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List of Maps That Need Full Scale Reworks
Badham Preschool (Complete)
Mount Ormond Resort(Complete)
Family Residence (Reduce clutter)
The Game (Complete)
Grim Pantry (Complete)
Mother's Dwelling (Reduce size)
The Temple of Purgation (Reduce size)
Lampkin Lane (D̶e̶l̶e̶t̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ Complete)
Disturbed Ward (Complete)
Wretched Shop (Complete)
Wrecker's Yard (Size)
Rancid Abattoir (Complete)
Torment Creek (Complete)
Fractured Cowshed (Complete)
The Thompson House (Complete)
Rotten Fields (Complete)
Ironworks of Misery (Close the infinite)
Comments
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Naw all the maps are fine
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Agreed. So many of these maps are just dogshit, and arguably some are for both sides.
Hey want to play 95% corn? Oh, sorry, I mean Rotten fields?
Not to mention how a few have straight up infinites.
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You know what you call a Myers main in the cornfield?
A stalker.
.....I'll see myself out.
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I only want to see Haddonfield's dumb fence infinites removed and also the Thompson's house, it has way too many safe pallets.
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All the maps need massively increased amounts of clutter/debris/tall grass/reeds/boxes/fog etc and amount of pallets reduced.
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the maps are fine
@Blueberry the pallets are fine in some maps are less than others
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This seems relevant so I'll drop it here. Might spark some interesting conversations.
Obviously survival rate alone doesn't paint a perfect picture, things like the ironworks window are totally valid criticism in spite of the average survival rate. A complete rework might be a little overkill for a map like Wretched Shop when the issue boils down to a single very strong loop, for example. It's a lot more helpful if we can identify why something is a problem rather than scrapping it completely and starting from scratch. If you don't know why something is an issue, you're doomed to repeat it.
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My apologies, it was mostly a vent because I've gotten nothing but Depip Farms today.
ABSTRACT: Large maps widen the disparity between the haves and have-nots (mobility principally) and completely skew balance.
Further, maps that sport a lengthy time waster that cannot be mind gamed WITH pallets in an immediate proximity to it turn a 20 second loop into a minute long loop and killers whose powers do not affect looping will just lose due to gen times and map size.
Map specific grievances
Badham Preschool: Has an incredible amount of vaults, some of which turn into a minute and a half long loops with Balanced Landing. If the Basement doesn't spawn in the preschool bottom floor, it's nearly impossible (often literally impossible) to reach a hook.
Mount Ormond Resort: FPS drops and scratch marks failing to spawn aren't the only problems, as the map is quite large and littered with multi-palleted vaults.
Family Residence: Just too much clutter, the map really isn't too bad.
The Game: It's impossible to hide from the killer and as such certain killers (Doctor/Nurse come to mind) will completely bulldoze you. Consequently, 5,000 safe pallets were added. Not exactly a fun or skill-indexed match up.
Grim Pantry: The basement problem of the preschool happens here with the pantry itself, but markedly worse. Very easy to hide on this map which is great, except there are also an ocean of vaults and pallets.
Mother's Dwelling: Phenomenal map, just too large. One of the best maps artistically.
The Temple of Purgation: I love the design, just another map the size of a continent and that just dooms 90% of killers to depip versus any semblance of competency.
Lampkin Lane: Sorry it isn't helpful, but this one needs a complete overhaul because it has the works; plenty of areas to hide, two guaranteed true infinites but can RNG spawn a third, pallets everywhere and most of them are safe, large map and RNG can screw survivors by spawning 2 gens in one house with a third gen outside the door.
Disturbed Ward: The map is ENORMOUS and has an infinite. Another of those maps where Balanced Landing equates to invincibility against most of the Killer roster.
Wretched Shop: The center tile is still a ridiculous time waster and has a myriad of other vault loops to waste your time, then piles on an ocean of safe pallets for good measure.
Wrecker's Yard: Great map but is a little on the large side considering the sheer pallet quantity it provides. Another of those maps that just needs a tweak to become a solid map.
Rancid Abattoir: One of the worst maps in the game, a characteristic shared by every Coldwind map. This one sheds the problem of map size for just having chainable semi-infinites within such close proximity that even with proper corralling, they're still three steps from another mega loop.
Torment Creek: Loops as far as the eye can see, a semi-infinite main tile and safe pallets everywhere. Quite a large map as well, far larger than it needs to be.
Fractured Cowshed: Ridiculously large and full of safe pallets and time-wasting jungle gyms. The Cowshed is still a virtual safezone which is phenomenal when your basement is located there.
The Thompson House : Continues the trend of Coldwind; enormous and full of time wasters.
Rotten Fields: Literally a gigantic cornfield with safe pallets and jungle gyms on the outside. Needs a rework because without ridiculous loops, Hillbilly negates the map size and would bulldoze everyone.
Ironworks of Misery: The infinite window is absurd and even worse with BL.
It's worth noting that in general, the maps I listed are towards the top of the list. At high ranks in particular, these are just insurmountable as weaker killers.
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I disagree.
Map design is one of the biggest issues in the game right now.
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The main issue is RNG tile placement
For example, there can be areas where even if you have Spirit Fury + Enduring and you break a pallet with Spirit Fury, the survivors can run to another pallet before you can hit them
Now imagine that, but without Spirit Fury + Enduring. Such spots waste massive amounts of time and the majority of killers have no way to deal with it. There is no skill involved from the survivors. The game just decided to give them a super safe area for free
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It's much worse when what you described exists, but there's also a giant jungle gym or semi-infinite next to it. Now, they can run you through the infinite 3 times, then use the pallet, then run you through 3 more times.
Considering you have 4 minutes before 5 gens pop, you can't afford to spend a minute per hit when they could have instant heal and MoM, and you need 9 hooks; each hook taking from 2 to 3 hits to achieve.
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@Peanits Rotten fields is a known problem map. Even after you fix the sounds (which will be when?) That map is all kinds of bad. It's not that fun to try and hunt people on a map that prevents you from seeing. A map where about 1/2 of the totem spawns are in the open
The map is problematic to balance, i get it. If you went true to the horror trope and lowered the corn so the killer could see and the survivor couldn't, it would be a slaughter. Not nearly enough cover for the survivors.
That's why I suggest you retire the map. You have 2 other farm maps. On top of that, you have a TON of other maps, and new maps coming out. I think it's a good time to start discussing retiring maps that are to strong for one side.
You could even make a casual match que where these maps are playable. Giving the two lobby types another distinction, besides a lack of rank. This will let you continue to work on future maps, and can rework older maps if/when you see fit.
edit: I just remembered there's actually 4 farm maps. Abbatoir, Thompson House, Cow Shed, Rotten Fields.
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I disagree
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Rotten Fields is bland and boring and doesn't offer anything that other maps with corn fields don't already offer in better ways
Agreed, it should go in the trash
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nice thing that u guys seem to actually know whats the problem and have a solution. but why havent u done something about it in the last 3 years? and the new changes on the corn maps is not enough at all if u wanna bring that up.
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Crotus prenn infinite , haddofield infinite , wretched shop infinite those need rework the rest is fine.
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We're going to be revisiting some of the older maps going forward. Historically there has not been enough time revisit old maps while also creating new maps. I'd suggest watching the anniversary stream this Friday, we'll be talking about our new map rework philosophy.
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So you want to destroy every good survivor map?
I only agree with haddonfield, that map is ridicolous
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Larger maps would be nicer if time could be scaled accordingly, but you run into issues with killer mobility designs. The primary problem is Hillbilly, since there's no penalty or cooldown to his compared to Nurse and Spirit.
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The thing with corn maps right now is, busted sounds on one hand, graphics downgrade to favor fps on the other hand. You can't see anything through corn after 2.6.
There's only so much you can do as a killer in rotten fields.
Sounds can be fixed, but graphic quality?
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Most maps don't even have a 50% survival rate, so, I'm pretty sure maps are ok. Like Peanits said, survival rate isn't the only factor here, but I'm sure most maps are fine the way they are.
Infinites should be fixed, although i'm not sure how and I think boarding up the window permanently is bad choice.
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It's not so much a matter of open/closed, there's a lot more we could do to change a loop. We could also open up a way, for example, which would shorten the loop and cause it to get blocked much sooner. Since maps like the Ironworks were created, we've come a long way and now have much better tools to determine how strong a loop can be and a better understanding of how we can limit that power.
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Lery's and Meat Plant are bland and boring and don't offer anything that other maps do. They should go into the trash.
Rotten Fields has a 50% survival rate. That means it has a 50% kill rate.... that means killers can do plenty on the map.
And that is already the best Survivor map.
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My concern is that certain looping spots like the Ironworks may ostensibly seem fine when one examines the net survival rate, but a closer inspection may reveal that more experienced survivors can better exploit the map's design.
I myself whilst climbing the ranks questioned if the maps were improved (I've just returned from a hiatus) and as soon as I got back into the high ranks realized that whilst an inexperienced survivor may run me for 20 seconds at Ironworks, an experienced survivor will run me 3 times, then loop a pallet to remove the blocker, then loop the Ironworks again, and so on. Not to mention, some killers circumvent this issue better than others.
Is there data to substantiate this hypothesis? Also, is there a kill rate per map by killer? Certain maps completely demolish every killer save a few.
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I really want to emphasize the problem of large map sizes. For most killers, a large map size means we waste an additional 20 seconds travelling from one generator to another when patrolling, but certain killers (Nurse/Hillbilly/Hag to name a few) completely negate this weakness.
Therefore, to avoid those three from totally butchering survivors, additional safety via pallets, hiding spots and jungle gyms have to be added. This just two-fold screws the weaker killers.
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@legion_main Play Huntress on Lampkin Lane, then come back with how that went, and if not Huntress, every killer struggles there except Trapper.
The same can apply to Survivors surviving on The Game, both these maps and many others like these need to be reworked, maps with infinite's just need them nerfed, not reworked.
But The Game, Badham Pre-School, and Lampkin Lane need to be changed ASAP.
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Hey don't go telling people to "reduce size".
Coming from a Killer, and a Leather-Billy for that.
Variety is needed. Leave maps as big and bring bigger maps.
Post edited by Yohan on0
