The real reason why looping, camping and tunnelling MUST be removed from the game
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@DBDbuildsYT I feel like we all know it's a problem, but running down core mechanics is never the way to go. The best part of a game is the freedom it allows. If I can't kill who I want, why play killer? If I can't escape a chase, why play survivor?
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Likewise, if you think you should break a chase purely cause a survivor is good at looping, then you more than anybody need to learn exactly when to stop chasing someone. If that's the reason you break a chase, then there are going to be a number of games at high ranks where you have to stop chasing everybody.
The only valid reason to stop chasing a survivor is if you have another target of equal or easier difficulty. Which is going to be a less than common case that you know exactly where another survivor is while in a chase. Sure it happens, but it's not nearly common enough to where you can just stop a chase any time it's becoming difficult. Otherwise you've just wasted your time in order to accomplish nothing in the end.
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Besides me who I am not the most appropriate specimen of a killer, sometimes the survivor is better sometimes it's the area of the map that simply puts the survivor in a position where he will lose your time no matter what unless you retreat.
You (power role) retreating from a 1/4 of the opposing team due to bad map design is NOT balanced.
And I agree on skills being roughly equal in a match to have some balance
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Well I think the problem here is that the internet has shown that without regulations people don't self regulate and balance isnt achievable.
Let me show why self regulation doesn't work.
This is a video of my sister, I am playing Vanessa in the clip. We used to be very efficient Jason hunters in F13 the game. In this clip we failed to kill Jason and from 6.30 mins onward we just proceed in bullying Jason to submission with nothing he can really do.
This isn't neither asymmetric nor balanced
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in theory sure, but there are a few problems here:
- even in high ranks, coming across a team of 4 very good survivors is extremely rare. there will almost always be somebody you can down for pressure to bait out the others into less favourable conditions. red ranks are still populated by plenty of potatoes
- it's less about not chasing a good survivor and more about not chasing a good survivor who is in a strong position. there will never be a point where all 4 survivors are on generators in strong setups (unless you're on haddonfield because screw that map), so pick your chases carefully and go for somebody who is in a weaker position. a good survivor in a weak position still goes down fairly quickly provided the killer doesn't mess up horribly. conversely, making the decision to chase someone you know is confident around the barn on cowshed, for example, is effectively deciding to throw the game
- stopping a chase and going to patrol gens you think survivors will be on is best done after you've broken a few pallets (and if you've done your job correctly, even if you needed to drop chase, pallets should be gone). you may not have downed the person you were chasing because they made it to an incredibly safe window or setup but you did make the map less safe for other survivors who may not know that certain pallets are gone, which is very important for the pacing of the game because it impacts future chases
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You gotta know when to stop chasing and start searching for the weaker link.
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It's useless telling him that because he thinks that breaking a chase means you're weaker than that one survivor.
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@HectorBrando And what if there isn't one?
What if you're no perk freddy against an elite 5k hours a piece squadette?
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Then you're walking into a game already knowing it's an uphill battle. You don't get to handicap yourself and then act like it's an issue of balance.
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@ClogWench So everyone should play meta build nurse then. Okay.
Everyone should be viable against players of all skill levels perks/add-ons or not.
If a new player gets to rank 1 has no good perks that niche situation should be accounted for.
No player being a weak link should be accounted for in balance as well as all killers with all builds.
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Stupid post (no offence) - People will camp, People will tunnel and People will gen rush and People will loop....key word here is people...! People will do ######### no matter what mechanics are put in place, you can help navigate people towards a different way of playing, but ultimately people will do what they want when they want and how they want. Time to change the record this complaining about this ######### is so old now..its 2019..
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There is always someone who isnt as good as the rest, in SWFs is usually the survivor who is rarely alone and tries to be quieter than his peers, as to no draw attention, they rarely have attention drawing items like keys or flashlights.
In my experience most SWF have 1 very good looper, 2 decent players and 1 gen jockey who is not very good at looping.
In the event you do land against an insanely good team... well it sucks, but those teams are not very common, its like landing against Doctor in The Game with Irisdiscent, it doesnt happen all the time.
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First off, you're using extremes on both sides. Should a no perk killer be on par with a team of well equipped skilled survivors? No, you're choosing to handicap yourself. I do think certain killers deserve buffs to play better in high tiers tho. Secondly, there are a decent few Killers who are high tier viable. It's not just nurse. But that's hardly the point
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I don't think you are really reading the point here, it is extremely common for an average dbd player to take the killer on a ride for at least 60 seconds. You don't need to be a god looper to do so, you need to be average.
60 seconds is an eternity in dbd, if by any chance you meet GOOD survivors this is going to take even 80 seconds, which is a full gen.
It is obviously not balanced, a 1/4 of a team should not be able to take so much of a the FULL other team time.
This abomination is indefensible
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but why do you think nurse is high tier?
because she can end chases faster nullifying looping, mentioning nurse is an even bigger point to show looping being the main source of unbalance in the game.
Even more than gen rushing because if chases end fast people CANNOT work on gens because they will be targeted right away from the killer for another short chase.
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Most high tier killers have tools to combat looping, and that's the right way to go in balancing the game around it instead of gutting the game like your proposing.
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@ClogWench My point was adressing your handicapping statement.
The extremes are used intentionally.
Not playing Nurse with Omega blink but choosing to play insta saw billy is handicapping yourself in comparison.
I'm addressing the precedent "handicapping" as an excuse against the worst vs the best sets.
Everything should be fun and viable against all opponents is my point you should be able to run anything and not worry about a handicap because if we all did we would all play Nurse.
You shouldn't be at a disadvantage for choosing to play no perk freddy instead everything should be even.. one universal killer tier including perks.
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I am proposing A SOLUTION which doesn't mean it has to be THE SOLUTION.
As I stated several times in this topic, my main point was to unmask once and for all how much of a problem was the unintended mechanic (I will avoid saying exploit since it is now an accepted mechanic) which then became known as looping. With looping being at the core of the current unbalance between the 2 teams in DBD.
I also stated that i would prefer a radical solution to the issue but I accepted that a radical solution won't happen because it is too late to remove it now because people got used to it.
So your suggestion is probably the one that will end up happening.
Nevertheless these situations, looping, camping and tunnelling, which are not fun for the majority of the players in the trial need to be addressed as soon as possible because they are unhealthy for the game.
And I don't think just reworking two maps per year is enough, if we want to stay in the conservative solution as you are suggesting, there needs to be a massive redesign of the problematic tiles and an increase in game time if you want to keep longer chases.
One way or another this is a priority that needs addressing
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You can not have a system that has perks with special bonuses and still maintain a balance between using those bonuses and not. That is not how games work. It'd be great if it did but it's not and it never will be. The only way to accomplish what you want is to outright abolish perks entirely. I support buffing killers to work at higher tiers but there's always gonna be someone better than the others, even by a small margin.
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A small margin would be a victory though, at the present time given an equal skills killer to survivor some killers cannot compete consistently at high ranks. They may get the off win when versing people with lower skill level but the difference between a nurse and a legion is staggering. I usually main nurse, spirit , legion and mickey, and the difference is mind blowing
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Its scary how many people don't understand why this game is fun to play and how it succeeded.
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I don't doubt it, I do think changes need to be made to balance. I just don't think your ideas would work. At best they'd make the game unfun, at worst they'd outright kill the survivor community and make things miserable for experienced players.
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Yet another quality loop/camp/troll post
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If you're willingly chasing an average survivor into a setup that will waste 60 seconds of your time you're a ######### killer.
Strategy is also part of the game. Don't turn off your brain and expect to succeed.
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OK I see that, then show me several videos of yours where you end most chases fast against good survivors.
I'm curious to learn because none of the most respected killers is able to do so against competent survivors consistently.
So I would like to see videos please, if you don't have them please record them in the next days
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Yes just remove it, why didn't I think of this!
I am sure that will work perfectly
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Looping is a skill. if you remove it from this game what is left for survivors to differentiate skill.
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Sheesh. Typing in this forum is pretty near impossible.
Everything you're complaining about with looping/camping/tunneling are all aspects of gameplay that are up to the player and not illegal game play. They are not cheating. If you don't like it, try conversing with them about it. Their steam profile is accessible from the game. This is like asking a restaurant to make someone stop belching or chewing with their mouth open. It's not the restaurant's job, if it offends you that much, speak to the offender.
Looping - you seem to have forgotten that all killers are faster than survivors, and on top of that most killers have an innate special ability that when used correctly in a chase guarantees downing the survivor. Balance is allowing the survivor to have a chance at escaping a chase by dropping pallets and looping.
Camping - when the survivors unhook people on the killer all the time, the acceptable counter play is to camp. counter play to camping? genrushing. This is simple.
Tunnelling - killers have OBSESSIONS for crying out loud. By tunnelling they're actually playing using the obsession for what it was made for, they get perks for killing the obsession. There is counter play to this also, the rest of the team gets the gens done.
For someone so seemingly knowledgeable that keeps going on about the balance. As a survivor you are a member of a team. You can actually play matches where you do not survive yet you earn the most bloodpoints. You do not LOSE because you died. Same with killer you can earn a bunch of points even when everyone escapes. The killer doesn't LOSE because 1 person escaped a chase.
Don't forget that this is just a game. If you aren't enjoying it then you most definitely have the option not to play.
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You want a game that's not DBD. That's all
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Camping isn't a problem. The survivors will win if they just do gens.
Tunneling isn't a problem. It's an efficient way to kill survivors and with the current unbalanced state of the game, it often is necessary to put pressure on survivors.
Looping itself itsn't the problem. The problem is that gens are done too fast compared to the length of chases. Chases are the fun part of DbD for the majority of players, for both killers and survivors. Without looping, this wouldn't be DbD anymore and a lot of players would leave.
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1. Your formatting is bad and made me only read small portions of your post.
2. Looping isn’t an exploit and if you don’t think the game was designed around the idea of the killers chasing the survivor, you’re sorta missing the entire point of the game. If looping didn’t exist, DBD would be boring as hell.
3. Your “solutions” for camping and tunneling are genuinely awful.
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Idk why I feel like loopings not that bad 😅 I kill loopers pretty quickly even in red ranks does anyone else not feel like it's a big deal? It is pretty annoying but it really doesn't but the survivors enough time to worry about this much
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Killers cry too much, please stop crying.
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I play the game for fun, but I don't like when they change a survivor perk like metal of men that got me mad
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I'm just gonna say "tunneling" is not a thing. If a survivor unhooks someone in front of the killer's face, OF COURSE they're going to go for the easy target. It's not fun for the person who becomes the easy target, but it's the survivor's fault in the first place this happens, UNLESS the killer is camping, but that's why we have borrowed time. I hate when another survivor unhooks me right in the killer's face. It's a STUPID move and should not be encouraged. In fact I want the ability to refuse people unhooking me for those situations specifically. Camping is pretty dickish, but "tunneling" as you call it is just the killer making the correct choice when faced with this situation. We should not be getting angry at killers for doing this, but survivors for putting us in that situation to begin with.
As for your idea, this could be easily abused. You get hooked after the gates are opened? Good thing your friend just unhooked you and you can casually walk up to the door for 60 seconds without worrying about being downed. Killer hooks two people at similar times? Once we're both unhooked we can just heal ourselves to full right in front of him. Killer's FoV increased? Welp, say goodbye to stealth gameplay. The first hook not killing you thing is a good attempt at an idea, but instead of trying to unhook themselves(because the killer will just camp them anyways and try to down them when they get off the hook, or if your idea that makes it too strong for the survivor is in play, then they'll just lead him to someone else), they will sit on the hook until all the gens are done, and the door is opened, wait for their friend to come unhook them and get an escape for free.
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