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MoM nerfed to the ground
Comments
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@NoShinyPony Again, how exactly is SF counter-able? Other than communication in SWF telling you a killer has it? Please explain. (also adding that you get this perk to proc multiple times).
What it does won't be gone, only the way it is obtained. So if the perk is unbalanced (according to you) why do they keep the full effect? and furthermore, if it is un-counterable... how do you counter it now? because it is still the same result as before. Only chances now is that you might not get as many of them to proc. That's it.
I mean, it's not like this is going to stop people from complaining or creating threads about how powerful this perk is.
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oh no my crutch perk is gone and now i actually need to use skill to survive. oh no.
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@Johnny_XMan Spirit Fury can be countered by dropping the pallet early. Early drop = no killer stun = Spirit Fury doesn't get activated. That's not a hard concept to grasp. I'm not going to explain it any further.
Also, balance is not only the effect of a perk, balance is all the aspects of a perk combined.
You want to defend the current version of MoM, you are allowed to do so. If you want to ignore valid arguments, you can do so as well. But that also means that it is not possible to have a reasonable discussion.
Edit: typo
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@drunky26 actually the "crutch" perk as you call it is still there. Or did you not see the notes on the change?
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@NoShinyPony Ok. Got it. So for Mettle, you chase a survivor and once the perk procs, you just hit them again. That's also not a hard concept to grasp.
If balance isn't just accounting for the effect, (as you yourself pointed out) why is it that Spirit Fury procs much easier, and more times than Mettle? I mean let's not pretend you have to actually work for that either.
I am not even defending the current MoM, I already said I myself use it as the devs now want us to use it. I am just trying to make a point that it isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. That it might just be the way they play, as I myself haven't had an issue playing killer against it. Half of the people who had it during my matches never got to use it, it never even proc'd.
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@Johnny_XMan You are ignoring arguments. It's not possible to have a discussion this way. Bye.
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@NoShinyPony Not really, but it's cool.
Have a nice day.
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LOL, so spirit fury is balanced and MOM isn't? Survivors will only know you have spirit fury after you land a free hit. If the survivors aren't SWF, you can land more free hits. Also it's not always that you can put the pallets down earlier. It's absolutely double-standard to say that MOM is OP because it gives you a free hit while Spirit fury isn't.
While I do agree MOM should be nerfed, three protection hits is definitely not the way to fix it. It will become one of those useless survivor perks like deja vu. Actually I think deja vu will be more useful that the new MOM.
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Exactly. When i started this threat, the first thing i said is that MoM is unfair for most m1 killers as it is now. BUT, nobody is taking 3 protection hits just to be smacked one more time. In that case i'll put MoM away next to deja vu and sole survivor and bring an insta heal with me.
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I’ve used sf alone a lot and it isn’t weak.
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@k7142001 I initally compared Spirit Fury with MoM only because people keep saying "You don't have to work hard to get MoM to proc"... not because of what each perk does.
It really puzzles me how as killer it is so easy to proc SF (multiple times), b/c all you have to do is break 3 pallets, but no one has an issue with that. There are no multiple threads about how powerful this perk is... why? Because people learned to accept and adapt.
Imagine if it was nerfed in the same fashion as MoM and the pallets were now linked to obsession, so only pallets the obsession drops count as a stack. People would lose their minds.
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Enduring alone is a very good perk. It's a frequently used perk for killers even before spirit fury came out. You're making it sound like that enduring is useless unless when paired with spirit fury.
Also, survivors should always try to make the most of each loop. To assume a killer has spirit fury and drop every pallet instantly is very detrimental to your team. Moreover, like I said, you are not always able to drop the pallet earlier because killers can lunge into the pallets.
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the perk was dumb to begin with
honestly if they removed the speed boost the survivor gets when mettle triggers it'd be much less stupid
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@Miasma So you are suggesting that you remain in the same exact spot, only to get hit one more time in the same spot. Yikes.
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the exact same spot? so when a killer hits you, you just stand there while they go through their blade wipe animation? you don't run or anything?
i guess i can see why you run this perk now
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You don't know what a counter is do you I'm honestly assuming that because I don't want to insinuate that you're that dense.
If you have to hit the survivor again you didn't counter the perk it's still went off the effects still happened.
That's about as dumb as me saying hey to counter no one escapes death get hit so you know if it's active.
With dropping the pallet early the perk will never take effect doesn't matter how many pallets the killer breaks if they don't get stunned it's pointless.
However the current version of MoM will always waste time that the killer just doesn't have. There is nothing they can do about it unless they're playing a killer with a damaging based ability and even then that doesn't count.
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@TreemanXD Try reading the full post, then go and read my reply.
I know you want to make me look dumb cause I obviously hurt your feely weelies :(
just shows how immature you are. Cheers!
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@TreemanXD Try reading the full post, then go and read my reply.
I know you want to make me look dumb cause I obviously hurt your feely weelies :(
just shows how immature you are. Cheers!
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Again though, you need to use Enduring with SF in order to take advantage of the perk. The cost is a perk slot (enduring) and needing to get hit with a pallet after you have the tokens. The counter is simply to drop pallets early. Sure its not tough at all to get the tokens but getting the proc isn't "free" vs decent to good players.
MoM (old version) had no way to counter. "Not hitting the survivor" isn't counter play when you are a M1 killer and need to get kills.
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He said it was unbalanced. I didn’t know you hurt my feelings. 🤷🏼♂️
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A counter isn't simply preventing it, but getting rid of it counts as a counter. It guarantees you will not see it again.
So how can you counter the perk now? Or are you going to pretend like you don't need to hit anyone? The full effect was and is still there.
"However the current version of MoM will always waste time that the killer just doesn't have."
Oh. I wasn't aware that we were on a killer's watch. I'll make sure that next time I'm in a chase, I don't get chased for too long.
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I know i chainsawed a dude and they had mom and i just died inside
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We hate that it gives survs an extra hit and are able to extend chases way to long and now instadowns are prevented because of mom so stupid which is why we want this dumb perk gone
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Hahahahaha
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I'd rather see it nerfed into the ground and buffed tentatively from there, than to see it stay in it's current state for months or years until they settle on a change.
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Nice strawman. Little hint using a straw man never helps your argument in fact it makes it seem more weak.
Once again what you described is not a counter you win no way shape or form countered it, the perk did it's job.
Also a good survivor can waste The Killers time without the use of a perk MoM normally if a survivors waste of your time a killer can abandon the chase or mind game the survivor to get the down.
Put this to you in a very simple terms
You counter spirit Fury and enduring by throwing the pallet down early with no stun they don't benefit.
You countered nurses Calling by not healing in The Terror radius if you are up against the killer with a low terror radius perks like spine chill can warn you when not to heal.
These are counters they prevent the thing from taking full affect.
Hitting the survivor again has done nothing to counter MoM has already gone off and it has already been successful in its objectives whether you hit that survivor again or not the perk would go away you didn't counter anything what you did was a trigger the perk.
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The entire reason why I even voiced my opinion was because I didn't think Mettle was in as bad of place as many people make it sound. Not everyone was using it as many claimed, many didn't even get to use it at all. (From my experience playing killer)
Your whole argument is about how Mettle doesn't have a counter, and yet they created no counter. Are you going to not hit a survivor trying to take a protection hit now? It will have the same exact result. I won't be surprised if (the same) killer players still complain about it after the change goes through.
We can agree to disagree on Spirit Fury, because I think there are many things that can factor into getting a pallet down before the stun. I mean, as it is, you can throw the pallet down and the killer run up to it (while being 4 feet from it) while it's down and still count as a stun. I've gotten stunned in places I shouldn't have. Still this perk has little to no counter, so I was just comparing it's similarities of how very little effort it took to proc it, much like Mettle.
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@Johnny_XMan Since you are mentioning your own experience as a killer with MoM: Which killer(s) do you play and on which rank?
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how can ppl even defend MoM? like how zero knowledge do have to not see that this perk is just busted and doesnt belong in the game? damn biased kids who are bad at the game and only play one side.
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The change that is coming you actually have to earn your invulnerable stage the Perk gives you rather than the killer doing all the work and you get him all the benefit.
When something has no counter, is that easy to get and offers a considerable reward if there's a problem.
Let's compare it to another very controversial but no one escapes death.
This perk might give you a considerable reward and is relatively easy to get however it can be countered before it even comes to play and even once it comes into play you can remove it just as easily.
Now there still may not be a counter but you now have to earn your considerable reward which I'm perfectly fine with.
Basically what I'm saying is there are three things to a perk
1) does it have counters
2) do you have to earn your reward
3) does it give you a considerable reward
Bad or broken perks will give a negative response for all these factors and I mean all 3
Either it has too many counters or too few
Either you have to do way too much to earn it or way too little
Either it doesn't give you a considerable reward or it gives you too much of a reward.
I'm perfectly fine with a perk negatively checking one or two of these factors however when it's all three the purchase either complete rubbish or broken.
I found being honest I personally don't have a problem with MoM but I do have a problem with it's overpowered synergy.
Dead hard
Defensive strike
Adrenaline
When perks combined with MoM it can drag out the time of a chase to ridiculous standards.
As I said before I have no problem with a survivor using loops and skill to waste a Killers time that's their job however when you have a perk build that could basically can do it for free, so any braindead skilless potato can waste a killer's time that's when I have a problem.
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They don't play m1 killer at red ranks.
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Why MoM is OP (In it's current state): Killer has no idea you're running it, provides a free hit, no way to counter it, downside is ignorable since it's used endgame. How it's obtained is getting hit, which gives the survivor a speed boost, rewards you for playing bad (which is unfair to NOED too, since NOED can be disabled and countered, while MoM can't.)
Why spirit fury isn't OP: Require's spending time for 2 pallet breaks per activation, still stunned for some time, require's taking the stun, can be avoided once it's know by throwing the pallet earlier (at most they will get on hot because of it in SWF games), optimal use requires 2 perks (Spirit + Enduring)
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@Aari_Piggy66 I understand what you're saying now.
Look, I know the perk is pretty strong, I don't think anyone can disagree with that. I've already said before that I already use the perk as we are now going to be meant to use it with protection hits. So I don't even know why I am sounding like I have a problem with the change. lol
My opinion was based on my own experience playing with and against it. I've had moments where I wanted to pull my hair because this person deliberately wanted me to go for them (because they knew they had Mettle proc'd) while the rest were fixing the last gen or something. So I understand the pain in that sense. However, I can't really sit here and say that the person who was tunneled for an entire match did not deserve the extra hit. Regardless of how they obtained that, they basically carried the team.
The change will go through and hopefully it balances out in a way that both parties are happy.
Thanks for taking the time and discussing with me, while being open to other perspectives even if we disagree on some parts, not many people who do that around here.
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