Why is Looping a Big Deal?
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You are making many assumptions based on your opinion not actual facts, maybe the game without looping and all the toxic stuff I mentioned would be much bigger.
The DBD community is notoriously known for being toxic and not everybody is comfortable with being bullied.
What other video game can you think of where pvp could be as stressful as playing killer in dbd? I don't know any and I game online since dial up in 2002 with Ultima online.
With that said, I also agree on the fact that looping had to be killed when it started to become a thing and now some people would be annoyed by it, at the same time survivors need to understand that in a 4 vs 1 game NOBODY can be the hero and verse the power role or the game is unbalanced.
And I know this very well since I used the have a youtube channel ONLY on bullying and killing Jason on f13 and after playing dbd I realised how toxic I was.
Also, I specified that killers will be nerfed accordingly once looping is gone, once you remove the biggest source of unbalance you can certainly improve the game.
Also I never said you won't have chases in my version of the game, you would actually have shorter chases but ALL SURVIVORS will take a ride with the killer.
More chases for everyone rather than what could happen now when 1 survivor runs the killer 3-4 gens and the other just m1 the whole match.
It is a win win for everybody but the Loopy Loopers who cannot accept their toy being taken away like it should.
Regardless though, I am sure nothing of this would happen because the company is scared to upset survivors, so dream on
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Spirit and hag are unloopable if they use their power right.
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I suppose you have proof?
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Yes. The game itself.
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Removed pallet vacuum, DS,MoM,healing and Blendette nerfed. You’re lying to yourself if you think they only listen to one side.
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Welcome to the Fog! :)
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Every PVP game is toxic Call Of Duty games for example do you know how many times people threaten to boot you offline swat you ect in those games? What about Dark Souls pvp you get plenty of hatemail in dark souls as well. World Of Warcraft I used to be high rated in that game especially in Legion and sometimes you get people that will tell you to ######### and other stuff. This game is no different it will have a toxic community like all pvp games. I could go on and on about people being toxic in PVP games. I don't agree with people that are toxic but you can't stop them either. The game you are envisioning wouldn't be Dead By Daylight at that point. Stealth would need to become viable because of the short chases. Plus Nerfing every killer to compensate for looping being gone would take so much time most killers wouldn't even have a power. How to fix Dead By Daylight in my opinion: Make all killers viable, Fix the genrush issue by adding a second objective rework maps because map design is a current issue make more pallets unsafe and mindgamable
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Well, devs have said that certain maps will be getting reworks, Badham is the first with the Freddy Rework. So Haddonfield will hopefully be on that list.
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Picture this:
You start the match, hungry for a win.
Your Hex: Ruin, designed to buy you match time, is destroyed about 20 seconds into the game, you've just completely lost one of your perk slots.
You find a survivor, immediately, they run to a pallet, the looping begins. This survivor knows how many loops they can do before they are forced to drop the pallet.
They drop the pallet, you cannot mindgame them, as the majority of pallets are safe, you are forced to destroy the pallet.
The same survivor, knows exactly where the next pallet is, and the cycle continues.
You land a hit, things are getting tough for the survivor, one shot and they go down. 2 generators have already been done, which means if the survivors have split up; the last 3 will complete at roughly the same time.
The survivor your chasing knows that on most maps there are 2 locations that have VERY safe loops, the killer shack and another specific part of the map (E.g. the asylum).
If you ignore this survivor, you have just accomplished nothing. That survivor knows you have given up and will heal, before finding a generator.
Before you know it, all the generators are completed and there's a survivor at each of the exit gates.
Welcome, to red rank games.
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I played WoW for years and it isn't comparable to DBD, the amount of hatred and disrespect between killers and survivors, the amount of mean behaviours just to be mean is absolutely disgusting in dbd. What the hell is wrong with people to bring mori, camp and tunnel or gen rush during an event , an occasion to celebrate? it's pure madness.
With that said, your solution would be ok for me, not ideal but ok.
As long as we address the single most important problem of DBD which is the disparity of power between a killer and a single survivor due to looping I can accept that.
I would do it my way because looping was never intended to be part of the game, the game was designed with lots of pallets for survivors to try and reach the next pallet in a desperate run against time.
It was never meant to fell safe, it was never meant to have survivors exploiting their smaller hitboxes to counter the killer's higher speed.
And you can see the desperation of the devs regarding looping: They reworked some parts of the maps, they added entity vault blocks, they added bloodlust, they made killers SPECIFICALLY designed to desperately stop looping.
Clown, spirit, legion and plague were all designed with the specific goal of stopping looping, they even added perks against looping because everyone but the Loopy Loopers realise how much of a problem looping is in DBD.
If all chases are shorter, less than a minute let's say but you cannot die on the first hook and you have a tunnelling limited immunity, the games will not be shorter than now.
I have a match on my channel at rank 10 which ends in 3.35 minutes... how is that ok? one survivors looped the killer and we all just did gens.
And we can adjust the length of the gens, add second objectives, there are plenty of things that can be done, but the priority is to try and give everybody a good time while playing dbd.
With that said, it is way more possible that things will go the direction that you are envisioning because what I would like would create a massive dung storm which I don't think bhvr is ready to take.
One thing for certain is that, they will be SO careful in their next games to avoid the equivalent of looping and if it does happen I am fully sure they will kill it right away, in a similar way the killed mom before it became too much of an issue
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Hey, everyone pretty much already said what should be said on how counterable/strong is looping. You'll notice it yourself as you climb the ranks.
I'd just like to add that I find it in no way toxic; it's just playing optimally as survivor, the same way it can be optimal to tunnel or camp as killer (most of the time it's not though).
The things I consider toxic are teabagging, flashlight clicking, hitting a hooked survivor etc. Generally BMing.
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This has to be bait.
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XDDDDD
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At it's core, I find that the issue is effort expended for each side to work the loops is seriously unequal. And it's mostly because of the issue of Navigation and Movement between the two.
Killers are locked into first person view and have to turn in order to see where they are going. As a result, they don't have as much awareness and perspective as the survivor and they find corners harder to navigate.
Survivors have the advantage of the 3rd person camera which allows them to see around corners hidden. This also have the ability to 180 in directions effortlessly.
When you couple this advantage with other mechanics such as the survivor's ability to know the killer is coming from around corners due to the red stain, and the fact they have the movement advantage when navigating windows and pallets, it's a recipe for frustration for the killer.
The good killer’s know how to nullify some of these advantages by turning and back pedaling in such a way to hide the red-stain – but this only works in the low-visibility loops that have high walls and such, and this is where shorter killers like Freddy, Hag, or Pig gain a few options while taller killers like Trapper, Huntress, or Plague gain a few disadvantages.
But – doing the above mind-games with the stain expends more effort on the part of the killer player to perform than it does for the survivor to counter it if the skill levels of both players are equal. Which feels outright BS when you consider that the killer is supposed to be the power role. Here you are, this unstoppable force of evil – and you’re defeated by something as simple as a loop.
I don’t blame survivors who loop though, hell I do it myself. You can’t expect somebody to play by your standards, you can only work with what the game hands you. And to the dev’s credit, they are working (slowly) toward addressing the issue by shortening the safer loops and making more and more of them mind-gamable. It’s far from perfect, but we are in a way better situation than we were 3 years ago.
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Looping was as someone has already mentioned, an exploit which instead of being fixed was made a core gameplay feature, because there is a double-standard applied when weighing feedback based on whether it comes from survivors or killers.
It's also how pallets became major facilitators for looping, when they were originally meant to give survivors space to hide and escape the chase, not indefinitely stall the killer until the gates are powered.
You can't blame a person for using whatever the game gives them to win. It's up to the devs to make sure that the game overall is fair and fun for everybody. However, survivors are not bystanders when it comes to pallets and looping, among other things: they have actively lobbied for one particular playstyle which they have refused to allow to be changed for 3 years now.
Every time something happens that would affect that playstyle, something else is introduced or changed to replace it in effect.
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Because for the vast majority of killers they have zero counter play if the survivors aren't bad.
If the survivors know how to loop you are just SoL. Even if you completely waste 2 full perk slots using Enduring/Spirit Fury that only makes it SLIGHTLY less painful, but you are still getting screwed by it.
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I thin it's pretty funny how the devs do everything for one side...
Looping was clearly an exploit, due to hitboxes and the mechanic itself. Instead of fixing hitboxes they start build the game around looping.
Let's look what happens on the other side.
- survs cry about camping= bt comes
- survs cry about tunneling= DS comes
- survs cry about enduring= enduring nerf...
This is kinda...
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Don't forget the meta right now is no heal so of course, the devs have to nerf thanatophobia
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there are lots of words from both side supporting and hating the other side, saying nerf that or its cool as it is. looping needs skill, tunneling needs skill.(with a lil mess up from the survivors)
I say look at the proof. there are videos online showing killers doing tunneling which killers adapted and other videos showing survivors looping for 4-5 genes which they also adapted.
HOWEVER there is 1 killer and it can do just so much tunneling while there are 4 survivors and entity have mercy if 3-4 of them know how to loop or are in a squad and have communication cause then they are unbeatable.
i also speak from rank 9 to 1. other ranks don't do it as good or it's rare.
*i also play on both sides so i know the pain and the glory of it*
also i play on pc, don't know about consoles or how advanced the players are.
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You are exactly right, pallets were designed ONLY to buy the survivors some time BUT then they started to exploit them and looping became meta.
No matter how survivors slice it, no one has ever been able to explain why a survivor 1/4 of a 4 people team should feel entitled to be able to verse the killer (single element of the other team) in 1 vs 1.
They cannot answer to this dilemma because this unmasks, once and for all, the great scam on killers that looping is, and the main source of unbalance in DBD.
Look how desperate the Devs are when making killers and perks:
clown: made to stop looping and brought bamboozle, made to block infinites
Spirit: so you can counter looping very well and brought spirit fury to combine with enduring so you can get a hit
Legion: originally designed to be unloopable since he could move as a survivor and subsequently nerfed to the ground and sacrificed to the alter of the god survivor
Plague: originally designed to destroy loops with corrupt purge, and subsequently destroyed by the no heal strategy which literally strips her of her best power.
Looping is the demise and the desperation of the dev team and they are DESPERATELY trying to address it BUT it is too late.
This beast had to be slain once it was born, now it is too late
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wow i never looked at it that way. u are right all the recent killers have been focusing on pallets.
(except ghost face, but even with him i can tunnel easily which others are harder)
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Lol, I don't know if you are trolling or if you really are just a day 1 noob (at the time of your posting). So I'll reply to both just in case. If you really are a noob then you haven't even seen proper looping yet. Rank 20 - 15 survivors are frankly a joke. They have absolutely no idea how to deal with the killer. They certainly don't know how to loop properly. So if you think it's as easy as "fake em out" then you are just ignorant. Come back in a few months once you've made it to the red ranks as a killer and tell us all again how looping is a non-issue. If you are trolling then I tip my hat to you. Well played.
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he did say its genuine but i agree
to understand the game u have to be playing it for like at least a month.
the first week your just learning the basics. the mapping, the locations, the effects, etc.
to find the problem you must spend time on it, besides your trying at least.
we strongly suggest you keep playing ooor play a custom match with someone who knows how to loop then you will experience first hand what it is all about.
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@Pierpalle This post is so full of misinformation.
"Hillbilly eats pallets if good" First of all, this is true for all killers. Respecting pallets is bad game play in general for a killer. Secondly, eating a pallet doesn't mean you didn't get looped in the first place.
"spirit: and her crazy mind games" Mind games work both ways. And her power as a decent cooldown so you can be looped between cooldowns.
"hag: set traps, forcing you to leave the loop." Dude, if you are putting down traps as you are being looped then you are playing hag wrong. Yes, it can break a loop, but you also give the survivor time to run to the next loop and you didn't take care of the pallet so that can bit you later. The idea with hag is to place your traps BEFORE you are in a chase so you can end the chase fast. But at least you are right in the sense that if you are being looped as hag then you are playing her wrong.
Trapper: same as hag." Everything I said about hag, but x10. You can only carry a couple of traps even with add ons. And if you are dropping traps in a chase as The Trapper to break a loop then you are severely misplaying this killer.
"Pig: dash attack if used properly forces you to leave the loop." This does work for some loops, but there are many loops that this is ineffective and will only waste more of your time attempting.
"plague: vomits at distance+ red vomit so loopable only if you are in a tall loop." Red vomit it is a bad idea to try looping Plague unless there are tall objects, but green vomit (which is the majority of the game) looping is still 100% doable. Sure eventually you'll get broken, but you will have wasted a lot of the killers time and for her to put you in the dying state she still has to land a basic attack. Basically, 90% of the game Plague is loopable.
"huntress: throws hatchets, unloopable." This really isn't true. Sure, there are some objects that you can't loop huntress around, but there are many environmental objects that are high enough if the survivor ducks when the killer throws her hatchet she will miss. At the very least the killers skill can reduce looping, but huntress isn't immune.
"doctor: hardly loopable if good." Trying to shock the survivor just before they get to a pallet will backfire more often than not. Doctor is definitely loopable.
"clown: throws bottles, forces you to change loop or go into the toxic smoke which slows you down and you'll get hit." Clown bottles help with looping, but again he isn't immune to looping.
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What mindgames are there to be had with Spirit if you don't have Iron Will
I'm legit curious as a Spirit player
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I get where you're coming from, especially that you're new and see how easy low rank survivors can be, but I don't think people complain about looping itself (I believe, I'm not really a killer main myself). Abusing certain loops that can become infinites or just always using scummy loops in general are frustrating, but the survivors you're playing against most likely don't know those loops or they do them poorly. Plus, looping can be more than just turning around. At Shack, just turning around/doublebacking isn't enough sometimes. There's a reason a majority of people complain about some things (but yeah, I'm sure a fair share of both killer and survivors ######### about useless things as well).
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Looping, if done correctly, can keep a killer busy but you need to break the visual contact to prevent bloodlust giving a boost (something I'm rubbish at). As a killer, I've been in loops where the survivor has managed to loop me endlessly, until I got wise to the tactic and now give chase for a short time before walking away if I'm not going to catch them.
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Yes Gf is an exception, and I think he is an exception because he's a licensed character.
Still compare Gf and pig, Gf has one shot potential to the Nd chases faster, is fast to crouch and can hide the red stain in a chase. If used correctly it can still help you in a chase
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are you high? You send a video from idk 2k09? as an argument that looping is still a problem, while the devs already showed and explained their new map design and the reworks? I mean, pallet vacuum, faster/smoother vaults, exhaustion regresses while running, slower killer action speed, more pallets and im pretty sure, insta blinds too.
So dare you. Leave the forums for 5 minutes and shame on you!
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Welcome to a bad killer player. If you get looped you should be able (as red rank especially) to quickly identify if they are good - if they are trying to get your attention that makes it even more obvious. So you chase them since you see no one else until you break a pallet or two or get close enough to other gens to detect one is getting worked on, then you switch targets. But instead you are a sweaty killer thirsty for 'the win' out to prove no survivor can escape you - so you stupidly chase that one survivor getting led through all the pallets and when you do catch him, the gens are all done.
You don't follow one target like it is the only survivor on the map - destroy a couple pallets and find another, the next you might catch in dead zones, but you won't catch that good looper cause they already know which pallets they used. Basic killer 101. If all of them are good at looping as some killers claim they are matched against in every game (BS), then guess what - you aren't as good as you think you are.
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Ah yes, the "just switch targets" argument. Works great if all survivors in the match know how to loop decently.
I'd much rather have 3 people working on gens while I keep changing chases and applying no pressure than only 2 people and the hooked/savior busy. I like my gens being done faster.
Basic Killer 101.
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My point stands. You come back when you have a valid argument.
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The killer was bad and also it was Leatherface as well as the survivor being bad plus exhaustion wasn't nerfed at the time so they would have gone down way sooner so that clip is invalid.
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My point still stands your clip is outdated so come back when you have a valid argument.
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No, it doesn't. That survivor was terribad, yet they were able to keep the killer at bay for 5 gens. Try again :^D
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Imagine using an outdated clip and thinking your point “still stands”.
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As a red survivor, I only see bad killers getting looped because they so desperately want the initial hook from the first survivor seen. You don't do this. Ever. I looped a Legion for 4 gens last night and told them never chase for so long. You'll lose hard then come on here to complain about loops being unfair. Just go to another survivor.
Apply map pressure. You cant win with literally absent pressure. I've seen actual good killers who say "looping? ok, I'll be back to you since I've been chasing you for about a minute" and end up with at least a 3k because they go after EVERYONE. Not 1 person.
Stop acting like you're entitled an easy kill to every survivor you immediately see. Learn when to fall back when your tactics aren't working. Let every survivor know you exist, not just one.
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So you think it's acceptable that a survivor can 1v1 the killer in a 4v1 asymmetrical game?
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The killer was terribad as well Try again :D
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I think it's fair a survivor has the chance to survive and not instantly die and it's up to the killer if they want to keep wasting time on a single survivor or not. My deaths came from smart killers not ones who wanna tunnel then come here to complain they cant catch someone fast enough.
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Looping doesn't stop you from dying, it just delays your capture. I agree that a survivor should have a chance to survive, but looping isn't it. Looping is a quasi-exploit whose purpose is to take away all the mechanical advantages a killer has in a chase and render one survivor equal to one killer. That is why it needs to go.
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So you're saying the killer should have the clear and major advantage of a chase? So any chase is a L for the survivor. Cool. I'll have a lot of fun in red being chased and not being able to escape for very long because the killer is entitled to have my butt on a platter.
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It's kind of the point of an asymmetric multiplayer: the side with the numbers advantage should not also have the 1v1 advantage, that's broken. Your whole point rests on killers making the most of a bad situation, which isn't the topic of the thread: why killer-mains think it is a bad situation is.
It's demonstrably true that it is the case, hence why you had to talk about when it is sometimes better to change targets rather than tunnel, rather than why a survivor should be able to stall a killer for so long so easily.
When the game started, survivors had plenty of options and there was a diversity of playstyles. Then they found one that they liked and constantly demanded be supported at the expense of others, as well as killers.
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