Yet Another Pig Thread :)
Since we finally got the Freddy rework info I can switch gears and put on my RBT and come up with some awesome Pig ideas :D besides Freddy she's my second favorite Killer <3
So we all know that her roar should be at the end of the charge and not the beginning and everyone has conclusively said that Rules set No. 2 should be Base, we won't won't be mentioning that here. Also I will like to add that Huntress Lullaby works on Jigsaw Boxes in my changes because GASP it doesn't for some reason. Anyway, tell me what you think and I hope some of the Devs see this to add to their notes for whenever they choose to help her out. They're helping out the Saw Bros and Nurse next I believe, hopefully sometime this year it really will be the year of the pig lol
GENERAL
Pig's POV needs to be raised when she is crouching, we see lots of grass but not so much the people seeing us eat that grass.
ADD-ONS
Ultra Rare--- Faulty Trigger: An improperly installed trigger causes the Reverse Bear Trap to start prematurely. RBT are active when placed on Survivors, Endgame Collapse Timer pauses if a Survivor is wearing one during this time.
Secret Message: A recording of Jigsaw informing the player that this isn't their game.When a Survivor removes a Reverse Bear Trap after searching two or less boxes, another random Survivor automatically gets a Reverse Bear Trap placed on. Traps placed by Secret Message do not trigger this effect. Based on Input by TAG :)
Very Rare--- Amanda's Secret: You can see the Auras of Survivors searching Jigsaw Boxes. Jigsaw Boxes take slightly less time to search and Traps are inactive within your Terror Radius rather than in chases.
Rare--- Rusty Attachments: Survivors caught in a RBT suffer from the Mangled and Exhausted status effects.
Interlocking Razor: Skill checks shake and appear randomly while searching Jigsaw Boxes, Tremendously increases penalty of failed Skill checks.
Serrated Blade: The hidden blade has been replaced with a serrated edged blade allowing a much deeper cut. Successful Ambush attacks inflicts the Broken status effect for 60 seconds.
Common---Combat Straps: Slightly increases Crouch movement speed
Shattered Syringes: Slightly increases Ambush distance
NOTES
The Secret Message add-on was inspired by the later Saw films where people in traps weren't necessarily the main focus, more of a pawn for someone else's game. Saw 4 had the woman in the scalping trap and Saw 6 ''The Healthcare One'' had that surprise twist at the end. I was debating about adding a penalty of only having 2 traps with this add-on but wasn't sure if it was the right penalty.
When I remade Amanda's Secret I wanted it to be what everyone says it should be but also add in some kind of downside to go with it. I increased the search speed and added in the TR switch as well, that way you can Crouch over to someone searching the box and the timer can continue to go down. If you just run at them it will stop and they'll know you're coming and get off. You can play this add-on aggressively or defensively it's up to you.
I changed Rusty Attachments to have the Exhausted effect and completely got rid of the Hemorrhage effect, everyone agrees that Hemorrhage is a plus but never really an important effect so it doesn't deserve it's own add-on and adding it to this add-on is just distasteful because then you have an inferior version of Sloppy Butcher.
The Interlocking Razor and the razor wire add-ons were tricky, someone had a good idea for all the skill check add-ons but I forgot what it was. That's why I changed Interlocking but didn't change the razor wire because I couldn't think of anything.
I made Serrated Blade because I felt that Amanda's add-ons were too trap focused and not enough on her Ambush so I added a status effect to give her Ambush more versatility and stalling power. You can strike someone with Ambush and if there is another Survivor around you can chase them instead leaving one to eventually heal.
I changed the common add-ons because the current Combat Straps are basically pointless and she needs more speed during Crouch. As for the Syringes I felt this should effect her actual Ambush but indecisive about more speed or more distance but chose distance for those who use Ambush at pallets.
Comments
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I I like secret message, but it needs to have a minimum time, where it can't deplete pass this, and if switched to another survivor it can't be below a certain time, or people will troll and wait till 1 second to remove it only to kill another survivor.
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@AetherBytes Oh I'll have to reword it then, when the trap switches the timer resets but it has 15 seconds taken off the base time. So if the timer is 2 minutes then when it switches the other person starts at 1:45.
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No problem. While we're speaking about altering and adding stuff, what do you think of my killer idea?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/67225/killer-concept-the-prisoner#latest
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The secret message thing sounds great...only part I like. The roar exists at the beginning of an ambush for a reason, the game would be too easy if there wasn’t some type of non perk warning. The Pig is easily a great mid tier killer already. Her ambush attack greatly comes in use for loops and jungle gym hot spots. With looping being the #1 way for a survivor to prolong a chase, this is VERY useful. It is also why unlike many others, I don’t mind survivors being able to waltz out the exit with a trap still on. The goal of traps is to prolong gen repairs, not kill. If the gates are opened, you no longer need to prolong gen repairs lol. The Pig is fine (and plenty strong) just the way she is, no enhancements needed.
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@IMhereRUN Most if not all Pig players here will disagree with you. She's supposed to be a stealth Killer, her roar is fine and it's use totally understandable but because it's before she actually uses the ability it gives Survivors a heads up and they run away making any actual hit with it luck based, not skill. If the roar was at the end of the charge bar and then she gets up and starts running it would give her time to choose a target and actually hit, instead of ''OKAY HERE I GO, OH THERE THEY ARE I BETTER GET OVER THERE oh no my ability ran out''.
When the Devs made her it wasn't there intention for us to use her Ambush at loops, we did that because we couldn't find any other use for it. When I sneak up on someone, I want to kill them, I don't want them to run away, and that's why I don't use Ambush but instead just stand back up and sometimes get a Gen grab. Also, if you're comfortable with a Killer not performing well under high pressure then that's good, but people who actually care about this character don't like that they are being screwed over by small decisions like this roar, it's ridiculous. It's like if you had a baby but your partner insisted on your baby having their right arm tied behind their back for their entire life, you're okay with it because they can get by with one arm. Everyone else who actually cares about that baby see that father as an ######### and wants to call CPS.
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I understand what you’re saying. But the reason is killer mains play killer; is that it is so much harder than survivor and we welcome the challenge. If you move the roar to the end, she’ll be overpowered. You’d basically get a free hit every time, as the survivor’s only defense is juking (which only works on bad killers) or sprint burst away. She’s easily the best 1st hit killer in the game, no need to make that easier. And I’m not sure what you mean by sneaking up on people at the gen, there is no roar for that.
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@IMhereRUN Yeah there's no roar if you just use Crouch but not the Ambush, I go into Crouch but when I get close I deactivate Crouch instead of using Ambush, guarantee hit that way. Also I'll just have to agree to disagree on her roar change being overpowered, I would need to see it in action to change my mind on that. And I play on the PS4 atm so jukes are a real problem on the consoles :( I've been trying to get better but damn it's difficult to counter.
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I like the changes.
For the boxes addons you could also add that they come from the opposite direction. That would throw peoples timing off a little.
"Uncommon---Serrated Blade: The hidden blade has been replaced with a serrated edged blade allowing a much deeper cut. Successful Ambush attacks inflicts the Broken status effect for 30 seconds."
30 seconds is pretty meaningless. It will be over before it can matter. Maybe 60 seconds?
Idk broken just seems pretty lackluster in general as survivors don't heal any way.
I think her blindness effect addons and from perks should be changed to affect her boxes as well.
Lastly, one of the really big issues for Pig you didn't mention was raising her crouch view point. It is just way too low and doesn't match her actual height. She should be able to see over grass. How low it currently is, is extremely limiting.
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My personal opinions only:
Faulty Trigger - I think it should apply to all RBTs, personally. Or maybe even all RBTs once at least one generator is done if you want to prevent too early a stall in the very beginning.
Secret Message - I like the concept behind the idea, but I think it would be better served as a way to prevent feel-bads for the Pig getting bad RNG rather than giving a Survivor a chance to weasel out of their trap (even at someone else's expense) if they get unlucky. Something like:
"When a Survivor removes a Reverse Bear Trap after searching two or less boxes, another random Survivor automatically gets a Reverse Bear Trap placed on. Traps placed by Secret Message do not trigger this effect."
Either that, or just reimburse Pig their trap.
Amanda's Secret - Interesting idea. I've always been worried about effectively allowing the Pig to see which boxes a Survivor has already worked on because it makes it easier for them to know which box they need to camp. Implementing the "inactive in Terror Radius" nerf from before does help. That being said, I wonder if that would be enough.
Rusty Attachments - Still pointless thanks to Sloppy Butcher, so I don't see the purpose.
Interlocking Razors - I assume this is similar to the Doctor's ability. Not sure if it would be worth it if people can still reliably hit those Skill Checks.
Serrated Blade - My problem with this is that this would almost for sure not last long enough to ever be relevant. In a best-case scenario, you hit them with the Ambush, very quickly knock them down after that, hook them, they get unhooked, and if you are very lucky, they'll still be Broken for a few seconds? I think if you want to make this work, you are better off raising the time on broken by a lot and then upping the rarity to Rare.
Combat Straps - As long as you don't overdo it for a common this should be good.
Shattered Syringe - See above.
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"If you move the roar to the end, she’ll be overpowered."
I do not buy that. At best, it would make it so the Pig doesn't have to stand up to attack every time she wants to sneak up on someone working on a gen. I think you overestimate how good the Ambush is at mindgaming loops and jungle gyms, especially considering that's about all it can do. It's doable sometimes, but it's not this supremely reliable mindgame that trips even the most competent people up consistently. I don't think she's "plenty strong" as you put it; I think she is one of the weakest killers in the game (and the recent nerf to her only made her weaker).
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I love the secret message add on, it feels more like the make your choice aspect of the franchise in that if you want to escape, you often have to be selfish and let another take the fall, as was the case with Amanda herself and the original bear trap. But maybe so that it’s isn’t totally random and could make the wearer feel worse about their decision, the choice could activate once rescued and the RBT could transfer to whoever rescued them. Would also maybe deter people from rescuing
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I like your addons cause really relates to the character.
It be intresting if she also on top of this have a wish for a broken key add-on that made you have to find two halves of a key in jigsaw boxes.
As a pig and amanda lover thank you and keep up the good work.
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I used to think that would be a good idea for an add-on until I realized that it means that if the Survivor doesn't find a key piece in either box, they are guaranteed to die if the Pig chooses to camp either of the remaining two boxes. It's like the 50% chance to just die for Amanda's Letter, only if you still had the full four traps.
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@TAG When I made Rusty Attachments I was thinking about how stupid the perk Sloppy was split into two add-ons so if you wanted the effect but not the perk you could use 1 single add-on for it and it would free up a perk slot for you. I was debating putting it on Ambush but decided not to because I find a lot of idiots heal before trying to take their trap off, even when it's on.
I made Faulty Trigger for the first RBT only to go with the Devs idea of not having one turn on during the Collapse. I personally don't like that design choice, yeah fair is fair but you're also trying to kill people so it shouldn't matter too much, let their head blow up if they get caught. But I made it the first RBT in case the Devs see this page and like the idea, maybe it'll get implemented but I completely agree with your version.
I made Serrated Blade 30 seconds with the idea that you'd let that Survivor go to get another but I see that I shouldn't force that playstyle on players, everyone has their own strategies, I'll change it. I'm also changing Secret Message as well, that's a real problem for Pig and I wanted this thread to be purely about fixing things lol
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Rusty Attachment - I guess the bigger problem is that I think Sloppy Butcher invalidates a significant number of Killer add-ons. Almost anything that inflicts either Hemorrhaging (which isn't great to begin with IMO) or Mangled is made pointless due to Sloppy Butcher. Like, why bother having to use a Killer's gimmick to inflict either one when Sloppy Butcher lets you do it just by hitting them? BEYOND THAT, I do think Rusty Attachment is the only one of those RBT penalty add-ons that is slightly worth using in a vacuum. I think Hemorrhaging adds nothing to it, though. I think if you wanted to actually fuse two of her penalty add-ons together to make one MAYBE worth using, it would be Rusty Attachments and Slow-Release Toxin. That way, Mangled can slow them down from searching boxes and Exhausted can screw them up in a chase, and it would not be made entirely pointless by Sloppy Butcher.
Faulty Trigger - I hate that nerf, so I would do one of two things:
a) Throw that nerf in the garbage and pause the EGC timer whenever someone was wearing a Trap.
b) Write it out as "Reverse Bear Traps automatically activate as long as the Exit Gates aren't powered." I would not like this as a solution, but if we must play around the bad nerf.
Serrated Blade - I think the problem is that Pig already has the means to do the "catch and release" tactic using her RBTs. Find someone at a box, smack them, and scare them away to waste time. She doesn't really get anything out of doing the same with her Ambush. If anything, making them broken might be oddly counterproductive for the Pig because it prevents a Survivor from making the unwise decision to heal with an active Trap on.
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@TAG I like option A with Faulty Trigger, pausing the Endgame timer with the trap makes much more sense because the Devs want that fairness so give Pig players their RBT and the Endgame by pausing one timer in favor for another.
What would you suggest for an add-on for her Ambush? I really like the idea of her hidden blade effecting Survivors somehow, the RBT are awesome of course and allow for stronger effects but i know the Ambush could do more if we let it.
I like your Rusty attachment idea, I had thought of doing that at first but decided against it because I thought it could be too much.
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1) Hindered, maybe?
"Serrated Blade
Extra jaggy edges allow your blade to tear through calves and thighs with ease. A successful Ambush attack inflicts the Hindered status effect for X seconds."
2) IMO, every RBT penalty add-on sucks except for Rusty Attachments, and that is made pointless by Sloppy Butcher. Honestly, I'm not even sure combining all of them into one giant Franken-add-on would be OP. Alternatively, you could also just throw all those add-ons away and give the Exhausted status effect to an add-on affecting the Ambush. Or have both the Exhaustion for Ambush add-on and the add-on that gives a Trapped Survivor Mangled and Exhaustion.
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Perhaps when she was released as a killer the intention was to ambush gens, but as HatCreature mentioned, most of us would rather uncrouch and go for the grab attempt. And I don’t overestimate her ambush to counter loops and gyms...you apply the same mindgame reads as other killers, but you cover that ground much more quickly. No, it won’t be a guaranteed hit, but if you make the wrong read the survivor is likely to not abandon this loop. A great survivor might make you make the wrong read twice, but I think only a real crappy killer needs notebook than 3 attempts. Either way, that segment of their loop play is limited to 10-25 seconds tops. We’ll worth it you ask me. I can make a video ifvyou’d Like if never using this technique, I promise no one will survivor that loop more than 3x. Only s long loop (too much distance to transverse with the ambush once you gained control of pallet) can survive this.
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"as HatCreature mentioned, most of us would rather uncrouch and go for the grab attempt"
That's because the ambush is worse at getting the hit in due to the roar telegraphing your attack. Not just in sneaks, but in general.
"you apply the same mindgame reads as other killers, but you cover that ground much more quickly"
So it's relevant at the same mindgame-able spots that your typical M1 killer can mimdgame, and the upside of it being faster is negated by the downside of a telegraphed charge up. That does not sound good to me.
"No, it won’t be a guaranteed hit, but if you make the wrong read the survivor is likely to not abandon this loop."
Is that supposed to be not a bad thing? If you make the wrong read, you will have given the Survivor more leeway at that loop than if you had just chased them until they dropped the pallet.
"A great survivor might make you make the wrong read twice"
Making the wrong read even once is bound to cost you valuable time that you do not have, not even with Reverse Bear Traps already on people.
"I think only a real crappy killer needs notebook than 3 attempts"
See above.
"Either way, that segment of their loop play is limited to 10-25 seconds tops."
That's IF you successfully mindgame the Survivor, which I do not believe to be as consistent/reliable as you are making it out to be, especially compared to typical mindgaming around those spots.
"We’ll worth it you ask me. I can make a video ifvyou’d Like if never using this technique, I promise no one will survivor that loop more than 3x."
If you want to make the video, go ahead, but just know that 3x already means you wasted way too much time at that one loop.
"Only s long loop (too much distance to transverse with the ambush once you gained control of pallet) can survive this."
It sounds like what you are telling me is that good/safe loops are safe from this mimdgame and bad/unsafe loops are not safe. That is not reassuring.
When the only thing a power is good for is mindgaming at the same places an M1 killer can already mindgame at, that is a sign that the power is pretty bad.
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