What people don’t realize about adding a second objective.
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Technically you can, killers like Spirit, nurse,billy and hag can deal with swf.
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They could keep adding new killers while buffing/reworking others. It’d be a slow process but these things take time.
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They would be viable, you’d just have to learn how to properly use them.
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If you actually did that (taking LF to R1 and forever camp everyone) in my proposed system you'd be deranked to R4 at most.
That way, your ineffective playstyle will forever be countered by people that know how to play the game, instead of allowing you to go all the way down to R10 (by reset) and R15 (by artificially deranking) and do the exact same trolling to people who DON'T know how to counter it.
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Really good SWF group is near unbeatable, you can defeat them but it's going to be because of their mistakes and incredible amount of work from your side. Luckily there are many really bad SWF groups (main reason why SWF hasn't been nerfed yet btw).
DBD isn't balanced around the idea of perfect cooperation. Even 4 good non SWF players can dominate easily if they luckily end up in the same match.
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You're right.
But - quoting a movie I don't remember - Continents drift away at a faster speed than DbD's killers' reworks.
I'm looking at you, Freddy.
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These killers can beat good swf, it requires no mistakes on the killers side though.
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Their reworks are slow, can’t help that too much though.
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Oh really, properly playing M1 killer hmm. It feels like it's pointless to argue with you if you think the likes of wraith or freddy are high rank viable. I'll leave you to your own universe in which all killers seem to be properly balance and can deal with best of what survivors have to offer.
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Chases with window vaulting, mindgaming around jungle gyms, finding mid-dash hiding spots, loss of line of sight and such, I consider fun.
Stupid Tom & Jerry running around waist high crap like mindless idiots, I find unfun AND dumb as hell.
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? They would be getting buffed/reworked to become viable, I never said they currently are.
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Wraith:
Try this - Coxcombed clapper + ghost soot or Bone clapper + ghost soot. Red rank viable, guaranteed. IF you know your angles.
Freddy:
No point discussing him right now, since he will be a completely different guy very soon.
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Lol you don't seem to get it. I can ruin people's experience and they have no way of getting away from me. If I do as I said now I'll derank to low ranks and they need to get better so that they can climb out up to rank 1. In your system I'll stay whenever I want since I have range of 5 ranks to derank. If I want to bully rank 15-20 I can with any killer any time since hty have seperate rank, and no one can force me out and I can still get 1-2 people even at rank 4 and ruin their experience forever. Bassicly I would be able to switch between ranks and play as toxic as I want without ever beiing punised.
Ranking system will still put people in rank 1 into my lobby and they they'll be forced to forever play against me. High ranks right now are supposed to be place where you won't see many hard campers and such who don't know any better since their playstyle is ineffective there. With your system even they can get there and never out ruining everyone's fun.
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Yeah because nothing is better for the game's health then addon reliant killers right.
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Then don't complain about low ranking having hard time against them. Games are supposed to be balanced around good players which right now isn't the case for most killers.
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If you hard camp as LF at R4 I guarantee you'll not get a single kill. They'll come at you loaded with instaheals, MoM's, DS's, DH's, and BT's left and right.
The only fun you'll be ruining is yours.
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But if low ranks aren’t having fun then they’ll quit. The game has to be balanced for everyone some how.
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What's the matter? You can always buy the stuff in the bloodweb, what else do you want to do with your bloodpoints?
Unless you're not earning enough of them, for all that hard camping as LF.
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Lol then why am I constantly getting people who run into my basement when I play troll build to derank in red ranks. It happens far more often then it should.
Don't underestimate even bad killers. It's very easy to kill 1 person if you camp with LF, sometimes you'll get even 2. I would know since that how it goes many times I play him to derank a little.
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The game is too basic to develop a balance. That's why the devs focus towards the noobs. Larger population. Easier to nerf everything down. Skilled players suffer the consequence of this, because you would have to break the game into something new to even the playing field between both. You have to separate or it's just a give and take.
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Same goes for high ranks but losing them is much worse since they are players who already got good and most likely spend a lot of money on DBD since many high rank players are veterans of DBD supporting it for a long time.
Losing low ranks means that they didn't have patience to get better and when you play DBD you need A LOT of patience so now big loss overall.
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@Condorloco_26 Yup, gotta back up this point.
I'm getting loads of Add-ons while just using 2 per match and, thanks to the devs' mentality of making Perk levels & Add-on tiers differ as little as possible, it hardly matters these days if you use an Uncommon or Very Rare Add-on.
The exception being the "special mechanic" Add-ons of course.
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Then we've just found the reason you'd be against rankings being locked. You like to derank.
I don't underestimate LF, I play him regularly.
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Bro I have all perks on all killers except GF. Last thing I need is BP. I have stocked more then 700 ebony mories over all killers. If I wanted easier games I would just start using addons and offerings.
You don't seem to get that killer power are supposed to be strong baseline and addons are supposed to be game changing fun way to make game feel more lively.
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Ofc since I don't play meta killers and I get soooo sick of gen rushing with weak killers. For the sake of my sanity of old school player I need to relax sometims not caring if I win or lose just to have some fun trolling around and deranking as side effect.
Your system doesn't solve the issue, it reinforces it since i dearank max to rank 10 then it's fine since players there are FUN to face most of the time. If your system would exist I would be forced to derank 3 times more then I do now.
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By all means, use them. Especially against the dreaded SWFs at red ranks. That's what I do if I see 4 guys popping at the same time, all carrying lunchboxes, I turn to Billy/Huntress/Spirit and use their most effective add-ons. Ebonies are reserved for Quad-dettes, though.
Addons will give variety to certain killers' powers, but there are others so basic that there's not much to tinker with. What else do you want to do with Trappers' traps? I even find the self-setting one a very dumb one.
Wraith has a lot of variety, he has aura reading, the windstorms ones, the movement and action speed ones, the silence ones. I just typed the combos that have best worked for me in the red ranks.
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If they got good then they aren’t constantly losing.
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You'd be locked in the red ranks, yes.
But that's why I proposed the "anti-genrush" solutions, strictly for the red ranks. If you managed to get there playing LF without trolling, means you're good enough. The "anti-genrush" system will allow LF be more viable in the red ranks. I don't see the problem.
Read that post, maybe that's why we seem to not be in the same frequency.
Edit: And I don't understand about R10 being so fun right after reset. I mean, R10 is populated by the R1s and R2s of the day before, so basically you're facing the same guys. Unless you wait for a week or something.
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And I just want to have enjoyable match with baseline killers that are not meta. Why should I go through all the frustration of facing good survivors with bad killers that I want to enjoy when it's so easy to buff them and make them viable baseline. You say that addons make killers like wraith balanced so it's ok to have them weak baseline but you didn't mention your opinion on strong killer using strong addons.
You think that prayer beads, omega blink nurse, instasaw billy are ok ?
Since by your logic addons these addons should be left alone since when bad killers are made viable by adddons then strong killers are supposed to be OP with strong addons right. Since making all killers good baseline and then making addons less impactfull would be a bad idea hmm ?
And what's worst is that even then even with best addons low tier killers still can't beat really good SWF groups. Addon reliant killers are extremely bad design and very strong addons need some serious drawbacks or to be counterable.
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Winning or losing really doesn't matter if the match wasn't fun. I've beated many tryhard SWF groups and got beaten by many. Problem is that even the wins were frustrating and unfun.
But balancing needs to happen around high ranks since that's where you end up by getting good. Low ranks need to git gud so that they become high ranks around which the game is supposed to be blanced to be fun.
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Fun matches with non-meta killers? That's why you'll rank them up individually.
"You think that prayer beads, omega blink nurse, instasaw billy are ok?"
Depends on what are you using them for. If you use them to level the playfield against 4man SWF with toolboxes or instaheals, yes, they're fine. (I'm not really familiar with omegablink since I play on PS4. To be honest, I don't even know what omegablink truely is. Some say it's the double range addons, some say it's the 5 blink addons)
Is 4man SWF fine? Well the same goes for them, if it's being used to troll noobs, it damn sucks. If it's to play the game at its highest level at R1, go ahead, bring your A-game.
If you brought your lowly Trapper all the way to the red ranks, you have a good understanding of the game already. Bring your bloody coils and trapper bags, and remember to equip NOED.
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Rank reset right now is mainly for players who didn't play for long time to not face right away best of the best and be discouraged or to have easier time after long break. Soon there will be rank rewars (probably) so it will have another reason then.
Anti gen rush just needs to happen for the sake of game itself, nobody besides toxic SWF groups like to have 6-8 min matches. And yes It would make LF more viable but the real question is what is more fun and easier to do.
To buff all killers to be high rank viable now or to change the core of the game to make current weak killers strong but not make current strong killers OP. I think it's more fun to rework/update weak killers and make some addon changes to strong killers and also that this would be much easier to do then reworking how gens work.
Gen rushung is just 1 of the issues like bad map desgin, looping beiing uncounterable, SWF over cooperation and such.
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And yeah, utopically all killers should be equally strong and viable.
I didn't design the game. And no one will re-design it from 0 to 10 at this point. Just look at how long has Freddy's rework taken.
They helped a lot then-trash tiers like Hag and Wraith with their quick fixes at least. Trapper isn't strong yet but isn't as weak as before. Doc and LF may be looked into for a quick fix too, in the near future. Clown is not very popular but I think he's a solid average killer.
I don't talk/care about Legion, so, whatever.
Plague has just been released, and GF is killing a lot of people right now.
There are options at least.
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Yes but if I recall you said they'll never go back down once they're rank 1 (lower then rank 4). So If I get them there I'll be stuck there forever and I'll get there very fast. Right now I can be wherever I feel like but if they were rank locker I wouldn't be able to face rank 1s unless I wanted to exclude myself from facing anyone else besides them. It's good to have freedom of choice.
As I said I'm not a psychic, I can't tell when I face SWF and not every medkit has instaheal and using best addons on players who just play casualy and got to rank 1 eventually doesn't feel right if you do it far too often.
I want to play any killer and have fun and good chance to win no matter what opponets I face. Having diversity is healthy for game such as DBD and right now constant spam of nurse/billy isn't fun for those playing them or those facing them(also you don't know how many people just dc when they hear omega blink nurse). There are 16 killers for god's sake. Let me play them on high ranks without having feeling to rip my hair out after some specific matches.
Rank 1 isn't about tryharding, it's for players who play a lot of DBD and are pretty good at it. Not gods not tryhards but people who have fun and manage to win more then lose.
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Freddy is taking so long since his power is flawed to the core. Most of the killers need just some number buffs and some other maybe 1 or 2 new mechanics mostly for mobility or so.
Problem is that devs are to afraid to try and will never make random PTB with weak killer buffs to see the outcome and then decide if those changes should be implemented or not.
All that needs to happen is for devs to finnally start at least trying to fix them but they rather say that "not all killer are supposed to be viable" bs.
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You're trying to tell me the game should be more considerate of long time veterans that took a break (and already know HOW to get good) than new players that are just learning the basics?
I mean, veteran players that took a break are getting discouraged facing the best players right away? What are they, chumps?
If new players are dying 90% of the time they simply won't keep playing, that's the sad truth and why this game won't ever be balanced around R1. All the kiddos picking up the game and buying the new characters and cosmetics will go away. That means there will be no game for anyone.
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I don't know then, maybe casual mode should be introduced, so if you're locked at R4 with any killer at least you can have the option to play them without caring about winning/losing.
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As I said right now ranking system is just to put people who play a lot of DBD and people who don't. It doesn't represent skill and never will since DBD has far to many chaotic elemets to accuretly represent players skill.
New players have their rank 20-16 which is only for them, once you pass it you aren't new anymore and have to start gitting gud. If they die 90% they let them go play killers and kill new survivors in 90% of their matches and enjoy all the fun killer have with DBD.
Also you think that some new kiddo will buy all the chaptes and many auric cells for skins like old school players did (myself included) ? I think not unless they have around 90 spare euros laying around.
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I'd love that. Pity it will most likely never happen.
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A secondary objective isn't really 100% required. They could do something like having entity blockers on several gens starting out, and have them unblock when you complete one of the unblocked gens. For example, on Lery's with the middle gen and two others being unblocked, this would allow the killer to patrol a bit easier early on. Once a gen is done, another is unblocked(or two). Killer wouldn't have 3 gens done before the first minute and survivors would have to sweat a bit more. Of course some perks that have base entity blockers on gens would have to be revisited, but I think this would be a nice way to handle gen rush without needing a secondary objective. Technically there already IS a secondary objective, it's just not required(totems).
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No, since they are already the strongest their standing won't change. and as for NOED you could do it where the speed boost is for the first objective, then the exposure is for the gens and that's when survivors know that it's active.
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@Pike_Trickfoot Nothing wrong with lurking. :)
In theory, you could do both. But why apply 2 things if 1 would to do the job? Also, as I wrote above, I think shortening chases (by changing maps or buffing the killer's power) is not a solution that will be good for the game.
If DbD's design would be changed to shorter chases, it would become more of gen-repair + hide & seek game. I'm sure the game would be less successful that way.
Other things contributed to DbD's success, sure, but the chases are unique and the most important factor why DbD is so popular. It's what makes DbD win against its competitors.
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Most people don’t find three,four or five gen strats fun, viability means nothing if we aren’t having fun.
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@DudeDelicious At some point, killers have to commit to a chase.
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@Condorloco_26 Agreed. Chases shouldn't be shorter, but they should require more skill/map awareness. Having to run the same circle 3 times is not exciting.
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@GrootDude You can't balance for bad and good players at the same time. Games are balanced for good players. And those players who aren't good have to practice to get better. That's just how games or even sports in general work.
Also, don't underestimate the current state of the game. Two days ago, playing solo surv at purple ranks, I got matched several times with yellow ranks. These guys weren't good loopers and went down pretty fast, but they knew already that they had to do gens as fast as possible. Nobody ragequitted, did a severe mistake like yolo saving or got downed next to another downed survivor. That was already enough to get the exit gates open every match.
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@Atrushan88 Cleansing totems doesn't take a lot of time. When I play SWF, usually one person is responsible for taking care of totems. It's not enough additional time for the killers to get their job done. Also, as you said, it's not an obligatory objective anyway.
I don't like the idea with the gen blockers. If the survivors could permanently only work at 3 gens before the others become accessible, you get those unfun 3-gen-scenarios that lead to 30-minute-and-more matches.
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@NoShinyPony I get what you’re saying, but something doesn’t quite sit well. I’m still trying to think of why. Maybe because if you changed both the maps and the killers, it doesn’t have to shorten chases? Especially since there are other factors like perks/additions can be made to help survivors/etc.... Like shorter chases can get compensation elsewhere within the game. I’m just putting stuff out there, not sure if it’s actually what I mean to explain.
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@NoShinyPony I mean there are ways that they could balance it to where the killer didn't have it super easy(separating at least one gen far enough away from the other two so that you could make progress as an example, though I'm sure there are other possibilities), and 3-4 people could still get on one gen, do it, and then one to two more gens would open up. You pretty much HAVE to do the middle gen in Lery's for example either way. Also with the 3 gen strat(if it came to this) that early in the game, it wouldn't matter. The killer would eventually be preoccupied with whoever he found and if he downed someone it'd be their first hook. It wouldn't be like at the end of the game where there are only 3 gens left and he can just protect them forever while people are on their last hook. If there are still 4 people in the match, one of the gens is gonna get done once he finds and starts chasing someone.
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@DudeDelicious That kind of gameplay means matches that can easily last 30 minutes and more. For the big majority of players, such gameplay is boring.
(Also, I still want to see how you beat a team of very good survivors with that tactic. Let me know when you upload something new to your channel. ^^ )
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