Endgame Balance Idea
Add several seconds if only one survivor is left when the hatch is closed
When the hatch is closed a random chest will be re-closed (assuming they are all open, if not then ignore the close part) and then the chest will contain a key to open the hatch again.
The additional seconds idea coincides with the chest idea because it would take some time for a survivor to run around the map and find a chest to loot. I also like this idea because it removes the endgame penalty survivors get in which once a killer closes the hatch they can just sit and camp at the exit gates until time runs out because they know a survivor won't have enough time to open a gate when a killer is patrolling it.
Comments
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only thing I'll add to this idea is that the key cannot be brought out of the trial, even if unused. This way, a player cant use this method to farm keys and get out via exitgates.
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Well I don't think that would be a issue because the survivor is most likely going to need to use the key to escape. I don't think there would be a way for a survivor to farm a key and then open a gate.
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No.
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Yes.
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Yesn't
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I think endgame right now is in mostly right place (and yes, Killer main here). If survivor needs to rely on finding the hatch it means that 3 sacrifices's been made before final generator, so this is Killer winning and there's no real reason for the last survivor to have truly good chance at saving his ass. And right now this chance is quite high, he might already know where the hatch is or simply be lucky and find it before Killer does, and even if Killer is there first there is still a chance that Survivor will unlock the gate. Odds are reasonable.
That being said.
I find the idea itself quite interesting, but before I go any further I have to to say this: no extra seconds, no real reason + it would only boost last survivor chances at opening the gate instead of the hatch.
Now to all those who swiftly said "No" up there - look at all variables in this idea. Acquiring extra key would mostly be viable with Plunderer's or maybe only then, 'cause without it would be pure luck, which is fine. The key appears after the hatch is closed so finding the chest, opening it again and then moving to the hatch would actually be possible only if a survivor knew already where the hatch is. Finding this random chest and then finding closed hatch would be rather impossible with the clock ticking.
So what that would give us - finding and opening all chests would become more important for S team in order to be able to identify the happy chest later = slows early-mid game. Survivor would have to act fast, so scratchmarks would be rather mandatory. Meeting all the odds to perform this would be very hard - all chests opened + localizing the hatch + Plunderer's to see the right chest. Without even one of those conditions this mission would be really impossible. And making Plunderer's a more interesting perk is an advantage in itself given the state of current meta perks. So yeah, instead of bombing the idea on the spot, it would be sensible to think how it should work in details.
E.G. How about making it not a key but a special item, a lock-pick that would start a set of special, difficult skillchecks during opening of the hatch.
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I disagree on your statement that the endgame is in a right place because all it did was shift the power to the killers (before it was survivor side sort of since survivors could just sit on hatch before the endgame changes), I mostly figured the endgame should be equally balanced for both sides while still maintaining a competitive/fun aspect for the game. Unfortunately, the way I see it today is if the killer found the hatch first and closes it then it's almost a guaranteed win because then they could camp the gates. I guess you do have the counter to this by having a key at hand before the trial, but not everyone is going to bring a key in every trial (that is assuming they survive until the end). However, I do agree with your point about my idea being an impossible mission and that got me thinking of a couple of ideas so here it goes:
Once the endgame timer has started, the basement chest will have a guaranteed key. However, if the survivor holding the key disconnects or leaves via exit gate then the key is returned to the basement chest that will still be opened.
Another idea: Exit gates will have tremendously hard great skill checks (similar to DS and Overcharge) that once successfully hit they will boost the meter for opening the exit gate. However, if a skill check is failed there will be 0% granted and and it will notify the killer (similar to Hex: Ruin, just with a notification added).
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I agree with your idea to generate a key but you should aquire no extra seconds to do this. The timer as is ensures you commit to one strategy anticipating the killers decision. Will the killer shut the hatch then stand next to the farthest gate.
Will the killer be checking the doors then head to the hatch. Its a guess/prediction on the killers play. Having a third option being a basement key with the current timer means you have to commit to that stategy which imo balances the idea.
Also skill check based advantages can honestly go in the bin. Skill checks arent hard as they exist now. They provide no scaling difficulty and regardless of how small they make it survivours will hit it since skilll checks always operate the same way minus a doctor being in play.
The key should be temporary just in case someone finds a way to farm them. So it will drop or be consumed upon opening the door. Last thing we need is an influx of keys in this game as is the item is in a questionable state.
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So you're telling me that if a killer gets 3 kills they deserve an easy last kill? Cool, how about we add a mechanic where after all exits are open and all survivors are alive, the entity blocks the killer from camping near a hooked survivor and applies a free borrowed time to unhookee and unhooker. After all, after 4 still alive, it means survivors are winning and there's no real reason a killer should have a chance at securing a kill.
Lmao see how bullshit that sounds? A survivor should definitely still have a chance even after being the last alive. Right now, end game is heavily killer-sided. What we need is the timer to be slowed when the hatch is closed.
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@sailormars The thing is... you still have a chance when you are the last person... you truly don't have a chance when the killer starts chasing you.
Also, securing the kill... its not a scenario of survivors completely winning because one of them is on a hook and still... its possible to counterplay it with BT/adrenaline on a hooked survivor and MoM on a savior/other survivors taking hits.
And when it comes to the longer timer... no... it won't change anything for the last survivor, all we need is to fix gates spawn locations because sometimes its a bullshit when you can just watch both of them from one spot without even a slight movement.
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I like both the key or lockpick (from TerminalEntropy's post) idea. The current issue I've seen with the hatch is that getting the gate open can be hard for a survivor when the doors are next to each other on the same side of the map. Killers have more power in searching the map with faster movement speed, and they don't have to crouch to hide.
If the devs. do add this change, the hatch can still be hard to find because the survivor can't hear the hatch's sound if it's closed. I don't think this would be a big issue, and the devs. could always add a perk to improve this mechanic.
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I disagree on your statement that the endgame is in a right place because all it did was shift the power to the killers (before it was survivor side sort of since survivors could just sit on hatch before the endgame changes), I mostly figured the endgame should be equally balanced for both sides while still maintaining a competitive/fun aspect for the game. Unfortunately, the way I see it today is if the killer found the hatch first and closes it then it's almost a guaranteed win because then they could camp the gates.
Damn, I totally didn't plan on writing something this long, but it somehow happened. Although I think I nailed what was to be nailed, I hope that at least you @βLAKE will go through it :D
I can understand this perspective, especially when you go into the fog with solo attitude (which sadly current mechanic discourage greatly), but I can't share it. Thing is, it got rather set in stone of dbd culture that Killers performance is measured and judged by number of kills. When you are a sole survivor of trial you are the only who won while Killer with his 3 kills may feel triumphant as well, but the true goal is good, old "gonna catch them all". On the other hand if 4 survivors leaves while Killer has earned tons of points it won't count as a "draw". What I'm getting at is that with things being as they are, from Killer's perspective, nothing truly warrants providing a 50-50% chance on the occasion where 3 survivors got killed before powering up the gates. The odds should be in Killers favor while giving the last survivor a thrilling, rising blood pressure, chance at escaping, it's a horror game, not a race :) It got a bit obscured with all sprintbursts, adrenalines and loops, but that's still a fact. Plus the opposite situation would be - being last survivor when all others managed to escape which gives this last survivor a hatch and an already opened gate or two, I might have gone a bit too far here but it is really vital which side is winning at the time.
About the current state of matters, although finding the last survivor at the gate happens to me more often than him giving me the slip - the latter happens often enough to find balance quite ok, I feel that I have an advantage but can't be relaxed or I'll screw things up (unless I'm playing Trapper but it's privilege of his power to excel at 1v1 endgame). There is an option of mindgame, as a survivor you can actually decide to wait at the gate and let the Killer do all the searching, if you choose to do this there actually is a 50-50% chance for you, provided the gates are far enough = if the Killer choose wrong gate to check as the first you will run away. Moreover it's rather impossible to balance it any further with all, purely random variables that endgame consists of. Take a look, the distance of gates is one thing, second is whether there is a fast road to a clear view on the..handle? And third is hatch itself, it may spawn right next to one of the gates leaving 0 chances for the survivor or in the furthest corner giving him more time at the gate. Also take into consideration that nowadays endgame always gives last survivor the chance at escaping, even if any generator hasn't been finished. That's a fair change in Surv favor.
Now about you'r ideas. The first one - we are talking about the situation where one survivor is left in the game and gates are not powered up, so this mechanic of the key getting back to the chest seems to be unnecessary :D And about the variables that fixed key location introduces - they would ultimately get too hard for the Killer side. If survivor doesn't know where the hatch is that's where this should works quite fine, finding a closed one (meaning no sound clue) would be very difficult. Buf in scenario when he/she knows where it is the Killer is at a complete loss, 'cause it's a rare commodity to have the hatch close to the gate, and patrolling 2 gates sometimes is too easy, another time impossible without giving enough time to open one of them. Add third objective to care for and Killer is...well, caput. It would create a situation where Survivor would be able to assess the distance when the gates are shown and make a profitable decision, while Killer would always patrol the gates to prevent opening it. If a survivor would go for the key and knew where the hatch is - free escape. While not knowing the location would be almost sure death by the timer.
About the second, with skillchecks, I believe that something big (though I don't have any specific idea) would have to change in their mechanic. Simply putting difficult skillchecks would become muscle memory like the perks you mentioned, maybe with exception of Ruin.
You know, the more I think about it the more I believe that it's not exactly the endgame itself that requires changing but survivor's stealth options. Imo it's been long given up and forgotten in favor of chases, dynamic events and leaving repair speed as it is. If survivors had a reliable options at disappearing after being found, the endgame would be a bit less shifted toward Killer, just enough to be satisfactory for both sides I believe. Maybe the viable hotfix would be implementing few strong stealth perks that would come to life in case of being the last one standing. Right now the only such perk is the one that boots repair speed, if I remember correctly, was pretty useless, got totally so.
Post edited by Rizzo on0
