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Concept for a 2nd objective for survivors
Basic concept:
Survivors need to fill up generators with gas before they can start working on them.
There are 4 small gas stations on the map from where the survs can obtain gas. A surv can only carry 1 gas unit and loses the unit when getting hit. After losing a unit or successfully delivering it to a gen, the surv can get a new unit at one of the gas stations. A gen needs to get filled with 2 units before it can get repaired.
More details:
The size of a gas station is comparable to the Pig's jigsaw boxes.
Neither survivors nor killers can see the gas stations' auras. Similar to the gens' light poles, gas stations have poles with a sign so that they can be spotted easier from afar. They also emit small sounds that help finding them on maps like Léry's. (There is the possibility to introduce perks that make finding gas stations easier, but it's not necessary.)
The gas supply at each station is endless and it doesn't matter from which station the survs are getting the gas. Obtaining a unit and filling it into a gen are fast one-click actions, no progress bar, no skill checks.
The killer can't see whether a gen is filled with 0, 1 or 2 units. Survivors see the amount of units when they are at the gen. (Alternatively: There a 2 additional lights at the gen's light pole which each turns from red to green once 1 unit has been put into the gen.)
Of course, once a gen has been filled with a unit, this can't be reversed. After 2 units have been filled into the gen, you can start to repair the gen as usual.
That's the concept so far. Please let me hear your thoughts!
Comments
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I do like to have 2nd Objective.
A single objective, gen, which can boost in various ways of Dwight perk, start the trial together + far away from Killer offers, tool box, ultra rare gen part, No mither boost. Without Hex ruin, survivor can finish 2gens before a chase start. Thats when we know Killer is already lost the game.
Though playing as random match survivor, when you face Killers such as Doctor that can spot you and start a chase, make a hook or two before Hex ruin even found. We knows survivor team already lost.
Furthermore, if a Killer spawn near a Survivor, when that Survivor just tap the gen and Killer comes in patrol, the chase will be likely to start, the 1st hook happens in under 1min. This is when survivor DC.
I like to have a 2nd Objective that will not give Killer any hint about Survivor nearby, let survivors do that 2nd Objective, let survivors feel "We're already done 20% progressing of Objective, its worth to take the 1st hook". There will be more likely less DC.
2nd Objective should not be stack with perks like Hex ruin to make Survivor impossible to win. I mean they fill the gas in, start to fix, only to know there is a Hex ruin. If there is 2nd Objective, I think Hex ruin should be removed from the game.
I like how last year the nightmare has many objectives, but the Killer is too vulnerable & and survivors even spawn after dead. I feel there is no challege & doesnt give horror feel. Thats why I picked Dead by daylight in Feb 2019. I hope they decide to make 2nd Objective one day.
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Yeah I've been suggesting something similar as well.
However I think that some additional balance changes need to be done.
I wouldn't mind needing twice the amount of gas to get a Gen working, and it can be repaired even without gas, but the repair time should be a little shorter because repairing gens is boring frankly. Running around fetchingg gas is a lot more engaging.
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@Mochan Yes, I also think that running or sneaking over the map is more exciting than working at a progress bar with skillchecks.
I think 2 units per gen is a good number. It should give the killer a fair amount of additional time.
And if it should be a bit too much in the end, then yes, you could always shorten gen repair time a bit. (But I don't really think this is necessary. I feel that the additional 2 units is just what killer need to "get a foot in the door" and avoid getting gen rushed.)
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not bad. Except that it wouldn't make it "before work can start" that doesn't make sense. Instead it should be "before the generator can start." Since most of the time that you do engine work, you don't want gas or oil in the way. But it still will do the same thing.
I like it. I've been saying that they should add parts that need found. Then Brand New Part would just be able to be used instead of a part. Making it strong, but not OP like the current one is. But gas cans would be good too.
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@SmokePotion Let's not focus too much on realism. ^^ You could also allow the survivors to fill in the gas after they have done the repair work. From a tactical point of view, it would be best for the survs to start with the gas, that's why I chose to go with this version.
In the end, that's one point of the concept that easily can be adjusted. Glad to hear that you like the basic idea! :)
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Here's my feedback:
I like the idea of a 2nd objective, but there are some things I'll like to add. Every gas should allow survivors to repair 50% of the generator. This means if one gas can is used on a generator, it can now be repaired to 50%. If two gas cans are used on a generator, it can now be repaired to 100%.
Concerns:
Will Ruin make games last too long?
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Perk Corrupt intervention doesnt affect if there is 2nd Objective, but Hex ruin does. I concern about that, too.
Abit details idea from me to Gas as 2nd objective:
. Gas stations should not appears aura to Killer to patrol, I really want 2nd main objective isnt a dangerous work as doing gen.
. Currently doing gen take 80sec. I think its fair to get max gas for 10sec, the time to put maximum gas you're carrying into gen is 10sec. Repair gen time is 40sec. (get gas 10sec twice + put in gas 10sec twice + repair gen 40sec = 80sec)
. The maximum gas you carry fill 50% of the gen, you can only repair to 50%.
. Regression: lets tell you put 50gas into a gen, you fix to 30% then you get chased, the gen get regression not the whole progress, but only the gas (the gen lose 20gas that you're not done fixing). Regression gas can not be stopped. You can continue repair through remaining regressing gas. If you fill gas while regressing gas is happening, it will only lose that 20gas then it stops.
. When you're in dying state, you drop waste gas on the ground, you will have to get gas again when you're back to injured state.
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You get an upvote just for the nifty animation.
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I prefer as second objective killing the killer by a losing chases, getting stunned and not getting any hooks, so the entity is pissed and kills him/her
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^ this is just add in animations that killer dies when losing the game, give nothing change to the game play.
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nothing? u got plenty of satisfaction and tons of BPs + achievement
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Getting plenty of satisfaction from watching Killers die is a change of gameplay?
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the change is playing so good to win chases, stun killer and not getting hanged, yep it is a change of gameplay
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I'm assuming he's still trying to farm downvotes. Just ignore him.
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stop assuming so easily bro/sis
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The fact that you're farming downvotes is well known. You literally admitted to it.
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after being in jail I started to behave good, I cant catch u
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@NMCKE Thank you for the feedback!
"Every gas should allow survivors to repair 50% of the generator."
Sure, why not. :)
"Will Ruin make games last too long?"
I don't think so. Since the survivors have to run/sneak over the map to get gas units, this increases the chances of Ruin getting found by accident.
Also, gens are currently done too fast despite Ruin. I feel that my suggestion would just give the killer the needed extra time. If it would be a bit too much, you could always slightly decrease gen repair time.
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I’ll bring up the elephant in the room. What would be done with regards to camping? The time spent by survivors going around to collect 2 gas cans for each gen is going to play right into anyone who decides to camps favor. That is a fact, as the survivors can no longer rush gens against them. Their punishment is significantly lessened. Let’s say killer gets a hook fairly quickly and camps. Unless it’s a full swf, at least one person is going to go to the hook, at least initially for a good chunk of time. That leaves 2 survivors collecting gas and then repairing. At BEST, 2 gens might get done (if there’s ruin it might even be 1). So now we are 3 survs/ 3 gens left and they still have to collect gas. Safe to say where this game is probably headed. This can not happen. Just saying they’ll lose emblem points for camping isn’t nearly enough.
Also, I’m interested to see the next set of stats released that include EGC. Given that the 1 v 1 is very killer sided I am curious to see how much all these 3 Ks now turned 4Ks due to hatch closing effect the survival rate stats. It’s very possible things could be around 50% even at high rank, in which case if you add something like this, something would need to be added to killer as well. I’m not opposed to an additional objective for survivor, as long as things are balanced and the camping is dealt with.
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@Karl_Childers Camping gives a low amount of bloodpoints and also leads to bad Emblems. So why do killers camp in most cases? Because they don't have enough time and not camping would equal to giving the survivor a free escape and leave them with 0k.
A second objective for survivors (it doesn't have to be my suggestion) will be good for the health of the game. If killers aren't under that insane time pressure anymore, they will go for more chases. More bloodpoints, more Emblem points, more fun for them.
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Reminds me of when you had to fill the car up in the mall from Left 4 Dead 2.
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I don't think it's that complicated. It's still very simple and easy to teach in the tutorial.
Also running around is arguably easier than sitting on a gen for long stretches of time.
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Any adjustments in the time it takes survivors do their objective, needs to have a similar adjustment in the time killers need to do theirs.
Hook times should be lengthened to compensate, making camping a much more costly endeavor. Not only that, there should be something else as well. Something like a killer need sto get some "seasoning" to put on the survivor so that the entity will accept their sacrifice. Sacrifice doesnt' happen even if timer runs out if survivor doesn't get "seasoned". Killer needs to get hte seasoning froms omewhere, like the shack.
Or one or the other... balance will need to be found, but it's not as simple as just adding extra survivor objectives. But the game definitely needs to evolve. They showed they were willing to do so with the EGC, it's time to shake it up even further and take the game in the direction it needs to go.
Post edited by Mochan on2 -
Also running around is arguably easier than sitting on a gen for long stretches of time.
^ Yes, sitting 80sec at the gen is dangerous. Get gas could be safer like doing dull totem. Though 20sec put in the gas & 40sec fixing gen is still a 60sec sitting at gen.
But I see there will be plenty strategies potential with this game play:
- Put 50gas to all gens before doing gen. Means you get 15% progressing on each gen. And Killers dont even know it. Because there is no sight of a gen being worked on.
- Put 10gas on a gen, start repair it. Do the same to all gens. Makes Killers can not spot which gen is truly worked on. Second, you repair the gen only with 10gas, Killer can not regressing the gas because you leave no remaining gas in the gen. This take alot of work but also the safest way.
- Let say if survivor drops gas when take a hit. Killer may has another strategy that is more likely to hit multiple survivors to drop their gas rather than focus to down a single survivors. Killers get 50 blood points if survivors drop 50gas. There for they know if that survivor carry gas or not. (this can be too op for Legion).
- Let say replace regressing animation fx with gas leaked instead of sparkles, Killers can pay their lot of time to kick every gen to check if there is gas in it. Killers can Not regressing gas if gen processing is 0%.Survivors can put 5 gas in a processing gen to bait Killers.
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I started my own thread about a similar concept some time back. Here's a copy + paste of it:
Once a generator is at 50% repair status, survivors will not be able to progress further without finding and installing a part for the generator. When a survivor reaches half repair state they will see an icon on the generator showing the color and shape of a part at which point the part will spawn into the world at least 32 meters away from the generator. If a survivor is within 16 meters of a part, they will be able to see the aura of the part. The aura will be color coded to a specific generator. Once the survivor has picked up a part, they will be able to see the aura of the generator that it goes to.
Multiple survivors can pick up the same part, but once the first survivor installs the part it will be removed from all survivors inventories and survivors that had the part will no longer be able to see the aura of the generator. When a survivor with a part returns to the generator, they will receive a 1000 bloodpoint bonus for installing the part. If the generator is no longer at 50% repair status due to the killer kicking the generator while the survivor was looking for the part when they install the part it will repair the generator progress up to 25%, but will not raise the repair state past 50%.
If one or more survivor(s) are dead or DC then any generator that hasn't already reached the "part missing" stage will not be missing parts.
Brand New Part will lose all current text and be replaced with the ability to repair a generator without having to find the specific part. Using the part will consume it from the player's inventory.
I would also like to see it changed so when killers kick a gen, there is 5% immediate damage to the generator. That would put a little bit more power back in the killer's hands fighting gen progress. I'm open to other ideas and suggestions.
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Nice little animation, but why in the hell would the gas go down after the killer hits the generator? I think that is too extreme against survivors.
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I think this is a fair criticism. I think there needs to be some kind of "come back" mechanic for survivors if things are going south. For example, if a survivor DC's or is killed/sacrificed then the Entity fills all generators with gas so the remaining survivors can focus on just repairing generators. This might also act as a deterrent for killers camping/tunneling since it would increase gen repair speed.
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- but why in the hell would the gas go down after the killer hits the generator? I think that is too extreme against survivors.
Repairing time is only 40sec. It would be really fast if there are 2 survivor repairing a gen if they both fill in gas (10sec). Imaging the killers walk pass a 0% progress gen, because the gen is only filled in 100gas, there is no gen progressing, after more than 20sec, that gen is done.
The idea is to make survivors have more safe/evade time & less time doing gen, a dangerous objective. So in return it should be more easier for Killer to regress their work. Drop gas is an example. Its just like you're being chased while doing totem, you will have to do that totem again.
Not yet mention: this idea should have Hex ruin removed.
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If a gen progressing is already 90%, survivor can fill it up to 100gas, even if Killer kick the gen to make leaked 50gas, you can still repair 10% gen with the other 50gas.
=> Gen progressing can not be stopped. There for Gas should be easier to get regression
Currently Killers need more time to against SWF or spawn together without Hex ruin. While Solo need more time play before they get their 1st hook. For Killer, so even if 4 survivors starts together, they still need at least 30sec to find & get gas then another 10s to repair a single gen, instead of 4 survivors finish a gen in ~20sec. For Survivor, if they're solo or spawn alone, their 1st job is to find gas & fill gas into gen (20% progressing), which is a safer job than repair a gen for 20% then get chased, because sometime you just tap a gen then Killers is coming to patrol.
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The hatch is enough of a catchup mechanic for survivors. I'm fine with it even with the current state of EGC.
If new players need to learn how to sneak around the map, that's a good thing. We all had trouble escaping in our first few games. Learning to play better is part of the game.
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You seem to think toxic players who play Killer (about 80% of Killers) care about emblems or BPs.
What do I hear echochambered all through this forum from BOTH Killah Mainz and Survivors?
rAnK dOeS NoT mAtTeR. ReD rAnKs aRe FuLL oF tRyHaRdZzZz.
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Don't.
You can't control other players. You can't even control your SWF if one of them is feeling heroic and engages in risky business.
Don't punish players on "what" their teammates should be doing.
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Totally disagree. Outside of gens being completed, most people who camp do so because it’s just the way they want to play (thinking it’s easier probably), to grief, or they just aren’t any good. No way are these players going to stop just because they have more time, we can’t go by some honor system. “If we we give killers more time , people won’t camp anymore!”. We know that’s not true at all. There would have to be actual hard measures to stop it, otherwise people would just take the path to least resistance. Bloodpoints and emblems is not an acceptable counter argument if a killer can win the game by default whenever he wants by camping. That would be absolute crap and wreck the game. Both sides would have to be addressed
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Yeah I’m thinking along the same lines as you. I’m not sure what, I like your general idea of the seasoning, just something additional for killer to do so camping isn’t buffed like it would be if you just add to survivor. I’ve always believed something should be added to both sides.
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While I'd love for the Survivor side to get more than hold M1 at a gen and press space bar on occasion. I really don't see with how the game's balance has shifted this going well. In most of my matches, the Killer gets a easy 4K currently in the Purple Ranks. I was trying to prestige a Survivor, but I may switch to Killer with how the balance is starting to get tilt too far especially against solo Survivors. But I don't really want the longer wait times cause there are more Killers than full sets of Survivors at this point causing longer waits.
Adding another objective without some solid Killer nerfs or Gen changes would probably kill off Solo play.
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Increasing the hook phase time is probably the easiest tool when a 2nd objective gets introduced. It's not complicated and easily adjustable. Campers would still barely get bloodpoints and Emblem points and only 1k if the survivors play smart.
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i would agree about this idea now the problem if they are making this they need to do something about camping now i know that ppl will say "ooh but its legit" its not to be honest killer say that they camp cuz of the gen rush now with this idea it makes the game slow down and there will be no gen rush now this idea its only to prevent of get rid off the gen rush it gives less preasure for killer to try to find survivor but now this idea only gives a change on survivors and not on killers if they do something about camping and put this idea at the same time will be in the right track
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@Tru3Lemon Take a look at my reply above your post. :) If hook time gets increased with the introduction of a 2nd objective for survivors, a killer would have no benefits from camping.
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i did read multiple times but the thing is that some killers that i played against are way toxic example im good at looping not my fault of looping since it makes the chase longer now maybe you dont understand but in my case when the last gen its finish they got noed and they just stay there watching me dying on the hook or other example its there are 3 gens left and also get camp now i dont play this game now cuz its just boring all the time get camp i playerd killer also and i do not to this crap thing unless if theres survivors near ill just introduce a perk idea that if the killer its near the hook survivor and you save him he will get a speed boost or increase to healthy state but its very difficult since its just toxic to camp now theres alot survivor that are toxic i will be toxic those that are toxic on my team
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I think that can possibly work, I’d prefer an additional objective but that’s probably the easiest. They’d need to rework the struggle mechanic though as it would be unreasonable to expect people to mash a button longer than they have to now. I also feel the camped person on the hook should get distraction points or something, it would seem simple to use the same way they currently penalize killer emblem for camping and reverse it to give points to the survivor. This would keep people much more likely to not suicide on hook, and lessen the griefing aspect somewhat.
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@Tru3Lemon With increased hook time, there won't be an incentive/reason to camp, except for when the EGC has started.
If a killer camps you not for tactical reasons but out of frustration because you looped him "too long", then this hasn't anything to do with a 2nd objective for survivors. (If that happens to you a lot, you can use Deliverance + DS to help yourself in these situations.)
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I think this’d be a good idea and might encourage stealth play. :)
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People keep telling "totems" for the 2nd objective. Just point out totem is not a Must objective to do. Survivors only do if there is a Ruin, or find a Hex while running around. Noed is just a betting game of 'I hope survivors dont do totems'. Another point is Low rank Killers dont have Hex ruin that requires players to buy Hag,or Noed. We need a 2nd objective that is a Must do.
Beside Ruin is really effective to solo play if it spawn at a hard place to find, times of skillcheck appears, based alot with RNG. Also not as effective to SWF. 2nd Objective to replace Ruin will close the gap.
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I like this idea, very will done, and don't worry about anything else, like hex ruin, yes it might be harder for the lower ranks, but in the high ranks, hex ruin gets destroyed pretty fast or not and the survivors are still able to do gens quick, that's why a lot of things that are nerfed to be easier for lower ranks are almost useless in the high ranks
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I don't think so. Since the survivors have to run/sneak over the map to get gas units, this increases the chances of Ruin getting found by accident.
True, you have a point.
Also, gens are currently done too fast despite Ruin. I feel that my suggestion would just give the killer the needed extra time. If it would be a bit too much, you could always slightly decrease gen repair time.
I'm thinking Ruin should do something else as a Hex because objective times are going to be increasing a lot with this change.
I'm thinking it should make carrying gas cans more dangerous.
Hex (Ruin):
Survivors' will meet their demise if they dare to escape. Survivors carrying gas cans will suffer from the exposed status effect, and whenever they gas a generator, their aura will be revealed to you for 5/7/10 seconds. Upon this Hex being cleansed, any survivor carrying a gas can will automatically drop them.
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@TreemanXD @MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky Glad you guys like it!
@NMCKE I think Ruin could stay the way it currently is, instead new perks could be added for this 2nd objective. Your suggestion could be a new perk (I would change it a bit, it sounds a tad too powerful).
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Hex Ruin is a perk to slow down the game, we need a 2nd Objective to slow down the game, that kind of giving the 5th perk to Killer if Survivors dont gain anything in exchange. Adding Hex Ruin, combines with 2nd Objective will putting too much favor for Killers.
As your idea, Hex Ruin make survivors Exposed if carrying gas. Thats pretty much a free hook because every Survivors are likely to get gas first. This is no way 'fair'.
Hex Ruin being Gen consume 200/250/300% more gas (requires 6/7/8 full carry gas from Survivors to fill up) is more acceptable. Giving Killer ability to put Hex Ruin on 1 of dull totems to active the perk.
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@C3Tooth Keep in mind that survivors are more likely to find the Ruin totem by accident when they have to run/sneak over the map to collect + deliver the gas. Ruin doesn't have to be too powerful combined with a 2nd objective.
I agree that the suggestion to rework Ruin to give Exposed status while carrying gas is a bit too powerful. We are now going into the very detail when we are talking about potential perks for this suggestion for a 2nd objective, but that's fine.
I think it could be possible for a perk to keep the aura reveal for a couple of seconds, as @NMCKE suggested, and say the Exposed status is applied for like 5 seconds. (Similar to Iron Maiden.)
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