The solution to counter camping
Trying to save an ally while the killer is camping can be very difficult, but I might have a solution for this. If the unhook progression bar is at 50% or higher, the killer cannot perform the interrupt action. Most killer players will just stand there and wait for you to start unhooking so they can pull you right off your teammate, but this feature will completely counter this. Feedback would be much appreciated and I would also like to hear your idea of countering camping.
Comments
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Question 1: As a Killer how do I stop an unhook with this mechanic when I'm not camping (and thus am not already there for the initial 50%)?
Question 2: Whats to stop me from waiting anyways in order to time it perfectly when I AM camping (and thus AM there for the initial 50%)?
Question 3: What's to stop me from downing you anyways with Bubba's chainsaw.
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...The hook already works like that. It's a channel, you can only be grabbed during the channel. Once it's full, killer can not grab.
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1. Before the unhook progression reaches 50%
2. Survivors who are well organized and you'll still won't be able to perform the grab at the initial 50%.
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I think it's going to come down to an adjustment to killer rank progression. Something like a certain amount of points per sec drain if they're within a certain range of a hooked survivor. And possibly a deduction if you are tunneling a survivor within a certain time period. Make them extreme enough to not allow ranking up if it happens even a small amount, like two survivors or something. I hope something gets done because it seems to be getting worse and worse. When I started playing it was happening about a quarter of the time. Now it seems like 6 or 7 out of every ten matches. Has almost made me quit playing this game more than once.
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This will solve nothing.
Promote killers to leave the hook and go hunting, instead of more unnecessary camping related changes to punish them more.
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Forcing playstyle with rank is a bad idea.
For one, camping can serve a strategic purpose. It's not a one-size-fits-all thing where camping=camping and camping=bad. If someone on their first hook is about to go into second state and nobody has saved them yet, that's on the survivors. The killer shouldn't be punished for going back to the hook and making sure the survivor goes into second state.
But also, 4 solo survivors going into a trial without some combination of Borrowed Time/DS/Kindred is just asking for trouble.
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A killer who remains close to a hooked survivor is slowly drained of speed by the entity, which consumes without prejudice. How about a slight speed reduction for killers who camp, not enough to ruin their chances at a 4k but enough to dampen the rest of their game? If you're in an X amount of distance, you lose X% of speed. Maybe that would be enough to persuade campers to stop wasting time near a hooked survivor and apply adequate pressure on the map.
In reality, when I play survivor...tunneling is MUCH more of a problem than camping. Tunneling has been *extremely* problematic lately, it's like no one has the skill to 4k without tunneling anymore. 97% of my survivor games are nothing but tunneling, even when you explicitly try to distract and offer yourself as easy prey to help your fellow teammate get away. Tunneling needs to be punished in some sort of way, or at the very least make it to where survivors don't lose pips for being tunneled.
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Better way to counter camping:
Cut your losses, and do gens
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Camping killers are an easy win. I've been camped at first hook before now and got more points than the killer. It sucks if you get caught straight away but if people just ignore it the killer is going to be worse off.
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Just do gens and try to signal they're camping. If they truly deactivate their brain and hard camp with 5 gens up or something they're throwing away so much potential pressure and more often than not they can hope for 2 kills at absolute most.
And if they are ascended enough to do that AND complain about gen rush at the same time in end game chat please mock them as in that case they're a gigantic idiot.
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This is unnecessary as you can fake the grab and bait the swing. Assuming that you are dumb enough to feed a camper in the first place anyway.
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" it's like no one has the skill to 4k without tunneling anymore". Replace the word skill with time. It's insanely difficult to 4k against good survivors while keeping the fun factor high. Sad truth.
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Survivors will and always will rush the hook and force killers to stay therte, then call the killer a camper.
no, Ash just was hook rushing LUL
Not my fault if I stay there and I shouldnt be punished because your team is altruistic
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I wouldn't camp if you all weren't swarming the hook, but then I remembered.
Camping is when the killer is still on the map after hooking a survivor.
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I have a solution: git gud and don’t get caught.
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Every survivor player comes up with an original and game changing idea to punish campers when the only thing they have to do to escape the trial is complete generators and leave the hooked survivor to die. Incredible!
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Ok sure, but people need to stop suggesting second objectives then for survivors then as it nerfs this counter. Simple as that.
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With ruin,thana,Noed and against 4 solo survs, camping at 5 gen as a top tier killer is an easy win.
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@Karl_Childers We have talked about this argument of yours in several threads about second objectives. Camping is not a problem, just increase the hook phase time.
Edit: To clarify, the context is: The hook phase time should only be increased when a 2nd objective gets introduced. The hook phase time should NOT be increased at the current state of the game.
Post edited by NoShinyPony on0 -
If you increase the hook phase time without increasing the generator completion time, you take pressure off the survivors to do the rescue and they already have plenty of time as it is under the current 80s completion time 60s per phase system we have right now.
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They are not going to increase gen time or hook time.
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@FrenziedRoach We were talking about increasing the hook phase time when a 2nd objective gets implemented.
Not talking about increasing hook phase time at the current state of the game. Big difference.
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What's the point of the second objective if you're going to change or introduce a mechanic that puts the game exactly where it was before the second objective?
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@Orion Currently it's like this: If the killer just camps, the survivors will win the game if they are smart and do their objective.
It should stay that way when a 2nd objective gets introduced.
A 2nd objective for survivors is supposed to give the killer more time for chasing survivors, not for camping to become an efficient strategy.
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And yet, if you introduce the second objective and make it so the hook timer is proportionately longer, you end up right back where you started.
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Why should survivors do the second objective if doing said objective makes them die faster on the hook? It makes no damn sense.
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Watch then introduce the cankers; but bp; as a second objective.
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@Orion Only when it comes to camping. And that is fine. A camping killer will still lose the game.
But for those killers who don't camp and just need more time for their chases, a 2nd objective will make the game more balanced.
So, it's an improvement for the game.
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I feel killers may just start swinging at the rescuer and rescuee, instead of chancing an failed interrupt grab.
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One idea for countering camping could be: An metaphorical exchange of hostages. Bear with me, these ideas sometimes have a life their own.
Crazy (bad) idea, but we give the killer an ability,(Through a perk, or base game) that allows them to free the survivor. This is their hostage.
The survivors then have to give up their hostage. The gens.
Full idea: Killers can free a survivor from the hook and are unable to attack that one survivor for a certain amount of time. During this time, Gens are unable to be worked on....giving the killer more time to locate survivors and hopefully turn the tide. Perhaps too high risk though.
(Just realized this probably won't work against negating camping. Being that some killers will just sit there and wait till the very end to save you, and repeat process a lot.)
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Make killers confident they’d can probably get another down even with the doors open and no NOED. Camping would drop off overnight.
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@FrenziedRoach I don't understand. Why should a 2nd objective make survivors die faster on the hook? Where is the context?
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Given that vulturous survivors are the primary reason why killers camp, this will just make it worse for the hooked survivors.
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@Orion Survivors will learn quickly. And when somebody makes severe mistakes, then they are going to lose. That's just how every game goes.
Games need to be balanced around good plays, not around one team making big mistakes.
A 2nd objective for survivors would also not only help with balance, it would also bring a new impulse to the game. ^^
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It's been three years. They're not learning.
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Learn quickly / Survivors.
Pick one.
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@Orion @DocOctober Nah, have more confidence. Survivors learned to not heal, to just focus on gens and get healed by Adrenaline pretty quick after healing times got increased, for example. (I'm saying goodbye for today. I you want to continue this discussion, we have to do it another day.)
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DbD's history proves you wrong.
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We already talked about this again 771536284 times. Do generators rush if there is a camper, then see if you can take save and take hits. Bring Borrowed Time if this is a common problem for you. When will survivors realize they have the control to make the killer realize camping is not a viable technique in later ranks?
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@Redd I don't think so. Camping has become so integral to how new killers play. Camping is also used heavily as a way to grief others.
I do find it funny that campers are who really taught survivors to hit the gens and ignore the rest. You can sort of thank them for the gen rush everyone is frustrated with at higher ranks.
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@Andreyu44 maybe but you have to hit someone for thana to be useful and ruin? If you have been playing the game more than a year and can't hit great skill checks something is wrong. Ruin is a joke for good survivors. You would be better with sloppy butcher to keep thana in play.
Against top tier survivors even top tier killers are going to have serious issues camping if they play it right.
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think rewards, not punishment.
or do gens.
ez counter.
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Honestly being camped sucks but the best thing you could do is literally just hold that Killers attention for as long as possible and hope your teammate can get gens done.
If you don't care too much about your teammates and you just want to move over to the next match just finish yourself off
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Most survivors (or players for that matter - what we see here extends to all games) won't adapt when it comes to their points.
Greed is the most overwhelming motivator in this game that drives people's behaviors be it killer or survivor. The good players adapt and capitalize on that greed. The scrubs don't and continue to whine and complain about people not playing by their made-up rules.
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Please stop.
Stop trying to force your idea for how a Killer should play on every Killer.
You want to punish hook campers because you don't like it? Fine.
I hate when Survivors twerks on the other side of a pallet instead of running away. I'm supposed to be scary, after all. They should lose movement speed from tiring out their thigh muscles with all that twerking. It would encourage them to keep moving instead of happydance while seeing what I do.
See how silly that sounds? Just because you don't like a play style does not mean it has to be removed. There's already a punishment if a Killer hook camps; it allows the other Survivors to open chests, heal, and repair generators.
So no need to add in silly little mechanics.
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I don't know, but when I play killer I go out of my way to not camp and tunnel, and still get a 3 or 4k. Not having the time is a silly excuse IMO, because if you can only get kills by camping and tunneling...well, like we tell survivors: take your L. As killers, we're gonna win some and lose some. I take muuuuch more pride in my 4ks when I know I didn't tunnel one person relentlessly to ensure a kill. And in those games where I get outplayed (some SWF are soooo coordinated and good it's absurd), I take my loss and move on knowing that I gave it an honest shot.
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