Stealth. Viability in the current Meta
Comments
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@Darckshado9 Bro, listen. Stealth is viable. I have been doing it for a long time now against every killer at every rank. It doesn't ALWAYS work which is what I think you expect it to do, and it shouldn't be the case. Stealth is only as good as the player executing it.
Case and point; I'm Huntress (rank 10 currently) on Haddonfield. I go to Myers house knowing someone was working on the gen (because it was always running when I would go by). Low and behold, the gen is running. I kick it and take a look around. I search the top and bottom floors, even look around outside a smidge. Decide to go upstairs and look down the street from the porch. Look around, nothing, okay. I go back through the window inside just to make sure the gen was still off when I see it. Across at the other window, a Claudette's hair. I walk over and climb out, look to my left. She is sitting right there. Now I have been by this gen for a solid 20 seconds looking around. I was about to give up when I saw her. And it was pretty obvious I saw her because it was a double take. I hit her, she runs inside and out the next over window which is the one that falls to the ground. I follow through the window expect to get loop or for her to go to a pallet. I look around, she's not in sight but I hear her. Guess where she was? P3 injured Claudette sitting in the bush right where she jumped out of the window. I hit her again and hook her in the basement. GG Claud now you are dead.
This guy thought he was being stealthy. You would probably think what he did was stealthy. But no this is not stealth, it's stupidity. Let me break down everything wrong she did and how she could have easily survived the encounter.
1) She should have left the moment she heard me coming. 1 survivor was already dead, the Claud was my obs (Remember Me) but had no DS or OOO. If you are a survivor and end up as obs that means with RM or Dying Light, therefore you want to be EXTRA CAUTIOUS and take EXTRA STEPS to avoid being found, because the ability for EVERYONE including the obs to escape hinges on me finding the obs. When she heard my TR she should have just left. Basement is there, she's obs, she should have left. Doesn't matter to where, walk to the other side of the map even. Instead she stayed.
2) When she noticed I saw her (again it was quite obvious I did) she should have started running. Doesn't matter where she would have easily had a good 10 second head start on me. Nope, thought I would be stupid and just not see her ass sitting there next to the window.
3) After I hit her she went inside, which is an okay move. Jumps out the window where you fall to the ground, okay another good move to get out of the Myers house. But then what does she do? HIDES IN A BUSH. Dude this isn't stealth. I'm not a great killer but I pay attention to what's going on around me. If I chase you out a window and don't see you anywhere near but still hear you I will use my $300 headset to figure out where you are. I even half circled the house a tad, giving her YET ANOTHER opportunity to run.In short this Claudette was trying to be "stealthy" but was clearly not good at it. She had ample opportunities to stealth me PROPERLY and did not. You are basically asking for this player's tactics to be viable when the truth is such tactics are only viable against idiot killers. Again I stealth killers all the time just by walking away. THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO DO TO SUCCEED AT BEING STEALTHY. Literally it's that easy but most survivors are not smart enough to do that. You can go on all day about how killers are finding you, and I'm telling you that they find you because you are PREDICTABLE, and likely also because you don't know when to just WALK AWAY.
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@thesuicidefox no, i 100% get that person should have died, but my request in that you take 4 people, and group them together, and they all go either stealth builds or High Agro builds (all stealth one match and All agro another) against killers of equal skill, they should come out with a similar result. Im not saying that they should be equal, again because there are just so many killers its hard to stealth against but easy to loop, but when I tell everyone I'm running a stealth build in a rank 1 lobby, I shouldn't feel their eyes rolling into their heads. Taking the situation I described, I would say the average in those matches would be 3 alive in the agro match with 3-4 hookings between them, and 1 alive with 5 hookings. After-all, This is a horror game, an currently, its not exactly scary, and I play these interestingly bad ways in an attempt to return that tense feeling I loved so much back to this game
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@Darckshado9 said:
@thesuicidefox no, i 100% get that person should have died, but my request in that you take 4 people, and group them together, and they all go either stealth builds or High Agro builds (all stealth one match and All agro another) against killers of equal skill, they should come out with a similar result. Im not saying that they should be equal, again because there are just so many killers its hard to stealth against but easy to loop, but when I tell everyone I'm running a stealth build in a rank 1 lobby, I shouldn't feel their eyes rolling into their heads. Taking the situation I described, I would say the average in those matches would be 3 alive in the agro match with 3-4 hookings between them, and 1 alive with 5 hookings. After-all, This is a horror game, an currently, its not exactly scary, and I play these interestingly bad ways in an attempt to return that tense feeling I loved so much back to this gameIt's only a horror game in the context that it shares horror themes. Only new players will feel scared in this game, because any veteran player will look at is at that, a game.
And as I keep telling you, going stealth is viable even against a killer of your skill level. It doesn't matter what my team runs, 99% of the time I run the same build; SB, SC, Spine Chill, and Small Game (last one I swap around, using this now because it makes finding totems easy and every killer runs Ruin at rank 1). When the killer comes close I hide BY BREAKING LINE OF SIGHT. I don't sit in a dark corner, or a bush. I walk around an object, a tree, tire pile, a car, the hill, anything that will hide my silhouette from the killer. I will flat out walk around something and be 5m behind a killer where they just walked and most of the time they keep walking one way and I just go the other way. No idea I was even there, and then I leave. That's how you stealth in this game.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Darckshado9 said:
@thesuicidefox no, i 100% get that person should have died, but my request in that you take 4 people, and group them together, and they all go either stealth builds or High Agro builds (all stealth one match and All agro another) against killers of equal skill, they should come out with a similar result. Im not saying that they should be equal, again because there are just so many killers its hard to stealth against but easy to loop, but when I tell everyone I'm running a stealth build in a rank 1 lobby, I shouldn't feel their eyes rolling into their heads. Taking the situation I described, I would say the average in those matches would be 3 alive in the agro match with 3-4 hookings between them, and 1 alive with 5 hookings. After-all, This is a horror game, an currently, its not exactly scary, and I play these interestingly bad ways in an attempt to return that tense feeling I loved so much back to this gameIt's only a horror game in the context that it shares horror themes. Only new players will feel scared in this game, because any veteran player will look at is at that, a game.
And as I keep telling you, going stealth is viable even against a killer of your skill level. It doesn't matter what my team runs, 99% of the time I run the same build; SB, SC, Spine Chill, and Small Game (last one I swap around, using this now because it makes finding totems easy and every killer runs Ruin at rank 1). When the killer comes close I hide BY BREAKING LINE OF SIGHT. I don't sit in a dark corner, or a bush. I walk around an object, a tree, tire pile, a car, the hill, anything that will hide my silhouette from the killer. I will flat out walk around something and be 5m behind a killer where they just walked and most of the time they keep walking one way and I just go the other way. No idea I was even there, and then I leave. That's how you stealth in this game.
Okay, I’m rank 1 killer, stealth needs a few small buff, but mainly QOL changes. 1) BBQ 3 seconds. Basically same strength on normal killers, you ping their general area. However it greatly weakens Billy’s cheese with it. Goo. 2) Male characters, make them actually crouch like they’re trying to hide. Currently they spread their arms, and just hunch really hard. Meanwhile meg and claudette actually go down low. Yes, the male characters are taller, but they don’t even TRY to crouch. 3) Make breathing quieter. I hear it all the time, when someone’s immersed near me. “Headphones OP PLS NERF” aside, this isn’t about what you said, hiding at a predictable spot, I mean I’m just walking across to patrol, a hear a super heavy sigh from a survivor. And for some reason, heavy breathing from running stays with you the whole game. Healthy breathing should honestly only be heard with strider, or after a big sprint. For injured, it should be a BIT quieter, but not by much. Currently iron will is mandatory for injured hiding, and not everyone has self care. Just make it a smidge quieter, maybe strider will ACTUALLY HAVE A USE.
Main gripe has gotta be the male characters crouch though, it’s stupid.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Darckshado9 said:
@thesuicidefox no, i 100% get that person should have died, but my request in that you take 4 people, and group them together, and they all go either stealth builds or High Agro builds (all stealth one match and All agro another) against killers of equal skill, they should come out with a similar result. Im not saying that they should be equal, again because there are just so many killers its hard to stealth against but easy to loop, but when I tell everyone I'm running a stealth build in a rank 1 lobby, I shouldn't feel their eyes rolling into their heads. Taking the situation I described, I would say the average in those matches would be 3 alive in the agro match with 3-4 hookings between them, and 1 alive with 5 hookings. After-all, This is a horror game, an currently, its not exactly scary, and I play these interestingly bad ways in an attempt to return that tense feeling I loved so much back to this gameIt's only a horror game in the context that it shares horror themes. Only new players will feel scared in this game, because any veteran player will look at is at that, a game.
And as I keep telling you, going stealth is viable even against a killer of your skill level. It doesn't matter what my team runs, 99% of the time I run the same build; SB, SC, Spine Chill, and Small Game (last one I swap around, using this now because it makes finding totems easy and every killer runs Ruin at rank 1). When the killer comes close I hide BY BREAKING LINE OF SIGHT. I don't sit in a dark corner, or a bush. I walk around an object, a tree, tire pile, a car, the hill, anything that will hide my silhouette from the killer. I will flat out walk around something and be 5m behind a killer where they just walked and most of the time they keep walking one way and I just go the other way. No idea I was even there, and then I leave. That's how you stealth in this game.
Someone who actually understands that stealth is not the same as hiding? Am I dreaming?
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@Orion said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Darckshado9 said:
@thesuicidefox no, i 100% get that person should have died, but my request in that you take 4 people, and group them together, and they all go either stealth builds or High Agro builds (all stealth one match and All agro another) against killers of equal skill, they should come out with a similar result. Im not saying that they should be equal, again because there are just so many killers its hard to stealth against but easy to loop, but when I tell everyone I'm running a stealth build in a rank 1 lobby, I shouldn't feel their eyes rolling into their heads. Taking the situation I described, I would say the average in those matches would be 3 alive in the agro match with 3-4 hookings between them, and 1 alive with 5 hookings. After-all, This is a horror game, an currently, its not exactly scary, and I play these interestingly bad ways in an attempt to return that tense feeling I loved so much back to this gameIt's only a horror game in the context that it shares horror themes. Only new players will feel scared in this game, because any veteran player will look at is at that, a game.
And as I keep telling you, going stealth is viable even against a killer of your skill level. It doesn't matter what my team runs, 99% of the time I run the same build; SB, SC, Spine Chill, and Small Game (last one I swap around, using this now because it makes finding totems easy and every killer runs Ruin at rank 1). When the killer comes close I hide BY BREAKING LINE OF SIGHT. I don't sit in a dark corner, or a bush. I walk around an object, a tree, tire pile, a car, the hill, anything that will hide my silhouette from the killer. I will flat out walk around something and be 5m behind a killer where they just walked and most of the time they keep walking one way and I just go the other way. No idea I was even there, and then I leave. That's how you stealth in this game.
Someone who actually understands that stealth is not the same as hiding? Am I dreaming?
Steath by definition is ANYTHING that causes you to avoid detection. It’s not walking away, it’s literally anything that involves plan A) not starting a chase, or plan
a chase started but juking the killer0 -
@Jack11803 said:
Okay, I’m rank 1 killer, stealth needs a few small buff, but mainly QOL changes. 1) BBQ 3 seconds. Basically same strength on normal killers, you ping their general area. However it greatly weakens Billy’s cheese with it. Goo. 2) Male characters, make them actually crouch like they’re trying to hide. Currently they spread their arms, and just hunch really hard. Meanwhile meg and claudette actually go down low. Yes, the male characters are taller, but they don’t even TRY to crouch. 3) Make breathing quieter. I hear it all the time, when someone’s immersed near me. “Headphones OP PLS NERF” aside, this isn’t about what you said, hiding at a predictable spot, I mean I’m just walking across to patrol, a hear a super heavy sigh from a survivor. And for some reason, heavy breathing from running stays with you the whole game. Healthy breathing should honestly only be heard with strider, or after a big sprint. For injured, it should be a BIT quieter, but not by much. Currently iron will is mandatory for injured hiding, and not everyone has self care. Just make it a smidge quieter, maybe strider will ACTUALLY HAVE A USE.No no and no.
4 seconds on BBQ is just fine. The only thing I agree is that Billy/Nurse can cheese it slightly because they move so fast, which is why the aura should disappear if you move X distance from the hook, something no other killer but Billy/Nurse can do (and any potential future fast killers). That solves that specific issue without ruining BBQ.
I play Jake, almost exclusively, and I have no problem hiding from the killer. Again I'm not attempting to crouch in some bush near him, I stay out of line of sight. You are making a mountain out of a molehill here.
Hearing them breathe is a legit way to find people. If you are so close to the killer that they can hear you breathe then you are, again, doing stealth wrong. And good killers that pay attention to the sounds should be rewarded. As a rank 1 killer I'm sure you are aware of how ######### the sounds are currently for killer. Footsteps barely make noise when running, breathing is quiet AF unless you are like 2m away, even stuff like trying to hear a totem or a gen is a PITA because you don't hear stuff until you are super close.
Stridor should get a buff anyway. It shouldn't be required if you want the basic ability to hear.
Like really playing stealthy is not hard. If you have a Billy with BBQ that loves to cross map, then either be REALLY far away, or within BBQ then leave.
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@Jack11803 said:
Steath by definition is ANYTHING that causes you to avoid detection. It’s not walking away, it’s literally anything that involves plan A) not starting a chase, or plan a chase started but juking the killerThis is only valid if such a tactic actually works. Sitting in a bush hoping the killer doesn't see you only works against dumb killers. Therefore the only REAL stealth in this game is the kind that works more consistently than not. Walking away works 99.9% of the time, only time it doesn't is..... drum roll.... WHEN YOU GET SPOTTED. If you never get spotted the killer has no idea you are there. IDGAF about Whispers, that's a huge area to search.
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@thesuicidefox you say that its only a horror game in theme, and maybe your right depending on the match, but 1 thing is for certain, it is a Thriller. A thriller is a genre where a tense moment of stress makes the audience nervous, and unlike horror where there are big jump-scares, which ease the nerves of viewers and return everyone to the status quo, Thrillers constantly ramp up the tension of their situations, never letting you or the characters relax. As you and your teammates are systematically chased down and hooked, and as you do a generator, looking around, un-aware of where the killer is. Ultimately though, I can tell that, no-offense to you, but this debate isn't gonna end, we will continue to disagree, so I purpose a compromise, ill run a SC build stealth for the next 40 games, recording how we did, my emblems and my teammate's BP and perks. If there is a non-significant difference between games with mainly High Agro teammates, and those without High Agro builds, Ill concede the point, but vise-versa. If you are worried about my skill Level, I would purpose that you or anyone who is suspect of either of our arguments run a similar experiment. Once we get hard data on Builds and Win % to Hook %, then it'll become clear as day which is correct. Even if you say No, I will be conducting this experiment and will be posting the results by at the latest July the 15th.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Jack11803 said:
Okay, I’m rank 1 killer, stealth needs a few small buff, but mainly QOL changes. 1) BBQ 3 seconds. Basically same strength on normal killers, you ping their general area. However it greatly weakens Billy’s cheese with it. Goo. 2) Male characters, make them actually crouch like they’re trying to hide. Currently they spread their arms, and just hunch really hard. Meanwhile meg and claudette actually go down low. Yes, the male characters are taller, but they don’t even TRY to crouch. 3) Make breathing quieter. I hear it all the time, when someone’s immersed near me. “Headphones OP PLS NERF” aside, this isn’t about what you said, hiding at a predictable spot, I mean I’m just walking across to patrol, a hear a super heavy sigh from a survivor. And for some reason, heavy breathing from running stays with you the whole game. Healthy breathing should honestly only be heard with strider, or after a big sprint. For injured, it should be a BIT quieter, but not by much. Currently iron will is mandatory for injured hiding, and not everyone has self care. Just make it a smidge quieter, maybe strider will ACTUALLY HAVE A USE.No no and no.
4 seconds on BBQ is just fine. The only thing I agree is that Billy/Nurse can cheese it slightly because they move so fast, which is why the aura should disappear if you move X distance from the hook, something no other killer but Billy/Nurse can do (and any potential future fast killers). That solves that specific issue without ruining BBQ.
I play Jake, almost exclusively, and I have no problem hiding from the killer. Again I'm not attempting to crouch in some bush near him, I stay out of line of sight. You are making a mountain out of a molehill here.
Hearing them breathe is a legit way to find people. If you are so close to the killer that they can hear you breathe then you are, again, doing stealth wrong. And good killers that pay attention to the sounds should be rewarded. As a rank 1 killer I'm sure you are aware of how ######### the sounds are currently for killer. Footsteps barely make noise when running, breathing is quiet AF unless you are like 2m away, even stuff like trying to hear a totem or a gen is a PITA because you don't hear stuff until you are super close.
Stridor should get a buff anyway. It shouldn't be required if you want the basic ability to hear.
Like really playing stealthy is not hard. If you have a Billy with BBQ that loves to cross map, then either be REALLY far away, or within BBQ then leave.
Ok. 1) You’re bbq idea is surperior, when ever I suggest a change, instead of 3 seconds, it’ll be that. 2) MUH EQUALITY. 3) I still think, AS LONG AS YOUR NOT IN SOME DUMB CORNER NEXT TO AN OBJECTIVE, it should be possible to avoid the killer within 8m if them. If you get caught hiding at a gen, then yeah, change your gameplay, that’s stupid.
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Unfortunatley,. at this time I've been awake for 20 hours and don't want to play or want to muddle the data im getting with sloppy play, so I'll just Put what I have now until I get more data tomorrow, any issues contact me and I'll update them for the Next list
Perk Build:Spine Chill-3, Urban Evasion-2, Empathy-3, Self Care-3
Gens Completed: (4);(5);(5);
Survivors Hooked:(4);(3); (3);
Emblem Points: (9);(5);(4);
Ally 1 Perks: (Make it-3, Self-3, Sprint-3, Thyself-3); (light-3, Adren-3, Dead-3, Self-1);(Adren-3, Lithe-3, Balanced-3, Iron-3);
Ally 1 BP: (11.5K);(20K);(18.5K);
Ally 2 Perks: (Sprint-2, Self-3, Urban-3, Bond-3);(Lithe-3, Adren-3, Self-1, Balanced-2);(Self-3, Sprint-3, Bond-3, Sabo-3);
Ally 2 BP: (16.5K);(21K);(18.5K);
Ally 3 Perks: (Sprint-3, Self-3, Urban-3, Bond-3);(Lithe-3, Make it-3, Self-3, Urban-3);)(Self-3, Adren-3, BT-3, Bond-3);
Ally 3 BP: (Left at start, No BP);(16K);(17K)
Killer Perks: (Ruin-3, Than-2, BBQ-2, M&A-3);(Strenght-3, Boldness-3, Whispers-3, Unnerving-3);(Overcharge-1, Unnerving-2, Whispers-2);
Killer BP: (18.5K);(18.5K);(16.5K)
Killer Character: (Hag);(Trapper);(Doctor);0 -
Apologies for the delay, im still working on the list, but due to some problems im having with my computer I haven't been able to finish it as soon as i wanted. ill post it as soon as its done and it shouldn't take long
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