Rework the Quitter Bonus
Ok so I was just working the numbers and I think that the “quitter bonus” could use an update. Now I’m taking these numbers from the Gamepedia wiki, so I hope they’re up-to-date. Anyway.....
Let’s assume that the typical sacrifice of a survivor involves 2 hits, a hook, 2 more hits, another hook, 2 more hits, and a final hook.
Each hit is worth 300 points. 300 x 6 = 1800 points.
Putting a survivor on the hook is worth 500 points. 500 x 3 = 1500 points.
Each phase of the sacrifice (hooked, entity summoned, sacrifice completed) is worth 200 points. 200 x 3 = 600 points.
Altogether, a typical sacrifice will net the killer 1800 + 1500 + 600 = 3900 points. This ignores other points from deviousness and hunting.
The current quitter bonus is worth 650 points. I see that as, well, insufficient. Rage-quits often occur on the first downing of a survivor, so this robs the killer of a lot of potential points!
For the sake of fairness, let’s assume that the survivor would have never been rescued from the hook, and that the disconnect happened after the first 2 hits. That’s still 1100 points (1 hook, 3 sacrifice stages). So where does this 650 come from?
I think 1100 would be quite fair as a new quitter bonus and would fully support seeing this implemented.
Even better, if it’s possible, would be to set a quitter bonus of 3900 for each survivor. Subtract each action against that survivor during the match (hunting, deviousness, everything) and award the remainder in the event of a disconnect. I believe this would be the most fair option, but I don’t know if it’s possible from a programming standpoint.
You maybe thinking it’s not fair to award points for actions not performed, but when a survivor DC’s, they are dead for all intents and purposes. I see that as the killer essentially being fast-tracked to the end of that survivor’s game. If the survivor is trying to spite the killer by denying him points, then their best bet would now be to stay in game, help their team, and not freely hand the killer any residual quitter bonus points.
For the record, I play both sides and I’m not trying to start some “killer-main vs survivor-main” type spat here. I just think this is something that could could use some looking into.
Comments
-
Personally I think the quitter bonus should be 2000 points in each category. This would equal 1/4th of your points, equal to one survivor. I also think however survivors should receive all 32000 points if the killer DCs. It'd also make people less likely to DC since they wouldn't be taking points away from the killer by doing it, imo.
3 -
@Atrushan88 so let me get this straight. 8000 points per survivor which if all dc would give you 32000 points. Which I guess you could deem as fair. However, giving survivors 32000 a piece? That is 128000 points per killer disconnect giving out. Why would it be fair to reward survivors with 4x as many points? Although, I really think it should be split up fair. If a killer dcs each survivor gets 5k (20k points total) that should be rewarded to the killer if the survivor dcs (5k a piece.) which would be more balanced.
2 -
@Jdsgames If the killer DCs early survivors are without a game. The game is a 1v4 Killer vs Survivors. Why should Survivors not get exactly as many points as the killer would if all four of them DCed? One survivor DCing would give them one fourth of their quota, the exact equality of their existence in the game point-wise. A killer is one player, and you NEED him for the game to exist. If it was any less for a killer DCing, it would be unfair. This, again, would discourage the killer from DCing because if he did, survivors all got max points. Just like it would discourage Survivors from DCing because they gave him 1/4 of his points without effort. You're not rewarding survivors 4x as many points. Each survivor, point wise, gets 32000 points if the killer DCs. When it comes to the point calculation in this scenario, you have to think of each survivor as one player. The game ended abruptly and wasted each survivor's time. Each survivor should get the exact amount of points they would have gotten if all four of them disconnected from the killer. Yes, over all it's more points given for a single game, but if one survivor disconnects, that game isn't ended and the killer can still get more points on his own from the other 3 survivors. If a killer DCs, that game ends abruptly and survivors cannot get any more points. A game continues if one survivor leaves, but it doesn't if the killer leaves.
2 -
I completely understand your justification for this, but consider how deeply people would take advantage. One way or another, they would find ways to exploit this and farm points like nobody’s business.
Imagine a game where 3+ party streamers go up. It would be downright expected of the killer to throw his game and disconnect to flood the survivors with points!
0 -
@yobuddd Easy fix, remove party streamers from taking effect if the killer DCs, but give the offering back to the players. Also why would the killer do that, knowing he'd get 0 BPs for doing exactly that?
1 -
@Atrushan88 Although, I can agree with @yobuddd and see your justification. But it encourages getting someone to disconnect. I am up for a generalized value of points where it is fair on both sides. That is your 'reward' for attempting to play the game. Which was ruined by disconnects. Rewarding people with max points would only encourage beyond toxic behavior. As it would be the most rewarded.
0 -
@Jdsgames I cannot see for the life of me how this encourages disconnects. It's not like you're playing against your friend. Killers want points, Survivors want points, and as far as I'm aware people disconnect to PREVENT point gain. No killer is going to disconnect because there were 3 bloody party streamers in play, and even if they did, I've always believed Bloody Party Streamers should not have any effect on a game if a killer disconnects. The point of it is to double points. 10000 points for one(as is currently) is a waste, and if it worked like I'd prefer it to, 64000 for one would be too much.
0 -
@Atrushan88 Still doesn't reward me a BBQ stack? So either way the people disconnecting still win. Disconnecting as intended rewards points to the other side. Killer dcs properly each survivor gets 5k. Survivor dcs killer gets like 650. Survivors dc to prevent BBQ stack or out of some fit of rage. However, giving someone max points constantly would flood the blood-web grind to a #########-show. If you want practically the most points force disconnects every game. No effort needed.
0 -
@Jdsgames Right, it doesn't, but you are still gonna get max points which is plenty if 4 survivors DC, if one DCs, you get 8000. I say that's fair. For Survivors, they DC to prevent BBQ stacks, BECAUSE IT PREVENTS EXTRA POINT GAIN FOR THE KILLER. Why would I as a survivor WANT to DC, giving myself 0 points and giving the killer a free 8k, which would be more than if he'd just hooked me? And the DCing player would not win, because you're not likely to get 32k as killer, or 8k off of one person as killer even with the BBQ stack.
0 -
@Atrushan88 you are looking at it. "Why would I MYSELF want to DC" I am saying it would turn into: "I WANT THEM to DC" which would encourage bullying and other game-ruining tactics to show more frequently.
2 -
@Jdsgames I suppose that is one way of looking at it, true. The killer would gain much less points though by doing this, since they're not going to likely be ABLE to make 4 people DC, or even 2. That kind of toxic behavior is aimed at ONE person. The others have to just do gens while he's bullying that one person trying to get him to DC and he's ruined for points and wasted his time while all the other gens pop off. Survivors can't really do anything "toxic" to make the killer DC. They can just work with what they have, which is pallet looping, and that's not toxic, it's just survival. The killer then hopefully learns his lesson by trying this attempt.
0 -
They got basemen-ted on Yamaoka Estate. (Ranks are due to 4 man swf)
Again they didn't care they lost points they got a free hatch. There are several game mechanics that encourage disconnecting. Hatch being one of them.
0 -
I mean the basement is a part of the game. I don't find that toxic. If you were camping them in the basement all they had to do was gens.
As for them not caring about losing points because of the hatch, only one person got the hatch, so I don't see the logic in that at all. The hatch though, in my opinion, only encourages disconnects and whatnot because it waits until the animation of the survivor dying completes. It always bugged me that the hatch waits so damn long personally.
0 -
@Atrushan88 Yes, but if you read the comments they ENJOYED ending the game like that. They were PROUD of what they did. Like some in-game vigilantes. No, I did not camp every time I walked backwards and saw someone book it down. I was loaded with 5 hatchets. Basement has a pretty long set of stairs. They multiplied like rabbits. However, I partially blame the devs for being so careless about this behavior. Although, if by your 8k a piece logic I would have gained more points than what I had banked. I think I had 6 hooks by the time they got 1 gen done. All 4 had ds so bad plays were easy to be made because 'Just don't tunnel ez'
0 -
I mean, yeah, you'd get more points from their dcs. Isn't that the goal? From reading the comments I see no enjoyment, they disliked you but it doesn't show them all saying they were glad to DC. But again, if the devs would fix the issue of the hatch waiting for the death animation to open, people wouldn't need to DC for hatch. It could just open once the last person hits stage 3 on hook. That part makes no sense to me anyways.
However if you're worried about full games playing out and people DCing later on, there could be a reasonable time limit on the DCs. Most DCs happen early in the game, so that should still be enough to discourage DCs.
0 -
Discourage the DC in the first place: Remove the double-depip (because some like easier games), give them a time-out where they cannot join a game for a bit and most importantly, subtract bloodpoints.
You'll soon find the DC rate drops.
3 -
@JawsIsTheNextKiller Removing the double depip would certainly help! I also like the idea of @Atrushan88 for a delayed DC. For example, maybe it’s not even an option until 2 gens are complete. Let’s take it a step further and delay the action too. When a survivor DC’s, they lose control of their character and get to watch everything that happens during the next 15 seconds. This makes it harder to effectively DC and spite the killer while being carried or moried.
I’m afraid this thread has drifted a bit off topic though. I’ve seen countless discussions about DC and how to potentially stop the problem. My original concern was more about the quitter bonus.
I would LOVE to earn 8000/32000 (K/S) points per DC, but I’m just not sure the devs would go for it. One way or another, people will find a way to exploit it. I play PS4, but I’ve seen talk of a “pre-game chat” that I assume is available for pc players. Imagine if people go shopping for “DC rooms” and lobby dodge if the players actually want to play. It makes sense, as this would net them more points than a typical match. This would ultimately cause legitimate players to wait significantly longer to get into an actual game though, due to wait times for multiple lobbies.
This is why I think my numbers in the OP are a bit more fair. They’re less likely to be abused and have a basis in points that would be earned for a typical sacrifice. This is also something that reasonable survivors would probably find to be a fair change rather than a “crutch for killers”.
Still, it seems that everyone who’s posted here is in agreement: The quitter bonus needs to be increased! @Peanits Do you know if a change in point values like this is in the works?
0 -
Nice ideas in there. In my opinion what is weird of the quitter bonuses, is the facts that points go towards the brutality category.
Brutality, Hunting and Deviousness can be maxed out even if one player DC (surely it will be harder, but not impossible). There is only one category that can't be maxed out and gets heavy penalty from a DC: the sacrifice category.
So i'd personally prefer to see any quitters points go towards the sacrifice category to counterbalance that.
10 -
@JawsIsTheNextKiller I would encourage Shard loss not Bloodpoint Loss. Shards help you buy cosmetics in the game, that do not require Auric Cells. This would make them a grind currency that you can lose for leaving the game. Which punishes bad behavior. I agree 100% of the DC not double de-pipping you to reward easier games. We have something once a month called RANK RESET for those who cannot handle higher tier gameplay.
2 -
@Gcarrara Yes, I can 100% agree it should entirely go towards the sacrifice category. However, in many cases like the ones above that match they were not the disconnects that happen by pushing the disconnect button. They are caused by either 'Pulling the Plug' or turning the computer off manually. These types of disconnects do not reward emblems properly either.
1 -
I wasn't camping. I walk backwards frequently as a killer and see them booking it once my TR/Lullaby goes away. They got trapped in the basement making bad plays several times. I couldn't actually get far enough away to not visually see them running into the basement before I could leave. However, the "tsk tsk tsk" comments are generally the ones that show they are pleased with themselves. However, again hatch shouldn't simply exist it encourages disconnects and the whole "It shouldn't wait for death animation" would leave to camping hatches and goodbye 4ks without 'zzzz slugging' which isn't fair on the killers side either. If you guys don't manage to get gens done and gates open you don't deserve to leave. Currently even with hatch close most of the games you can't watch both doors as a lower speed killer. So likely on even my match he would have gotten out via a gate. EGC removed the original free escape that was hatch. Then replaced it with you have to close hatch and guard 2 practically free escapes on most maps. Then you also have the open it slightly less than the first light and then finish it. Again power role is given to the survivor. They also removed the 2 gens done to get hatch incentive. This team got a great 1 gen done from I believe 6/7 hooks. They got a free escape by dc. The mechanics outright encourage it.
0 -
Believe me I want to punish DCs as much as the next person! However, deducting iridescent shards hurts people who have a legitimate connection loss. We don’t want to put them at risk for the toxic behavior of others. Also, let’s not forget how survivors have found ways in the past to knock out the killer’s connection (flashlight spams and such). Should these exploits re-emerge, the hard-earned shards would be at high risk. No, I think the focus should still be on the quitter bonus in terms of bloodpoints. Along with that, the body of the survivor should remain an interact-able object for the killer for at least 15 seconds after the player DCs.
Onto your other concern, the hatch. Remember back when, even for the last survivor, the hatch didn’t appear until 2 gens were complete? Well what if we edit things so that, for the last survivor, the hatch spawns but remains closed until 2 gens are complete? To keep things fair, the survivor should be able to pry open the hatch, but it takes the same amount of time as opening a gate.
- The survivor can still escape without running gennies, but it takes longer.
- If the killer is standing on the hatch, then work a gen near a gate and book it to the other gate when he stomps it. Or throw a Diversion to make him chase ghosts further from the hatch. Mind games.
- The Left Behind perk will finally have a use again (however minimal that may still be).
This wouldn’t fix ALL disconnect-for-hatch scenarios, but it would help.
0 -
@yobuddd I agree with your ideas for disconnects. The only reason I say shards is because bloodpoints are an easy gain. No real loss. There is also a huge difference from the disconnects. General lag outs they already had a rough connection prior to disconnects. I don't understand how the game can't determine the connection crashed. Although, that might happen with dedi servers. Pulling the plug is almost the same as losing power an instantaneous out with nothing to acknowledge a crash. If they disconnect and were not having bad connection prior I would assume it was an intentional disconnect. The odds your power goes out while playing dbd is rare. I have had it happen once in 2000+ hours. Losing some shards because of it would be an oh well.
As far as hatch goes. I truly think exit gates should have a slight increase on time once they are more stable distance. Hatch only appears after 2 gens are completed. However, if the last survivor is alone and these gens are not completed. A similar form of EGC should start in which your timer ticks down for you to progress towards the remaining generator. Once hatch spawns it is a race against the clock. You or the killer. Hatch closed if you didn't bring or get a key it is down to you to try and get out from the exit gate. Again acknowledging it is a 4v1 if you can't get 2 gens solo before the end game. I truly believe you didn't deserve to escape. Even gen-tapping ruin with dying light would be possible to get 2 gens done minimum. Now before you downvote or question why so hard on the survivor. I do not think removing the 99% on doors being removed if this is implemented. If the survivors make it to EGC they DESERVE a chance to escape. It should play out as a slightly more favored to the survivors.
0 -
@Jdsgames People camp the hatch regardless, and when there are only two left, is it really reasonable to even try to unhook that person if you still have 3+ gens left because the rest of your team were potatoes? I slug always on the last survivor. There's no reason not to, because they get the hatch otherwise. Either way, someone's getting the hatch unless you slug, so why draw out the hatch opening by making it wait for the animation? This is EXACTLY why people DC for hatch, and if it were fixed no one would have to DC to give someone the hatch.
0 -
The idea of giving someone the hatch was originally mainly done by running to a farther end of map than hatch was and getting the killer's attention. This way by the time they walked back it would be opened. Now that survivors are exploiting the disconnect mechanic doesn't mean it isn't valid. Hatch ALWAYS has opened when the last survivor was left. The animation for sacrifice was never slowed. Therefore the logic of Dc for Hatch is needed is invalid.
0 -
@Jdsgames You can't always do that, and even if you could, the fact remains that until it is fixed like I suggested people are going to exploit it. They're likely to get the hatch either way if you don't slug, so I don't see the point in prolonging the inevitable, which again, causes survivors to DC.
I never said it was NEEDED. In fact I said the opposite, I said they would likely get the hatch regardless(assuming they kill themselves on the hook like good little survivors), so there was no point in having it draw out the sequence.
0 -
Survivor staying in the match should win that bonus too.
0 -
Actually, I respectfully disagree with this. If the survivor is connected the entire match, then the killer had every opportunity to max out his points, and simply got played. The quitter bonus is more for killers who are robbed of their killing opportunities.
0 -
Completely agree, at the moment its to little of points and if someone dc's you can end up depiping or not piping at all just because osmeone got upset
0
