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The Sad State of Survivor Balance

Jack11803
Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930
in General Discussions

Survivor balance is in a pickle, no ALL balance is in a pickle right now. Lots of people say looping, camping, etc. are really big problems...but why are t they being tackled.

Here’s why; SWF. SWF throws balance out the window, not only does it make survivors strong....but the main core problem......now 3 sides need to be balanced, but 2 are tied together. As it currently is,with states including SWF matches saying that survivors survive rate is 50%-ish...that’s really bad. As we know SWF is much stronger than solo, that means, by logic, that SWF has roughly a 70-80% survive rate, while solo has only about 30%.

How do we fix this? Well it’s near impossible. But the only way to fix this would be to make solo survivors have much more communication, and with the 3 sides becoming 2 again, be able to nerf survivors with out making solo queue a death sentence.

Comments

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Michael_Myers said:
    Played a swf team last night that looped and teabagged... after the game was over they were calling me noob, baby killer, and told me to kill myself. Like #########? It's just a game lol. Honestly made me feel sorry for them. Be kind people :)

    Yeah, that’s what I’m saying, that’s SWF is op, but if they need survivors, solo queue is screwed, so they need to, although it would break immersion, add considerably more communication in game so SWF and Solo queue can both be nerfed without solo queue becoming a rotting corpse.

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @ThePloopz said:
    Michael_Myers said:

    Played a swf team last night that looped and teabagged... after the game was over they were calling me noob, baby killer, and told me to kill myself. Like #########? It's just a game lol. Honestly made me feel sorry for them. Be kind people :)

    I find it weird when a full swf team insult the killers by calling them noobs because they’re playing the game in the easiest setting for survivors but then insult the killer even though the killer is playing in the hardest setting.

    I find the quoting system on this forum weird. Also; 100% this, I don’t get why either.

  • Michael_Myers
    Michael_Myers Member Posts: 104

    @HexRedWolf said:
    I had been legit sandbagged by a Jake that was apart of a 3 SWF team. I had a generator that was at 99% then Jake came hurtling right at me with Freddy high tailing him. Then Freddy puts me to sleep and then hooks me,. I died and was extremely pissed that I was the one who got Sandbagged. The others escaped the match easily, I was just the solo guy that was bait in the game.

    As a killer, if I see someone get sandbagged like that I'll tunnel the crap out of the one who did it. Gotta teach people to play nice lol

  • BUCKLEYbellows
    BUCKLEYbellows Member Posts: 7
    I also feel the ranking system/deliberate de-ranking is a big issues with this too. I self admit that I am a so-called “baby killer” and I go into a match as rank 20 with 4 rank 20 survivors who all loop, 360 and teabag me all over the place. They are clearly not rank 20. It frustrates me because there is no way for me to learn and improve as a killer against people like that. 
    Unfortunatley it happens a hell of a lot.
  • HD_Sporty
    HD_Sporty Member Posts: 2

    You sir, hit the problem right on the head. It's not killers, its not survs, it's SWF. I think they should either just outright delete swf or create a mode without it.

  • Azgard12
    Azgard12 Member Posts: 335

    I think the best solution to SWF is to give the killer bonuses against SWF teams. Maybe these could be built into perks or maybe they could be passive abilties.

  • ThePloopz
    ThePloopz Member Posts: 1,010
    edited May 2018
    HD_Sporty said:

    You sir, hit the problem right on the head. It's not killers, its not survs, it's SWF. I think they should either just outright delete swf or create a mode without it.

    They should never delete swf because that’d hurt the player base but it does need to be looked at in some way.
  • ThePloopz
    ThePloopz Member Posts: 1,010
    Azgard12 said:

    I think the best solution to SWF is to give the killer bonuses against SWF teams. Maybe these could be built into perks or maybe they could be passive abilties.

    See but does this only affect 4 man swf or all swf because it wouldn’t be fair to the solo players who just happened to get put in the match with a 2 man swf. Does this affect a 3 man swf teams because a 3 man is pretty strong as well but then again there’s that one solo player. It’s definitely a difficult thing to balance.
  • ThePloopz
    ThePloopz Member Posts: 1,010
    HexRedWolf said:

    @ThePloopz said:
    HexRedWolf said:

    I had been legit sandbagged by a Jake that was apart of a 3 SWF team. I had a generator that was at 99% then Jake came hurtling right at me with Freddy high tailing him. Then Freddy puts me to sleep and then hooks me,. I died and was extremely pissed that I was the one who got Sandbagged. The others escaped the match easily, I was just the solo guy that was bait in the game.

    Idk how people can do that lol I’d feel terrible about doing that to someone even if it was an accident. Well unless they deserved it of course then it’s just sweet revenge

    The only time I would ever do such a thing is if the person was in a locker or doing absolute nothing for the team. But this Jake deliberately led Freddy right onto me so he can have his own ass saved .His friends had woke him and healed him and went back to working on Gens while I hung on the hook and just killed myself because I knew that no one was coming for me because of ######### SWF teams.

    Yea that’s another reason why I try to never play solo. I always try to play with at least one person so even if I get sandbagged I know someone will try to save me.
  • Michael_Myers
    Michael_Myers Member Posts: 104

    I think the best thing to do would be what has been suggested... create a separate mode for swf where solo players can join if they want, mainly so it fills out the lobby and you aren't waiting forever for a game. An incentive should be provided for the killer to play against swf... like extra blood points and shards, or something along those lines. Thoughts?

  • Spotsy
    Spotsy Member Posts: 39
    edited May 2018

    killers should have the option to play with a swf lobby or just solo's

  • ThePloopz
    ThePloopz Member Posts: 1,010
    Michael_Myers said:

    I think the best thing to do would be what has been suggested... create a separate mode for swf where solo players can join if they want, mainly so it fills out the lobby and you aren't waiting forever for a game. An incentive should be provided for the killer to play against swf... like extra blood points and shards, or something along those lines. Thoughts?

    Yea I saw that suggestion in theory it’d be good but like how many killers and solo players would actually join that is the question. And all swf aren’t equal so should a two man swf be forced to join this because those aren’t nearly as strong as a 3-4 man.I think it all depends on the wait times.
  • Michael_Myers
    Michael_Myers Member Posts: 104
    edited May 2018

    @ThePloopz said:

    Yea I saw that suggestion in theory it’d be good but like how many killers and solo players would actually join that is the question. And all swf aren’t equal so should a two man swf be forced to join this because those aren’t nearly as strong as a 3-4 man.I think it all depends on the wait times.

    Yep agree. I'm sure it'll take some ironing out, but I think it's definitely doable. Like you said... 2 or 3 vs 4 swf groups and waiting times are the real x factor.

  • powerbats
    powerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    The easiest solution is give the killer a buff that only works against swf party members. That way if it's 3 swfs and 1 random the random is treated as normal but the other 3 might have a slight decrease in aura of each other or some other buff to the killer like he can see them from slightly further away.

    I've been the killer with a full premade and it's not fun especially when you'ere only a lvl 3 and they're almost completely geared out with ultra very rare and very rare perks and addons. Most have been pretty cool about and but some think they're great because they outdid you.

  • ThePloopz
    ThePloopz Member Posts: 1,010
    edited May 2018
    powerbats said:

    The easiest solution is give the killer a buff that only works against swf party members. That way if it's 3 swfs and 1 random the random is treated as normal but the other 3 might have a slight decrease in aura of each other or some other buff to the killer like he can see them from slightly further away.

    I've been the killer with a full premade and it's not fun especially when you'ere only a lvl 3 and they're almost completely geared out with ultra very rare and very rare perks and addons. Most have been pretty cool about and but some think they're great because they outdid you.

    I honestly think that’s a big reason swf is such a problem. It’s not the fact the people lose to it it’s the toxicity bm and cockyness that some swf teams bring and the people playing killer get frustrated because they have no real chance to put them in their place so they feel helpless.I think people would still want it looked at but I don’t think swf would be nearly as hated it as it is now if all swf teams were nice to the killers in game and afterwards.
  • Spiritbx
    Spiritbx Member Posts: 264
    The solution is simple in concept but hard in execution.  
      
    You have to make solo survivors closer to SWF in strength without making SWF any stronger. Then they could balance the killers around that, making them stronger overall, but letting solo survivors survive as often as SWF, mak8ng the game fun for all sides.
  • weirdkid5
    weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,144

    I made a very long post about this here: http://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/179/petition-to-either-create-ranked-and-casual-or-balance-the-game-around-swf#latest

    I would enjoy for you to come in and share your opinions. This particular thread got over 3000 comments on the Steam Forums, so let us keep it going here!

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Spotsy said:
    killers should have the option to play with a swf lobby or just solo's

    Except, the problem with that is; no killer would ever choose SWF. Thus they’d literally be INFINITELY in queue.

  • TheAngryPickle
    TheAngryPickle Member Posts: 73

    @Jack11803 said:

    @Spotsy said:
    killers should have the option to play with a swf lobby or just solo's

    Except, the problem with that is; no killer would ever choose SWF. Thus they’d literally be INFINITELY in queue.

    Tells you something about SWF then, don't it?

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @TheAngryPickle said:

    @Jack11803 said:

    @Spotsy said:
    killers should have the option to play with a swf lobby or just solo's

    Except, the problem with that is; no killer would ever choose SWF. Thus they’d literally be INFINITELY in queue.

    Tells you something about SWF then, don't it?

    Indeed.

  • Michael_Myers
    Michael_Myers Member Posts: 104

    @Jack11803 said:

    @Spotsy said:
    killers should have the option to play with a swf lobby or just solo's

    Except, the problem with that is; no killer would ever choose SWF. Thus they’d literally be INFINITELY in queue.

    Maybe 2 or 3x the regular amount of blood points? Pain and suffering needs compensation lol

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Michael_Myers said:

    @Jack11803 said:

    @Spotsy said:
    killers should have the option to play with a swf lobby or just solo's

    Except, the problem with that is; no killer would ever choose SWF. Thus they’d literally be INFINITELY in queue.

    Maybe 2 or 3x the regular amount of blood points? Pain and suffering needs compensation lol

    That could be a nice bandaid until the fixes that are needed occur. Maybe even if they don’t choose still give the bonus at the end. Just give something.

  • ThePloopz
    ThePloopz Member Posts: 1,010
    Michael_Myers said:

    @Jack11803 said:

    @Spotsy said:
    killers should have the option to play with a swf lobby or just solo's

    Except, the problem with that is; no killer would ever choose SWF. Thus they’d literally be INFINITELY in queue.

    Maybe 2 or 3x the regular amount of blood points? Pain and suffering needs compensation lol

    Yea like what if they game 2x the amount for a 4 man swf 1.75x for 3 man and 1.5x for a double. If there is two 2 mans then it counts as a 4man and they get the 2x.
  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    Its really hard to balance SWF now, I dont think it even is possible without adding ingame voice comms for everyone.

    What can be done though is splitting up SWF and soloplayers into different queues and give killers who feel masochistic 100% extra BP in the SWF queue

  • Runiver
    Runiver Member Posts: 2,095

    As a high rank player, mostly playing against solo survivors/duo survivors, I can tell one thing :
    At high ranks, the SWF isn't the only issue.

    Sure, SWF can make the experience even easier for survivors, and eventually even less pleasant for killers. But that is not all.

    Against experienced players, the game TRULY lack mindgames in a lot of situations.
    There is way too many pallets with full vision to run around, allowing the survivor to have full vision on you AND greatly reducing his ways to actually break vision and get off a chase.

    These two factors just lead to frustrations for both side :
    One side is just forced to keep getting chased for extended durations, with little chance to get away from a chase if the killer decides to commit (even tho you can lose a killer, in some situations, ofc)
    The other side is just running in tedious chases, with very little room for mindgames, leading to brainless pallet breaking, one by one, hoping either for a mistake, or to reach a part of the map without that many possibilities.

    Obviously, the killer can push a survivor in some place and such, or at least try to, and the survivor can eventually hide in some rare situations.
    But is that the most common cases ? I doubt so.
    And I think it should be.

    Pallet places should essentially be mindgames, either survivor or killer sided, or pretty balanced, but not a braindead run with, as sole purpose, to waste time without the possibility to even think.