking speed boost on successful FF M1, really encourage trying to multi-hit, works with duration addons, I like that. Even better let Frank's give Legion his old speeds back. Vault/FF speed, or just vault which imo should be reverted cuz slo-mo vault is just, why?
Stab Wound Study I'd say after mending you can only be healed by another player. After being healed the debuff is removed. I think this might be Iri level, though people generally run around injured anyway so, who knows? I know I just want some uniqueness with his addons, and I think these changes could do that. Note: You could also make SWS give the stacking speed boost, and make Frank's give old vault/FF speed back.
All in all I mainly just wanted to get my debuff application idea/DW buff out there. Cuz atm there's no reason to FF an injured survivor, you can't down anyone with it, it's a mild inconvenience at best. Doc's is what 12 to wipe off and you still have T2 Madness to deal with? Legion you're uh, injured. Most people don't heal so I don't see how that's scary.
Note: Not really an addon but I'd like to see the m1 whiff fatigue changed to a minor bar drain instead of just straight up cancel. A few hits should be fine. If you whiff the bar drains a chunk, easy fix.
Comments
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Hi!
Just a note about Legion's performance: I've checked some data on it, and their performance hasn't changed much since the update.
This doesn't mean we're 100% done with Legion, but at the moment nothing is sticking out, either.
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People actually play him other than me and a few others? Not gonna lie, a bit shocked. A lot of the nerfs were really knee jerk and unnecessary. Yea, he can still perform, but his power basically gets shut off after you injure people. A good chunk of a killer is their power, and Legion's is very limited/heavily stacked with punishments for simply using it. I'm glad he's not done, but these changes didn't really give me much hope for him in the long run. Felt like a lot of feedback was ignored in favor of just throwing out as many "fixes" as possible to quell the anger.
I appreciate the response though.
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I've started playing him since the nerf and have been doing pretty well relative to my efforts on other Killers.
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I get this,
but like, what's fun about a Killer whose ability is applicable Borrowed Time?
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And this is what gets me, I did this same playstyle before at 110. Everyone acts like you COULDN'T do it before he got 300 nerfs tacked on due to outcry. The only changes he really needed was a Frank's change, no drain in TR, and something to address just spamming FF to down. That was it, but they just kept gutting him and then scooped out the rest like they were carving a pumpkin.
I can do fine as any killer, but when it comes down to it, that doesn't make them good. Old Legion wasn't stellar either, but I quad iri/4k'd quite a few games. His power comes with an insane amount of downsides so you can, as Brady said, apply Borrowed Time. That's it, that's why the power exists. To buff BT without actually straight up saying they're gonna buff BT again.
If they don't heal, why would you even use your power? No other killer has their power just turned off after minimal use. Outside of the Plague maybe.
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@Brady Bailing Survivors up in mend time only goes so far. It's a pretty weak Killer ability compared to every Killer I can think of right now. Although yesterday I had 2 survivors go down to the bleed out affect of FF and I was like wha? Where the real power lies is in keeping up with the Survivor during the chase (which I love)
But yeah there is literally no reason to take Frank's Mix Tape and Stab Wounds Study because the bleed out timer doesn't go down during the chase so there is again, literally no way a Survivor would go down to this unless via their own neglect.
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That's why I enjoy Legion. I like that rushdown, it's like a more active Wraith.
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Can you give us further information on The Legion's new performance data?
1a. What is the current survival rate for Survivors in Rank 1-4, [excluding all matches that include any disconnects]** against The Legion? (To clarify, not asking for The Legion's kill rate, but for Rank 1-4 Survivors' survival rate against The Legion)
**Please, please stop including matches with DCs when analyzing your data, especially if you are making balancing decisions based on them. We all know that DCs (especially DCs done near the beginning of the game) have a severe effect on the outcome of the match, probably moreso than what killer was played, which is why we eliminated the possibility of starting the game with just 3 (or less) survivors.
1b. Can you give us the same information as above, except divided by Consoles vs PCs?
2. What percentage increase or decrease is there for the number of people using Legion, excluding any games that were used to complete the Legion's Daily?
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This is so sad. Can we buff the wraith?
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Need reduce cooldown after frenzy by 1 second
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I just leave it here for the current mood:
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I should say this.
Just because something is performing well, does NOT mean it's fun or alright for the person using said thing. I can get regular 4ks all the time as Trapper, does that mean he is a S tier killer that everyone should use?
No.
Just because it works, does not mean it is fun. Right now, the only thing keeping me from going back to the Trapper is the fact the Legion is highly customizable.
All respect to you, @Almo.
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Is this in red ranks?
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I like your ideas about the add-ons buffs, especially fuming mix tape and Frank's.
For the pins , I also agree, they shouldnt happen on 2 FF hits but rather once you are done mending.
Another add-on buff I would like to see is to get the speed add-ons back, they changed them to increase KI tracking range but it's pretty pointless there's no reason to use theses add-ons since you can't reach the survs anyway with how slow Ff is.
For the actual power, I still think we should get the old movespeed and vaulting back, and be able to activate frenzy whenever we want, having to wait for it be fully recharged is pretty stupid since they removed the ability to down with frenzy.
I don't mind the current stun to be left at 4 seconds, if we get the old speed back it will balance it out and make so we can't easily m1 down out of frenzy and give surv enough time to reach a pallet or window.
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I should note that Legion's popularity hasn't changed much, either. So it's unlikely they are significantly "less fun" to play after the update, at least as far as the community as a whole is concerned.
We're still checking more data and monitoring the situation. Ultimately the goal is to make each Killer a great experience for both Killers and Survivors alike.
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Will you be able to find the data for the questions that I asked above? In case you missed it:
Can you give us further information on The Legion's new performance data?
1a. What is the current survival rate for Survivors in Rank 1-4, [excluding all matches that include any disconnects]** against The Legion? (To clarify, not asking for The Legion's kill rate, but for Rank 1-4 Survivors' survival rate against The Legion)
**Please, please stop including matches with DCs when analyzing your data, especially if you are making balancing decisions based on them. We all know that DCs (especially DCs done near the beginning of the game) have a severe effect on the outcome of the match, probably moreso than what killer was played, which is why we eliminated the possibility of starting the game with just 3 (or less) survivors.
1b. Can you give us the same information as above, except divided by Consoles vs PCs?
2. What percentage increase or decrease is there for the number of people using Legion, excluding any games that were used to complete the Legion's Daily
Will you be able to answer it here? Thanks!
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Caretaker, time to crush this thread, Legion (after a lot of work and sweat) actually is in a better place now, they are pretty powerful, the only issue with them is of course, vault speed, but the change turned my little legion from being able to get 3-4k's commonly, to really common to get 3-4k's, showing that their strength has improved
THIS MEANS THEY DID NOT GET GUTTED
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@Hoodedfengm1n I agree they are stronger, but less unique and fun.
Seriously, I've said this before, including on this very thread, the ONLY thing stopping me from going back to the Trapper is the fact Legion is highly customizable.
But what I want isn't what the devs want, so
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I agree on the less fun and unique factor, they feel like trapper with the ability to get a free hit
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@Hoodedfengm1n Guess we'll die. Of a heart attack.
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Legion doesn't have any glaring flaws now, but he also isn't fun to play either. There is so little we as players can do with him if we were already playing Legion in this way in the first place. Everyone who played Legion without use of abusive tech has been overly hindered. His gameplay feels limiting and uncomfortable. Legion was already a low performing killer so your data is going to be maintained in a similar manner.
We've got no variety of ways to play Legion. If you don't run Etched Ruler and Stolen Sketchbook you have a much worse feeling gameplay wise. I would love to use my other addons cause I have almost 100 so some of them, but they literally are big hindrances. Every Legion thread is people saying he's unfun and doesn't feel good and the response has not been great. Getting told it will be better when animations are turned to the slower vault is kinda patronizing. 25% is noticeable and not just to the Legion player, but the survivor. We're back to dealing with people vaulting pass us on palette loops. That was considered an issue in Legion's chapter ptb and it was resolved. It felt bad then and it feels bad now.
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"It's unlikely they are significantly less fun to play"
Look at the reviews
Most of the players have no longer fun from playing as them ingame.
Post edited by Ihatelife on4 -
@Hoodedfengm1n Legion is stronger as a M1 killer sure, but that's the same deal with every other M1 killer.
What we don't like is how Frenzy is right now, especially all the restrictions, in this no heal meta it's almost like you use your power once per match and that's it, because it does nothing really interesting and is way too slow to be used as a mobility tool, wich used to be one of the old frenzy main feature, on top of spreading DW.
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This right here explains exactly what I've been feeling. I love how suddenly everyone's ok with Legion when 90% of them were massive hypocrites that only used Frank's and Cold Dirt while moonwalking.
Also, I played this way before and got multiple quad iris. Why couldn't any of you sudden lovers of Legion? It's so annoying to see people say, "Well he's a normal, basic m1 killer, so I can kill potatoes. That means he's totally fine." If 115 fixed ######### then Plague, Trapper, LF, Wraith, etc would be top tier right?
Also like how my changes wouldn't break Legion, but add variety and actually let him get use out of his addons. The response I get is one that doesn't really acknowledge my post, a few people who played like I did, (Hey guys, you're the mvps, glad I'm not the only one), and people saying he's fine cuz they had a good match. Also a few downvotes.
I don't care if you don't like the killer. I don't like infinites, and seeing 4 instaheals, but I gotta deal with it. A minor boost in power won't ruin your game. The fact people still DC against Legion honestly just sad. He's as basic a killer as they get, and people are STILL bitching.
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Ah, so my joke wasn't a joke. If he's so much better, or more fun, I bet he'd get more popular. The only ones playing him are probably the people who played him legit before, and the ones who got hurt the most by this update.
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Im sure you know already, but the biggest complaint is that he's no longer nearly as fun to play as before.
All killer mains know how to make use of a 115% M1 killer. The OP even states that they are still viable.
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I've actually enjoyed new Legion a lot for some reason. I do have a bit of an affinity for M1 killers but idk, I've been having a lot of fun.
The only change I'd make to base Legion is reverting the vault speeds if I'm honest. I don't see why they should be so slow if Frenzy is no longer a method to down people. The fatigue on missing is totally fine to me, you should not be missing hits.
And yeah his addons need work for sure, there are so many bad ones that it feels like there was very little thought/effort put into them. Like damn his Very Rares SUCK, they have absolutely no use (apart from Cold Dirt). And the Pins are completely counter intuitive and terrible.
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At the very least give a few hits. The only reason it was changed was outcry due to "m1 exploit". Even then I don't see why your power should turn off after a swing especially with how iffy the hitboxes can be, and how much control you lose after a vault.
Also, again, you could play this way before....
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Frenzy shouldn't be depleted totally on 1 miss though, give at least 2 swings then you lose the power no more no less.
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Why though? You just shouldn't miss, honestly. Landing hits is totally in your hands, it's your fault if you do (or the survivor spun/Dead Harded you), I don't see the problem in punishing it. Part of what made Legion braindead is he could just swing mindlessly with 0 punishment for missing.
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Because it's not a guaranteed hit, nor is it some crazy skillshot. Getting an extra swing or two wouldn't be a crazy buff to him. Especially as he is currently needing two hits to apply debuffs. Not to mention his power takes awhile to recharge as it is, and doesn't really do much anyway. Having an extra swing or two would be nice for when you get an iffy hit or randomly hit a wall or the pallet instead of a survivor.
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Part of what made him braindead was the ability to spam the attack. The change for him to lose the power and eat a stun for a single miss is way too harsh especially when his power isn't very potent coupled with the fact the now survivors can see him coming with his even slower FF and vault speed.
There are many reasons why someone could miss, not just survivors twirling but hitboxes and the like.
It's way to harsh to punish him that way for a single whiff, when the whole appeal of frenzy was to have multiple swings. Before it was 4 to thematically symbolise legions four members but now that it's been toned down, 2 swings is just enough.
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Yea, that's what I said in the original post if I remembered to add it. I know I commented about it. It should just drain the bar instead. 2-3 swings before fatigue wouldn't break the game.
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I respectfully disagree, I think landing hits is completely in the killer's hands. Like I've been playing a ton of Legion since the rework and I've maybe missed 2 or 3 times? And every time they have been my fault.
Like I said though I'm in favour of adding back his old vaulting speed.
Not sure what you mean by it was 4 before? I thought he never got punished for misses...?
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I appreciate your candor.
I mentioned it being 4 before, because he was allowed 4 swings before his meter completely drained, it subtly symbolised the members of legion being able to swings 4 times in quick succession.
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Considering his pick rate and win rate are about the same I'd say it's not that Legion isn't fun, it's that those complaining about him are a loud minority.
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Not sure if we're talking about 2 different things, but he could miss a lot more than 4 times. Unless I'm missing something.
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Regardless, personally he feels even more generic now than before. No sense if uniqueness. Part of the appeal for me at least was his speed and fluidity when in chase of FF. Now that that's gone he feels very homogenized and his power at the moment isn't very utilized.
I like the direction they're going in, leaning him more towards tracking, however more changes need to be made to him to make him unique again, because if I wanted to stall and just stick to tracking, we could just play doctor, 115% Ms is fine although it seems like a bandaid fix to me. I could've gone without it, if they had placed greater emphasis on the potency of his power.
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Or the devs have poor stats, and that pick rate is absurdly low and stayed absurdly low cuz no one liked Legion and survivors refused to play against him. Also, we don't even know if those stats about pick rate/kill rate are even legit. Legion was one of the worst killers on their last stat tracking iirc.
Also, he's not fun. I've played him since release, and getting utterly neutered isn't fun. I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks Legion is ok when literally nothing changed aside from a ton of nerfs, and he got made 115. A 5% speed boost and suddenly he's fun and ok. I'm glad my main is being nerfed around people who don't play him or only just now find him fun.
Play literally any other 115 killer and congrats, you're playing Legion except now you actually have a power to use. I don't get why everyone is just blind when it comes to Legion. Absolutely 0 sense.
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Frankly I think he's fun and unique currently. And the fact that he still has roughly the same pick rate means there's people who agree and play him because they find him fun.
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If 1% played him before, and 1% play him now, that's still a poor pick rate. How many people do you know that actually main Legion? How often do you see people streaming Legion gameplay?
That's great you find him fun and unique, you can enjoy your basic ######### killer. Unique is laughable, he's an M1 killer who sprint bursts with a broken leg. I don't like new Legion being neutered with no bite, and I actually played him when he was 110, with no addons, or any cheese. He literally is the most basic killer, who's power gets turned off the second someone is injured. You could literally play any other killer and mimic Legion gameplay.
Also, if the pick rate didn't change, that means no one else picked him up at all. It's just old players playing him.
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I respect your opinion, however I don't think those are people who find him fun, I believe those are people who are previously legion mains and still playing him because they want to and because they're highly customizable. Not because of fun.
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I'm an OG Legion main. Despite how flawed he is, I'll still play him cuz there's at least a crumb of what I enjoyed about him there and he gets decent point gain. I don't want him to be an exploitable mess for sure, but as you've said this isn't my idea of a fun killer.
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I'm an OG Legion main as well and I still play him for the exact same reason and in hopes he'll get better. Also, I need new skins for Julie. That Neon skin just for Joey was a smack to my face lol
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I know right! I'm a Susie main, and all I wanted was a Neon version for her same color and everything. I just use the hoodies and mix in the mask/karambit.
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