What is a "win" to you?
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As a killer getting 25k points + all my bbq stacks. Dont care if the survivors escape or not i just want my time to be worth it.
Same goes for when i play survivor. I dont care if i live or die. If i can get all of my WGLF stacks + 20k - 25k points i am happy.
Points are all that matter to me. I will be pretty upset if i dont get enough points to make my time worth it.
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Wrecking a 4 man SWF sweat fest then ignoring them in post game chat for a good 5 minutes while they rage, then simply say.
'k'
And close the lobby.
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Adrenaline is broken aswell nowadays? Come on lad lol
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"those perks are broken when multiple survivors have them together in the trial". As in, when survivor A has MoM, Adrenaline, etc., and survivor B has MoM, Adrenaline, etc., and so forth.
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Competitively, at least one pip.
Casually, successfuly having fun. It's harder the higher you climb.
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@Weederick blood warden tho
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Fun
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Ok everyone who's saying that winning is "having fun" or "playing well" or whatever. That may sound great and all but inevitably makes absolutely no sense as a wincondition. Like try applying that logic to other games.
In league of legends if I have fun then did I win? If so then does having more fun than the other team mean I should get the prize money from a tournament even if they destroyed our base every time? If so then clearly all of these tournaments are doing it wrong and everyone is lying/wrong about their win/loss records. If not then dead by daylight wouldn't be any different. And if "that's different" then prove it.
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As a survivor: being in a scenario in which whatever stupid meme build I'm using actually does what it's supposed to do (even if I still end up dying)
As a killer: Getting t-bagged for less than 100 crouches
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We aren’t in a tournament.
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2 Kills as Killer or a Pip as Survivor. Anything more is just gravy points. I know the games says I didn’t “win” as Killer with that, but I feel like I did. I killed half of them, I’m good. Might be because I still think along the lines of the old Killer pip system of “9 hooks to pip”.
Only time I feel I didn’t “win” as Killer with 2 kills is if I’m against some tea bagging flashlight spam clicking SWF bully squad. Then, it’s a 4K or nothing. Don’t be an ######### to me and I’m pretty nice and chill as a Killer. Be a jerk, I’ll be one right back to you.
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Besides the point. The point is that you can't use fun or effort to qualify wins.
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What rules inside the game saying that we can’t? The question was “what is a win to you?” We gave our answer.
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The part of the games tutorial specifying the wincons. Same as any other game
Do you make up wincons for other games? Would you disagree with someone who said that destroying the enemy base in league was the wincon for that game? Or draining the other players health bar in streetfighter. Win conditions in any competitive game (as opposed to a singleplayer, sandbox or cooperative game) are objective. In fact they are what make the game a competition in the first place.
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I lost in their eyes, I won in my eyes. Why is it so bad that people think they won if they had fun? No need to call people out over saying fun is a win for them.
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Survivor- Having fun. I want to be able to participate in various aspects. I want to have a chase, evade a chase, get a gen done, search a box or interact with the other players. Maybe I'm running my "Toys for tots" build (Plunder, Ace, We'll Make It, PTs) and all I want to do is search a couple boxes, rescue a survivor and give them the "toy". If I die, who cares? As long as it was fun and the killer was not a boring camper or tunneler.
Killer- I want to have some fun chases, see my build work a time or two; surprise survivors with a sneakily placed trap, or be lucky enough to get a fun and interactive group of survivors. Had one last month where two survivors were stuck in the basement, they both sat there pointing at each other. I hit the locker and one jumped in. I downed the other and the one in the locker jumped out and teabagged the fallen one. He hung around and pointed to the corner and teabagged roughly 10 times. So, I stood in the corner and counted to 10, then hunted them both down and made them slug race to the gate. The loser got hooked (my only kill that match). We had a good laugh In post game chat. That was fun.
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As a survivor I aim for the escape.
As killer I aim for the 4k*, but it really depends on the survivors.
If they are cool to play against and we are having a fun time (not farming) I am happy with stacking BBQ and let them escape.
If one is cool to play against or one survivor gets screwed over by his team, I let them escape if possible and punish the trolls and potatoes.
Often those nice survivors are solos and SWFs tend to be on the more toxic spectrum of players.
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That mindset is problematic whenever you go to have a discussion. Strength and balance both are in relation to winrate (or at least expected winrate) when discussed in video games.
For example if my wincondition is to kick every generator then my ability to win a chase is completely irrelevant. And if my wincon is to stop the generators from being completed (as survivor) then prove thyself suddenly becomes negative utility while bond is suddenly almost required.
If fun is the wincon then is Nurse really a strong Killer? I know a lot of people that say they don't enjoy playing as Nurse, does that mean she needs buffs?
And what about the Skill level of different players? Since again, in the context of a video game players who are better at optimizing their wincon are by definition better at the game. So does that mean someone who gets jumpstarted every 2 seconds and enjoys it despite always dying immediately is better at the game than a player who can consistently loop the Killer for 5 gens and never gets killed but is also getting board of the game? The first guy seems to be winning more often.
Don't we NOT want fun to be the sole metric for balancing Killers/Perks?
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Fun is subjective and I think she is fun. No one has claimed the “balance” and “fun” are the same things. Don’t act like anyone has said that.
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Of course not. If fun is a wincon then fun = OP due to winning too much.
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Nobody but you is claiming that “fun” and “balance” are the same thing. A win for you doesn’t mean a “official” win but a win in your eyes.
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A win to me is when both side's are messaging each other with gg and laughs no hostility just love for the game and respect for one an other regardless of how well either has played nothing says win to me personally 🐷❤️
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Winning is how you establish balance in a game.
If fun is winning then you can use substitution to establish that fun is how you establish balance in a game.
As in, the strongest Killer is the Killer who is best at achieving the Killer wincon. If the wincon is fun then by definition the strongest Killer is the Killer that is the most fun
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my win is on both sides if i get 1 pip .. i dont care then if i will survive or have the other people offered to the entity .. just as long i have the first pip.
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Read my comment again. You’re talking about the “official” win. This thread is about a win in your eyes.
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Ok well then in your eyes is Nurse the strongest Killer or not?
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Can you please stop? You are just being pedantic for the sake of it at this point. They understand that thats not an actual win, it's not a big deal, please just drop it.
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DBD Player on Scrabble: "Yeah, I know you won, but in my eyes, I also won because I had more seven letter words than you."
DBD Player on Chess: "You may have checkmated me, but I had fun taking your Queen, so doesn't that really make me the winner?"
DBD Player on Catan: "I don't care that you got to 10 Victory Points before I did, I had fun getting my Longest Road, therefore, from my perspective, I also won."
DBD Player on Poker: "You may have taken all of my chips, but who is really the winner? I mean, I'm the only one who had a Four-of-a-Kind during the whole playing session."
DBD Player on Werewolf: "The Villager Team may have wiped us out, but we did take out your Fortune Teller on the first turn, soooo who's really the winner?"
DBD Player on Whitehall Mystery: "Sure, you may have caught me in the end, but I had fun looping you the whole time, so surely that also makes me the winner."
DBD Player on Street Fighter 2: "But, really, my personal goal was to get as many throws as possible, and given that I accomplished that goal, doesn't that mean I win, at least from how I see it?
DBD Player on Rock, Paper, and Scissors: "Ok, you may have beaten my Scissors with your Rock, but given how we both had fun, doesn't that make us both winners in the end?"
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Most viable and most fun imo. But I’ll just stop here though.
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As killer 2k and up
As survivor it doing gens/unhooking etc. If I die 1st then I consider it a lost
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I agree with this. Just yesterday I lost a match in Mortal Kombat 11 to a Johnny Cage player. He did the stupidly hilarious “Deadly Uppercut Fail” fatality. It made me laugh so hard I didn’t feel like I lost. Fun can make even a “loss” seem like a “win” just because you had a good time.
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Yes thank you
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It's a semantical argument but the only way to truly win is by the official rules of a game. Really the question is what personal goals do you set out to achieve while playing. It's still semantics and I get the intent. I think ber reet just wanted to point out that the game clearly has a defined win because some people like to ignore it. I didn't really pay attention to my PIPs until recently.
I'm a competitive low tier alpha male so I usually play to win. Most people I play against seem to be of the same mind set. Occasionally people TRY to farm with me or encourage me to turn the game into a clown show but those are rare. Once I got to rank 12 this time around practically every PIP has been well earned. I've probably been doing 70% Trapper and then mostly Spirit when I get mad at him but I rarely get a game that doesn't feel competitive. I've only been playing on Fri and Sat with a few exceptions since rank reset but just getting to purple with him has been like playing on insane mode.
Seeking fun seems to be more of a survivor trait because the role leaves a little more leeway to be silly and still succeed. I always thought it was more fun personally, aside from getting tunneled and camped early on but I guess it's that low tier alpha male inside of me (um uh) that loves overcoming the abuse, and therefor I main killer. TO WIN!!!!
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Pipping is a win.
As survivor, pipping shows you did a lot of work that game. You need to do gens, make saves, run from the killer, and survive a certain amount of time or escape. It gets harder as you rank up.
As killer, pipping shows you did your job as killer. It is possible to pip without killing anyone, you just have to make the game last a really long time and make sure you get at least 1 hook on everyone.
Survivors that play only to escape or killers that only play for the 4k are fools honestly, because that is a very unrealistic goal to have all the time. Sometimes you will die as survivor, and you have no control over it. Sometimes survivors get away and you have no control over it. It happens, let it go, learn from your mistakes, and move on.
Pipping is also the only win condition the game considers. You can 4k and still depip, so would that really be a win? No, not really.
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Basically if I feel I played well that game. I don't have to get a bunch of kills if I had good chases and got my hooks in. Same as a survivor. I don't have to escape to be happy. If I did good I'm happy with the game. I do consider any time I get camped after a good chase an automatic win.
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Here is what the game itself has to say about winning:
Nowhere else in the entire game is the term "win" or "goal" ever used except to refer to escaping or Killing again.
And yes this tutorial has been updated recently. It includes mentions to things like the endgame collapse and hatch closing. So if the wincons had changed since this tutorial was made then the tutorial ought to have been changed to reflect that. Since they weren't that means the wincons are what is stated here.
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Getting a 4k and helping my teammates escape. Idc if i die lmao
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If I had fun, got enough Bloodpoints and generally 2-3 Kills is a great time for me.
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With Survivor: Ecaping or doing my absolute best.
With Killer: Basically just completeiing the objective I have in mind. In other words, if I want someone dead, that's all I need to be sated.
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For survivor its not getting slugged, tunneld, or camped.
For Killer, I view it as this: 0-1k is a loss, 2k is a tie, 3-4k is a win.
In the end its about having fun, which is why I like low ranks because I don't have too sweat out my a** just too get a safety pip.
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That isn’t the point of the thread. We know the official rule but we’re talking about victory in our eyes.
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If there is ever a disconnect between the 2 then that means we have a problem, since wincons dictate how the rest of the game is designed.
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When I actually manage to get all four stacks of my BBQ & chilli stacks without the survivors DCing on me.
Anything with more than 2k would be fine, but if the survivors were toxic then even a 4k would've pissed me off.
As a survivor its when I don't get catch first and I actually make up the bp lost from theitems and offerings that I brought into the match.
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Just stop feeding the troll, maybe he'll go away if we stop responding to him, and we can go back to having a fun, lighthearted discussion.
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As Survivor I win if I escape or help someone on my team escape, if everyone dies then I count that as a loss; major loss if I don't pip up.
As a Killer I count a minimum win as a 2 kill and domination as a 4k unless it was too easy.
If I get no kills but get a pip it feels weird, yeah I did enough to pip up but did it really matter? To me it means I need to get better. I hear in the Red ranks you can get a 4k and get a safety, if you're trying to pip I can see the absolute frustration and rage but if you don't care then it's still a win.
I'm not competitive so having that Red 1 next to my Killer doesn't entice me. I'm sure my mind will change though when they make it each Killer has their own Rank, then I'll 100% care about making sure all my Killers are at the same Rank, it wouldn't be for competitive reasons it would just be respect for my chosen and that I am indeed good with all of them.
Weird how that slight change kind of puts me into competitive mode.
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The fact that this game has a clear lack of what really constitutes as a win/loss helps contribute to why it is so poorly balanced.
Having fun is the goal of every single game. That doesn't detract from the fact games are competitive by nature. Even in Monopoly, you are playing to have fun, but you're always playing to win via bankrupting your opponents. Without a clear lack of achievable goals outside of the ones you set for yourself, a game truly has no purpose, and is less a game and is simply just "play."
DBD is less of a game and more along the lines of free form play. It doesn't have a clear enough foundation of what the specific goals of each side should do. The various responses people provide are evidence of this.
In other games, if you were to ask this same question, there isn't much room for debate as to what is a win/loss. Overwatch literally says Victory and Defeat. Fighting games blatantly tell you "You Lose" in big fat letters across the screen.
As far as a win condition, the closest thing you can get to in this game is a Pip. Pipping indicates that you did enough in the match for the game to grant you a point towards increases your Rank. While this is obviously absolutely meaningless at the moment, it's the closest win condition you have. A loss would be a pip down, and safety pipping is more like a draw.
Imo, BHVR should redefine their win/loss conditions.
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I'm not a troll. I don't do trolling. When I say something that isn't an obvious joke it's because I mean it.
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Also. I don't think everyone DOES know the official rule. Since when I made a thread about it I had a LOT of people trying to tell me that the screenshots I posted DESPITE BEING DIRECTLY FROM THE GAME ITSELF were wrong.
Hell even @weirdkid5 just now said that the game considers piping the wincon, despite the screenshots that show otherwise.
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Kills. This game is about killing and sacrifices and that's the fun in playing killer unfortunately almost all killers are dumb down low tier trash that are basically an an annoyance not a threat. Imagine the variety if all killers were being played if they got buffed but that's not going to happen because survivors want to have 'fun'
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Just here to play the game nowadays
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