Let's compare The Legion to fake Legion (aka The Ghost Face)
NOTE! This is not an attempt to get Ghost Face nerfed even more, it is simply to highlight the utter nonsense of the Super Nerf that Legion got.
Why do the Devs HATE Legion so much? Let's look at their newest killer Ghost Face and compare.
Why do the devs hate Legion so much? @not_Queen can we get some answers?
AGAIN! Not trying to get other killers nerfed~!! HIGHLIGHTING HOW RIDICULOUS LEGION NERFS ARE!
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The "rework" of the Legion is ridiculous imo, but still, I fear the "Ghostface story" is not over yet. If they handle him on the same way as the Legion, he will be nerfed again after some months (and with nerfed I mean reworked on the Legion way^^).
But a honest and neutral answer to the Legion would be nice and that they change some things back. So aka. a answer that is built on the actual Legion-situation and not on the opinion of 1 or 2 whiny streamers and their audiences.
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i were legion only player before it completely changed but i accepted those changes
now legion is more skill relate killer and doesn't have to do moonwalk or use purple tape to kill or patrol someone
legion got buffed 4.6(115%) its most buff than any other nerfs you wrote
i thought its legit change, even koreans never dies by wm1 killers but still,
but addons nerfed blindly it almost not even helpful except red button and some effect duration of ability
current ghostface will be fine after bug fixes, they gonna do it so it also be nerf form
legion is fine right now but not a top tier with any addons and its problem
their addons became useless so i thinking they should buff legions addons at least
did you failed your ability hit? don't use ability like before use it like insta bloodrust
if you consider ability hit as buffed attack, legion have 115% normal speed wm1
that part is simple and strong
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I respect your opinion prettyf, but some of us have like to play a fast killer and to have a killer that is not the usually m1 killer. The Legion was a way out of it until the nerf... Sry... rework cough.
Besides that, I have the opinion that every killer should have the opportunity to be viable at red ranks by a at least the most part of their playerbase and not just 1 of 100 killer x players.
What that skill topic matters, so we understand it differently - I think.
In my opinion is Dead by Daylight more a ... "habitual game". What I mean is... You play a killer or survivor perk for a day, or a few days and you will be able to master this killer, or perk. There is not much room left for skill as I understand it, but please don't take that offensive. That's not what I wanted to say with it and I think also, that is a ->good<- part of DBD.
I just come from the old days of Starcraft: Broodwar and Counter Strike as it still was a mod and not a game in a store and I think guys from my age just see "skill" differently.
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The diference between GF and Legion is that they love GF but hate Legion, so, if they nerf GF, they are not going to nerf him to the ground like they did with Legion.
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i surprised you actually talking like skilled player and once skilled at other games you played before which really competetive one
well.. what i wrote was standard of us/eu or near server red play and streamers
they all looked 15-10rank of asia players to korean forum users
so we focused on how us people thinking and plays and watch some tierlists from us
and finally we started to use vpn to play in us server cause even with 170ping
(originally 170ping should be unplayable nomally) much easier to play and imfortantly "there no much nurse in us" were most reason
we called that going to land of opportunity so yeah.. actually what your thinking now
yep,thats not limit of skill but even with that difference
still skill gap is shallow as you told so thats why i can't play legion anymore
anyone adapted this game can face bully anyone using wm1,
but soon as dbd gets more famous recently retuners or fresh newguys and bp works
dropped massively of average here so i don't expect any long agro or good rescue other people
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i wrote some thanks for spotted actually talking like skilled player
but its gone with typo editing, what a shame.. bug in official forum
notice that we call north america is land of oppertunity and some of us even using vpn to play survivor in there with 170+ping and talking still much ezier to play than asia
also much less nurses, that means actually wm1 killers there can kill people right?
i think your standard is not limit.. yep, if you not near in korea
even i agree of shallow skill cap of this game, cause i always mentioned that
we all shocked even us red streamers looks 15ranky players like how that can be red
so i surprised and thanksful same time someone shows up thinking like koreans
what i found is hope now maybe not thats that but what this mean is
theres no much time to nerf nurse and buff wm1 killers
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i wrote some thanks for spotted actually talking like skilled player
but its gone with typo editing, what a shame.. bug in official forum
notice that we call north america is land of oppertunity and some of us even using vpn to play survivor in there with 170+ping and talking still much ezier to play than asia
also much less nurses, that means actually wm1 killers there can kill people right?
i think your standard is not limit.. yep, if you not near in korea
even i agree of shallow skill cap of this game, cause i always mentioned that
we all shocked even us red streamers looks 15ranky players like how that can be red
so i surprised and thanksful same time someone shows up thinking like koreans
what i found is hope now maybe not thats that but
theres no much time to nerf nurse
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@prettyf
Well, I had play against some "pro gamers" in Starcraft: Broodwar, that had play in the early days for real money, from my country :). Counter Strike was mostly for me just a distraction then I had play to many Starcraft.
Can't believe someone remembes still those games. Everytime I talk about those games, I feel like a grandpa with a walking stick :D. Well... salute to anyone who still remembers^^.
I wait for the day where I can come back to Dead by Daylight and that will be the day, where they hopefully take some of the changes back. I have still hope that logic wins over rage of the haters before the patch.
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GF does lose his power for 30 seconds with a missed swing as well, Legion's power can guarantee every survivor gets injured before you even start his/her first chase whereas GF has to sneak up on every individual survivor and stalk them at normal speed, while getting Legion's power off they are faster than GF, GF is countered by looking at him... with a third person camera, and Legion's power creates a time sink for healing whereas GF's power puts no gen pressure on survivors until they choose to leave for unhook.
These two killers aren't comparable since they are so different is what I am saying as it can be spun the other way around too. Legion does need quality of life changes like normal hits no longer reduce the power, the cooldown needs reduced, and the fatigue should allow you to move faster during it just slightly though.
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Why do you compare this two Killers in the First Place it's not even that they are Identical.
The Work differently from each other and that is Fine. Oh and you need to Stalk them for 5 Seconds not 4 except you take Addons. But Like I said, It would make more Sense to compare Michael and Ghost Face.
I know you don't like the Legion changes but get use to it, they never said that they won't Buff Legion afterwards, McLean said actually that he thinks that they could need a Buff after the Nerf goes Live. He just posted it on his Discord.
Time will tell If we get any Changes to them, but I think they keep an Eye out for your Legion.
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He has not really compare Ghostface with the Legion. He had compare the "update cycle".
And sorry, but "getting use to it" will change nothing. The situation around the Legion patch has shown, that logic not always matters.
1 or 2 angry Streamers and their audience have go rampage on the dbd team and ... They have do everything those guys wanted. Even far more as just nerf him. The Legion patch shows clearly a overreaction on the dev site. Almost as they were in panic.
So, what can we learn from that?
That writing thread after thread is the way to success. Even it is annoying, even it is exhausting... It is the way that works. The Legion patch is the best example for that and it is also our right, since many people have buy the Legion after the way, the Legion was adverstised and when we look how the Legion whas advertised, we see a fast moving killer, that can be a threat while he is in frenzy.
That is today not anymore the case. Indeed, as a survivor I would be happy now to meet a Legion in frenzy. I would not see that as a threat.
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i wrote some thanks for spotted actually talking like skilled player
but its gone with typo editing, what a shame.. bug in official forum
notice that we call north america is land of oppertunity and some of us even using vpn to play survivor in there with 170+ping and talking still much ezier to play than asia
also much less nurses, that means actually wm1 killers there can kill people right?
i think your standard is not limit.. yep, if you not near in korea
even i agree of shallow skill cap of this game, cause i always mentioned that
we all shocked even us red streamers looks 15ranky players like how that can be red
so i surprised and thanksful same time someone shows up thinking like koreans
what i found is hope now maybe not thats that but
theres no much time to nerf nurse
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The sad part is, that is all imaginable after the Legion patch, if just enough survivors are vocal in the forums.
Edit:
I don't think that your posting got delete. Sometimes when you are editing your posting, your posting get somehow blocked and you get a small message in your down-left screen that your posting needs first be checked by a moderator I think, or some other guy.
After some hours your posting will be back, after my experience. Because of that, I have stopped on this forums to edit my postings for typos ;) :). Better a posting with typos, as a no posting at all for hours^^.
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why calling fake legion ghostface i can call legion baby killers since they are brain dead killers xd now lets talk about the things you put
so theres a big different stop thinking that devs thinks that they hate legion but i will say legion is NOT A STEALTHY KILLER ghostface is it thats why hes good at have no tr but he as alot counter than legion
1,-you can hear him 8m
2.-you can detect him and destroy hes all power and you need to wait 30s to full it meanwhile legion power its just hit and run and make the game slow
3.- he cannot get rid off hes power on hes own meanwhile legion can
4.-gf can get rid off hes power if he fail or success the swing
so all the things that you said that legion have debuff you just saying that you want the old legion you must be 1 of those players that want ez games with frank mixtape i remember that stuff and it was broken right now legion its in a good position ppl think that devs destroyed them well its not because ppl like you playing the old legion are brain dead just like that just gid gud and thats it it will have some tweak and those are only going to be hes stun that will be reduced and thats it meanwhile you think that hes low tier and its not since there OTHER KILLERS hes a middle tier and if youre good you could even be a high tier with decent perks and addons they need to focus more on gf since ppl really dont want him to get nerf and if they nerf him he will take freddy place you need to wait like 1 or 2 years to have the tweaks that legion needs
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Well Tru3Lemon, when the Legion is braindead, then show me your rank 1 pre patch Legion screenshot.
But wait... I am sure you have now an "excusement" why that screenshot did not exist, right?
I just wait for the next insult...
The truth is, that every killer has more or less the same learning curve. So if you think that the Legion was braindead, then all the other killers are also...
Why we just don't use arguments like that and actual start to think about what other people say?
Tru3Lemon you even don't understand the Legion, or the Legion playerbase. You still think that every Legion pre patch has play with purple addons, or exploits, right? And that says already enough.
At this moment the Legion playerbase is divided into 2 camps:
1 camp which likes the actual changes and the second who wish to have the old Legion back. Mostly for FUN reasons. Did you get that? "Fun"... I am not sure.
Besides that, Nobu has not compare Ghostface with the Legion, he has compare Ghostface's update cycle, with the update cycle of the Legion. With that in mind it is absolutly not important how strong or weak Ghostface is, compared to the Legion (imo, the both can't be compared if we talk about abilites what we not do here).
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Well actually they Buffed him, just because he can't ignore Palettes everytime doesn't mean he is worse then Freddy. Maybe after his rework but not right now. I found it funny when People actually tell me that a Killer is worse then Freddy. I mean you can get a Free Hit on Survivor but Freddy need without Addons 7 Seconds to even Hit a Survivor, and they have the same Base Movementspeed.
But I get it you don't like these Changes and yes maybe they should just bound the timer on the terrorradius.
But you can't change it, they won't revert this change to the Legion.
Many People forget that Ghost Face didn't actually do these things in the Movie, he is a Stalker but a very impatient one. Like I said I wouldn't compare these two.
And yes it is very clear for me that Ghost Face got Buffed and Legion got Nerfed. But 115% Movementspeed is not a Nerf and a bigger Terrorradius is not a Nerf it's an adjustment eventually you like to play something similiar to 3 Gen Doc.
I even heard from a Hag Main that he/she doesn't enjoy her like in the good old days, just because they shrinked her Terrorradius. A bigger Terrorradius opens new Doors to play the Killer with other Perks, and If you want to have a smaller one take Monitor & abuse, you got there the same Terrorradius as before, if you are not in a Chase. This won't bring the old Legion back, but maybe you have then more Fun.
Just try new Ways out to play her/him, I mean we have enough Perks.
But I give you a Point Fatigue Duration is too long, even If I hate to admit they should revert this. Nurse even has a fast er Cooldown If she uses her Ports correctly.
But everything else in my Opinion it is okay. I would say would be the Fatigue Duration be faster, like 3 Seconds then I think he would be enjoyable for all People. It's not even a Big Buff, they could adjust the Addons again for it.
But hey, I like the Legion right now too. But that is just my Opinion.
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I am happy for everyone who likes the Legion now. Everybody should have fun in a game.
But what me matters and people that think similar to what I say... For us, they have nerfed him into hell.
Mostly not for gameplay reason, more because they nerfed for us the fun out of the Legion.
Imo, I would have like to see it more, that they had make a new killer, with the abilities of the Legion how she is today and let the old Legion how she is.
I also don't like to play the Legion with other perks as the Legion ones, because the Legion perks have support the old playstyle of the Legion. The perks Legion's use today are mostly Perks that are supporting m1 playstyles for obviously reasons and that is unfun for me.
When I like to play m1 killers, I would go straight to Meyers or Trapper, or maybe buying the Hag (I would have bought the Hag anyways, if the Legion patch had not force me to not log into dbd again).
What I have like to play was a fast, young adult (young adult at least in my country) killer, that could be also a threat with his sepcial abilitie, so that he is more as just another m1 killer.
And I have a strong believe, that the devs will maybe change the Legion back to the old state, after they have spent really some thoughts about what they have did to Legion.
After the Legion patch - everything is possible.
The Legion patch was a disaster - yes - but it shows also opportunity. Imo, everyone who is willing to put a patch like this out, will sooner or later maybe understand that he has make something wrong.
I for my part are not willing to give the devs up, yet.
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So many people still have no clue on how to play Legion.
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@gantes a lot of them do, and they still consider him bottom tier (this is especially clear in the purple-red ranks)
As some people mentioned earlier, the comparison picture is not 100% accurate but still shocking to me. I have posted this in a few other threads but I want BHVR to aknowledge the current issues with Legion.
Honestly, there are only slight changes needed and not a complete rework like some people imply. Here are the three that I believe would make him fun/viable again:
Shorten his cooldown - 3s sounds managable
Old vault speed back
Make DW bar go down while doing a gen - this is the biggest issue with DW right now as survivors just ignore it and do gens in your presence as you get looped by another one... That way FF would apply decent pressure while still being fair and managable for the survivors
That covers the core mechanics, the pin add-ons should also be applied by 1 hit as 60s duration is already kinda short because you need to catch and hang them first to benefit from it.
Pray to BHVR
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The only thing I agree with is the vault speed.
Cooldown is the way it is because his power isn't meant to be easy hit + easy down, it's meant to chain hits through as many survivors as possible.
DW shouldn't go down when you're nearby, period. You're not meant to stay near a survivor with DW unless you're chasing them, in which case it's not necessary for the bar to go down.
If Legion is bottom tier, which I don't think it's true, it's because of core game problems and not killer design. Legion is no worse than Trapper, or Doctor, or Bubba, or current Freddy. Those are the true bottom tiers. Legion is low mid at worst. There's nothing wrong with being mid tier in a balanced game, the problem is that DBD isn't a balanced game.
EDIT: also agree about the add-ons because his Pin addons are ######### atm
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This is why I say he is going to be the worst killer once Freddy gets is rework
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I see you still haven't fixed that list to be consistent in what is being compared
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And again. Your ghostface list is flat out wrong. His missed attacks DO knock him out of his power and his stalk is 5 seconds not 4 seconds.
You aren't comparing things that are comparable.
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