Stealth. Viability in the current Meta
Comments
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@powerbats said:
Wait what do you play in that face camping hasn't existed for quite some time now because Billy would like a word with you.And Leatherface...
I guess we just forgot him.
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@powerbats said:
@Orion said:
Also, just FYI, face camping has not existed for quite some time now.
Wait what do you play in that face camping hasn't existed for quite some time now because Billy would like a word with you.
Can any Killer block the unhook prompt? No, not since the "swivel hook" update. Therefore, facecamping does not exist. Survivor-speak is not English; you'd do well to learn the proper terminology.
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@Orion said:
Can any Killer block the unhook prompt? No, not since the "swivel hook" update. Therefore, facecamping does not exist. Survivor-speak is not English; you'd do well to learn the proper terminology.That just means that you cannot Facecamp to block the hook prompt, not that it no longer exists.
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@Orion said:
@powerbats said:
@Orion said:
Also, just FYI, face camping has not existed for quite some time now.
Wait what do you play in that face camping hasn't existed for quite some time now because Billy would like a word with you.
Can any Killer block the unhook prompt? No, not since the "swivel hook" update. Therefore, facecamping does not exist. Survivor-speak is not English; you'd do well to learn the proper terminology.
Apparently you've been missing teh reverse facecamping, it's called butt camping but it's the same thing. You just stand in the same place and turn around. Also I've had killers face camp me before and prevent anyone from unhooking me post 2.0 patch so yes it does still exist.
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You know, cosmetics play a role in stealth too. It's much easier to hide as a P3 Claudette than a Gypsy Claudette.
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@JammyJewels said:
You know, cosmetics play a role in stealth too. It's much easier to hide as a P3 Claudette than a Gypsy Claudette.I find as a Claudette main i'm actually easier to find as P3 then a Meg P3 with good outfit combinations. Her model is smaller and with the right outfit she's pretty much invisible compared to a P3 Claudette in the same area.
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@powerbats said:
@JammyJewels said:
You know, cosmetics play a role in stealth too. It's much easier to hide as a P3 Claudette than a Gypsy Claudette.I find as a Claudette main i'm actually easier to find as P3 then a Meg P3 with good outfit combinations. Her model is smaller and with the right outfit she's pretty much invisible compared to a P3 Claudette in the same area.
Hm. I'll have to test this. I imagine it's even harder to pick her out due to the darkening of her default hair.
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Wow, OK guys, god this blew up, from 1 comment to 55. Jesus, but I looked through and I want to address some things on both sides, and im sorry if I missed some, im happy to add more, if it makes the game better. but first things first we gotta agree to ...
1) STOP BEING MEAN! this is a place for discussion, we are not gonna reach an civil end if we call each other idiots all day
2) Viability with perk-less runs, means that (at least in my opinion) that you should be able to do well and win games without perks. and yes, you very well can, but is it easier or harder to win with DS? perks make the job easier for those who equip it but it shouldn't be so insane that not running those perks is like shooting your toe and trying to run a marathon, you can do it, but its gonna hurt like hell
3) Killer perks =/= survivor perks. Every survivor perk is shared by 4 people, so an average survivor perk should be about 1/4 the strength of a killer perk, to keep the balance, so personally, as someone who sees even great perks like BBQ and chili able to be debated on whether its better than Sprint Burst and DS, that's worrying
4) BBQ and Chili, yes, its 40 meters, which seems like alot from a mathamatical situation, but take a screanshot of the average location, and you'll find about 4-5 hiding spots for the survivors, and the ability to take out most of those is the marks of a good killer, which means at high ranks you'll often find killers who know where your hiding by knowing where your NOT hiding.
5) yes, I agree that people can still pull of the stealth game, but their is a part that your forgetting about, your teamtes! are your teamates running stealth builds to or are they pallet looping the killer, and letting you as a team get 3 gens? most people are probably running with High Agro perks, and this allows the occasional person to stealth, but in 100 games with 50 playing all stealth and 50 playing all Agro, you'll find more survivors in the high agro just due to the current power, there is a reason why DS is so highly valued and its not because of how stealthy it makes you look XD
6) god this is getting long huh? sry but im commenting on EVERYTHING
7) I have heard alot of if you hear the heardbeat don't heal from fear of NS, but its a risk reward, if you heal, they could find you, if you dont, you could be found and insta-downed. thats why the most common way at least that I find that most people use Self-care is they get the killer to chase them, get hit and finally escape from the killer. The killer gets into another chase and they heal back up, thats not stealth, thats more of the neutral side, hint to why i put it there (i can make a list of the perks and where i put them if it really gets contentious)
8)Spine chill, sure it works well, but that kinda is what the heartbeat is for, and the only one I can see it being useful against is billy, Nurse will telport into range, Doctor terror raduis will be much larger, and pretty much everything else has an easier counter than Spine chill, Myers/freddy/leather/trapper/Wraith/hag are done by looping, Doctor comes down to smart plays, whether it be in or out of stealth (just is much harder in stealth) and Huntress is done by breaking LOS and jukes. While you can run it and Billy is a big part of the Meta, there are simply better perks even for running stealth
9) Sorry if i forgot something, but ill be happy to answer anything that pertains to improving this game and the balance, because i remember when their were only 3 killers, and i remember shitting myself, worried that i would be next, and I LOVED IT! that tense feeling is why i play this game, and its just sad to see killers rage because everyone is running DS and then get harassed at the end for "tunneling and camping" (don't start the debate here, just wanted to explain my reason why )
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@Mc_Harty said:
@Orion said:
Can any Killer block the unhook prompt? No, not since the "swivel hook" update. Therefore, facecamping does not exist. Survivor-speak is not English; you'd do well to learn the proper terminology.That just means that you cannot Facecamp to block the hook prompt, not that it no longer exists.
That's the definition of facecamping - blocking the unhook prompt. If it's no longer possible, then it no longer exists.
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Pallet looping no longer exists because the pallet vacuum is gone.Orion said:That's the definition of facecamping - blocking the unhook prompt. If it's no longer possible, then it no longer exists.
That's basically your argument. Last time I checked it was still possible to camp right in front of someones face regardless of whether or not you can blocked the hook prompt.
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@Mc_Harty said:
Orion said:That's the definition of facecamping - blocking the unhook prompt. If it's no longer possible, then it no longer exists.
Pallet looping no longer exists because the pallet vacuum is gone.
That's basically your argument. Last time I checked it was still possible to camp right in front of someones face regardless of whether or not you can blocked the hook prompt.
Except "pallet looping" was not defined as "pallet vacuum". "Face camping" was defined as "standing in such a way that the unhook prompt is unavailable for the Survivors". It was an exploit that was fixed by the "swivel hook" update.
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@Orion said:
Except "pallet looping" was not defined as "pallet vacuum". "Face camping" was defined as "standing in such a way that the unhook prompt is unavailable for the Survivors". It was an exploit that was fixed by the "swivel hook" update.We can argue the community definition all we want but here's the reality of it;
- Facecamping blocked the unhooked prompt.
- Developers added options for the survivors for a multi unhook swivel
- Facecamping now no longer blocks the unhook prompt.
- Its is still possible to Facecamp, its not possible to Facecamp to block the unhook prompt.
I am still able to stand 1 meter away from a survivor and perform the Facecamping action.
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@Orion said:
@Mc_Harty said:
@Orion said:
Can any Killer block the unhook prompt? No, not since the "swivel hook" update. Therefore, facecamping does not exist. Survivor-speak is not English; you'd do well to learn the proper terminology.That just means that you cannot Facecamp to block the hook prompt, not that it no longer exists.
That's the definition of facecamping - blocking the unhook prompt. If it's no longer possible, then it no longer exists.
Actually it’s not gone. With certain killer, LIKE HILLBILLY, you can spam rev his chainsaw, and slowly phase into someone, blocking the prompt. This was tested. Devs won’t fix it because for that, they have to either make killer hit boxes smaller (360 galore) or give survivors an unhook vacuum (lol ew)
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@Mc_Harty said:
@Orion said:
Except "pallet looping" was not defined as "pallet vacuum". "Face camping" was defined as "standing in such a way that the unhook prompt is unavailable for the Survivors". It was an exploit that was fixed by the "swivel hook" update.We can argue the community definition all we want but here's the reality of it;
- Facecamping blocked the unhooked prompt.
- Developers added options for the survivors for a multi unhook swivel
- Facecamping now no longer blocks the unhook prompt.
- Its is still possible to Facecamp, its not possible to Facecamp to block the unhook prompt.
I am still able to stand 1 meter away from a survivor and perform the Facecamping action.
It's not face camping if it doesn't block the unhook prompt. That's just "camping". Deal with it.
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@Orion said:
@Mc_Harty said:
@Orion said:
Except "pallet looping" was not defined as "pallet vacuum". "Face camping" was defined as "standing in such a way that the unhook prompt is unavailable for the Survivors". It was an exploit that was fixed by the "swivel hook" update.We can argue the community definition all we want but here's the reality of it;
- Facecamping blocked the unhooked prompt.
- Developers added options for the survivors for a multi unhook swivel
- Facecamping now no longer blocks the unhook prompt.
- Its is still possible to Facecamp, its not possible to Facecamp to block the unhook prompt.
I am still able to stand 1 meter away from a survivor and perform the Facecamping action.
It's not face camping if it doesn't block the unhook prompt. That's just "camping". Deal with it.
Only problem is face camping is still VERY possible.
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@Jack11803 said:
@Orion said:
@Mc_Harty said:
@Orion said:
Except "pallet looping" was not defined as "pallet vacuum". "Face camping" was defined as "standing in such a way that the unhook prompt is unavailable for the Survivors". It was an exploit that was fixed by the "swivel hook" update.We can argue the community definition all we want but here's the reality of it;
- Facecamping blocked the unhooked prompt.
- Developers added options for the survivors for a multi unhook swivel
- Facecamping now no longer blocks the unhook prompt.
- Its is still possible to Facecamp, its not possible to Facecamp to block the unhook prompt.
I am still able to stand 1 meter away from a survivor and perform the Facecamping action.
It's not face camping if it doesn't block the unhook prompt. That's just "camping". Deal with it.
Only problem is face camping is still VERY possible.
With ONE Killer, and it requires an exploit that, according to you, takes some time to perform.
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Except that's not what pallet looping is, again. Just because some people call any console "Nintendo" or any Pokémon "Pikachu" doesn't mean all consoles are "Nintendo" nor that all Pokémon are "Pikachu".
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@Orion said:
Except that's not what pallet looping is, again. Just because some people call any console "Nintendo" or any Pokémon "Pikachu" doesn't mean all consoles are "Nintendo" nor that all Pokémon are "Pikachu".Your entire premise on why Facecamping no longer exists is because an unintentional mechanic that was removed.
I am still able to perform Facecamping on survivors. I cannot block the hook prompt now when I do however.
Doesn't change the fact I can still camp in front of a survivors face.
Sorry that the name fits the action buddy.
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@Mc_Harty said:
@Orion said:
Except that's not what pallet looping is, again. Just because some people call any console "Nintendo" or any Pokémon "Pikachu" doesn't mean all consoles are "Nintendo" nor that all Pokémon are "Pikachu".Your entire premise on why Facecamping no longer exists is because an unintentional mechanic that was removed.
I am still able to perform Facecamping on survivors. I cannot block the hook prompt now when I do however.
Doesn't change the fact I can still camp in front of a survivors face.
Sorry that the name fits the action buddy.
And if the etymology of a word always fit its definition, we wouldn't need dictionaries. Fact is, that's not face camping.
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I stated that the etymological origins of a word don't necessarily match its actual definition. Maybe you need a dictionary.
Face camping is blocking the unhook prompt, it's an exploit. Everything else is just camping, which is fine.
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@Orion said:
I stated that the etymological origins of a word don't necessarily match its actual definition. Maybe you need a dictionary.Face camping is blocking the unhook prompt, it's an exploit. Everything else is just camping, which is fine.
Etymology;
the study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history.
So what make your definition of Facecamping the right definition?
Btw I have no problem with camping. Dunno why you assumed otherwise.
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@Mc_Harty said:
@Orion said:
I stated that the etymological origins of a word don't necessarily match its actual definition. Maybe you need a dictionary.Face camping is blocking the unhook prompt, it's an exploit. Everything else is just camping, which is fine.
Etymology;
the study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history.
So what make your definition of Facecamping the right definition?
Btw I have no problem with camping. Dunno why you assumed otherwise.
"My" definition is the definition; the one adopted by developers and community alike way back when face camping started to become a problem. Trying to redefine terms won't change the fact that face camping is an exploit wherein the other Survivors do not get the "unhook" prompt. Everything else is just camping.
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@Orion said:
"My" definition is the definition; the one adopted by developers and community alike way back when face camping started to become a problem. Trying to redefine terms won't change the fact that face camping is an exploit wherein the other Survivors do not get the "unhook" prompt. Everything else is just camping.They removed an exploit relating to Facecamping.
As I mentioned above you can still Facecamp the survivor on the hook. The devs didn't remove the killers ability to camp the survivor less then a meter away from his face. You can still perform the action.
What don't you get about this?
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@Mc_Harty said:
@Orion said:
"My" definition is the definition; the one adopted by developers and community alike way back when face camping started to become a problem. Trying to redefine terms won't change the fact that face camping is an exploit wherein the other Survivors do not get the "unhook" prompt. Everything else is just camping.They removed an exploit relating to Facecamping.
As I mentioned above you can still Facecamp the survivor on the hook. The devs didn't remove the killers ability to camp the survivor less then a meter away from his face. You can still perform the action.
What don't you get about this?
Face camping was the exploit. What don't you get about that?
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@Orion said:
Face camping was the exploit. What don't you get about that?So why am I still able to camp less then a meter in front of their face? They didn't remove that function.
I'm saying that despite Facecamping is no longer possible to block the unhook prompt you can still do perform the action.
Jesus Christ.
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Face camping was the ability to block the unhook prompt. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?
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@Orion said:
And it's also how "face camping" is defined.You're not arguing, you're just trying to change definitions.
Facecamping was defined because the killer would camp in front of the survivors face.
And we are squabbling over it.
You're not going to change your mind and nether am I.
So I'm done arguing my points.
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@Mc_Harty said:
@Orion said:
And it's also how "face camping" is defined.You're not arguing, you're just trying to change definitions.
Facecamping was defined because the killer would camp in front of the survivors face.
And we are squabbling over it.
You're not going to change your mind and nether am I.
So I'm done arguing my points.
Face camping was named because the Killer would camp in front of the Survivor's face, but was defined as the exploit that blocked the unhook prompt.
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Dudes for real. Dont be like this.I get arguing as a means of proving one self but when it becomes this nasty and mean it then needs to stop. This. THIS is the true reason why this game suffers. please, talk like civilized people.
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@ACoolName said:
Dudes for real. Dont be like this.I get arguing as a means of proving one self but when it becomes this nasty and mean it then needs to stop. This. THIS is the true reason why this game suffers. please, talk like civilized people.Prove thyself buff when!?
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Dats da Jack179804948556085832708756 I know and appreciate> @Jack11803 said:
@ACoolName said:
Dudes for real. Dont be like this.I get arguing as a means of proving one self but when it becomes this nasty and mean it then needs to stop. This. THIS is the true reason why this game suffers. please, talk like civilized people.Prove thyself buff when!?
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Lololololololol at this post and everything past the halfway mark on it0
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@Orion said:
Except "pallet looping" was not defined as "pallet vacuum". "Face camping" was defined as "standing in such a way that the unhook prompt is unavailable for the Survivors". It was an exploit that was fixed by the "swivel hook" update.Swivel hook fixed the specific instance of not getting an unhook prompt because the killer was standing in the trigger zone, but come on really dude? You are going to deny that a killer can't still just sit there and hit the guy as he is being saved? Or grab the guy doing the save? It's still an unwinnable situation.
The specific details of "face camping" are irrelevant because the discussion is around saving someone when the killer is standing right there. Borrowed Time is the only thing that can do something in this situation, and ONLY IF YOU GET THE UNHOOK! Every player needs to swarm the hook with BT for the guy to have any sort of chance to escape, and even then it's honestly slim. I've seen so many games, as survivor and killer, go completely FUBAR because everyone tries to save 1 guy like that. It's obscene how that rewards the killer so much. They go from barely a 1k to a guaranteed 4k. "Oh it's the survivors mistake for..." what? Trying to save someone? Chances are high they are doing it for the emblem, because you putting the guy on the hook and sitting there LITERALLY DEPIPS THEM. They have to save the guy if they want to pip, especially if you were such an awful killer that this is the one and only hook you had all game. Unless they never went down and did 3 gens by themselves, they won't pip that game unless they save the guy. The game forces them to make the save, and killers that exploit that get rewarded so insanely much for doing almost nothing. Every YT/stream has said in a video or on stream that camping is EASY. And it's rewarding. The 1 time survivors don't fall for it and just do all the gens and leave is completely outshined by the 50 other times survivors attempted to make a save and you got an easy 3k/4k.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Orion said:
Except "pallet looping" was not defined as "pallet vacuum". "Face camping" was defined as "standing in such a way that the unhook prompt is unavailable for the Survivors". It was an exploit that was fixed by the "swivel hook" update.Swivel hook fixed the specific instance of not getting an unhook prompt because the killer was standing in the trigger zone, but come on really dude? You are going to deny that a killer can't still just sit there and hit the guy as he is being saved? Or grab the guy doing the save? It's still an unwinnable situation.
The specific details of "face camping" are irrelevant because the discussion is around saving someone when the killer is standing right there. Borrowed Time is the only thing that can do something in this situation, and ONLY IF YOU GET THE UNHOOK! Every player needs to swarm the hook with BT for the guy to have any sort of chance to escape, and even then it's honestly slim. I've seen so many games, as survivor and killer, go completely FUBAR because everyone tries to save 1 guy like that. It's obscene how that rewards the killer so much. They go from barely a 1k to a guaranteed 4k. "Oh it's the survivors mistake for..." what? Trying to save someone? Chances are high they are doing it for the emblem, because you putting the guy on the hook and sitting there LITERALLY DEPIPS THEM. They have to save the guy if they want to pip, especially if you were such an awful killer that this is the one and only hook you had all game. Unless they never went down and did 3 gens by themselves, they won't pip that game unless they save the guy. The game forces them to make the save, and killers that exploit that get rewarded so insanely much for doing almost nothing. Every YT/stream has said in a video or on stream that camping is EASY. And it's rewarding. The 1 time survivors don't fall for it and just do all the gens and leave is completely outshined by the 50 other times survivors attempted to make a save and you got an easy 3k/4k.
Yes, it's the Survivors' mistake for going to where the Killer is and expecting to be able to walk all over them. I don't care how you justify it, if you go to where the Killer is, he's supposed to be able to stomp. That's an asymmetrical game - either the entire weak side gangs up on the strong side and there's a 50/50 chance they succeed at whatever they're doing, or they don't gang up and they lose.
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@Darckshado9 said:
4) BBQ and Chili, yes, its 40 meters, which seems like alot from a mathamatical situation, but take a screanshot of the average location, and you'll find about 4-5 hiding spots for the survivors, and the ability to take out most of those is the marks of a good killer, which means at high ranks you'll often find killers who know where your hiding by knowing where your NOT hiding.Then hide where they think your not hiding? I mean really if you can read a killer you can predict what they will do and easily bait them into doing it. I've been on both giving and receiving end of that. Other day I had a game against a Billy that just KNEW what I was gonna do. He caught me twice, legit full health no tunneling or nothing, in the first 2 minutes of the game. But then something clicked and I realized he was expecting me to play like a rank 1, so I started to play like a rank 20. I would run to a loop, make him think I'm gonna loop, then just flat out run away to so random corner of the map with no pallets. By the time he realized, I'm through the wide open field he coulda easily chainsawed me and almost to another juggle gym. I stretched out the last chase for 3 whole gens, it was like a 5 minute chase easy. He eventually got me, but the point is that you can easily beat this if you know what the killer sees and think how the killer thinks. In competitive gaming that's called a 'read'.
@Darckshado9 said:
5) yes, I agree that people can still pull of the stealth game, but their is a part that your forgetting about, your teamtes! are your teamates running stealth builds to or are they pallet looping the killer, and letting you as a team get 3 gens? most people are probably running with High Agro perks, and this allows the occasional person to stealth, but in 100 games with 50 playing all stealth and 50 playing all Agro, you'll find more survivors in the high agro just due to the current power, there is a reason why DS is so highly valued and its not because of how stealthy it makes you look XDDude I've stealth games where all 3 of the other guys were trading hooks with BBQ and I was running back and forth saving them. I'd be the only one alive after a point and the killer still has never seen me, never found me with BBQ. I hide, and I make smart choices. I don't get predictable. I stealth and get lots of unhooks. Then die because no gens were done and I'm not going to bother doing them if I already pipped.
@Darckshado9 said:
8)Spine chill, sure it works well, but that kinda is what the heartbeat is for, and the only one I can see it being useful against is billy, Nurse will telport into range, Doctor terror raduis will be much larger, and pretty much everything else has an easier counter than Spine chill, Myers/freddy/leather/trapper/Wraith/hag are done by looping, Doctor comes down to smart plays, whether it be in or out of stealth (just is much harder in stealth) and Huntress is done by breaking LOS and jukes. While you can run it and Billy is a big part of the Meta, there are simply better perks even for running stealthSpine Chill literally beats everything except Myers EW1. It is 1000% useful against every killer. Let's you know when Billy or Nurse is about to saw/blink to your position. Let's you know Hag/Myers EW2/Wraith/Freddy/crouched Pig are coming to you before you hear a hearbeat. Against Doc let's you know if the heartbeat you hear is real or not by whether it's flashing/staying lit. It beats Insidious, M&A, NC, BBQ. It is the absolute best "stealth" perk in the game because it gives you so much information about the killer's activity you can just avoid them all game. Like I said before, if you are doing a gen and it lights up, just walk away, completely away. STEALTH ACHIEVED. It's not that hard. You are honestly a fool if you think you can hide near a gen that's >75% done until the killer leaves. No they will search the area thoroughly and if it's a good killer they will find you. Don't give them the chance, just leave. Find another gen.
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@Orion said:
Yes, it's the Survivors' mistake for going to where the Killer is and expecting to be able to walk all over them. I don't care how you justify it, if you go to where the Killer is, he's supposed to be able to stomp. That's an asymmetrical game - either the entire weak side gangs up on the strong side and there's a 50/50 chance they succeed at whatever they're doing, or they don't gang up and they lose.IT IS NOT A MISTAKE IF THEY ARE FORCED TO SAVE HIM.
Benevolence forces you to save people on first and second hooks, or else you depip. Killers exploit this. With the old survivor rank system based on BP, YES it is entirely the survivors fault for dying trying to save, but they also weren't forced to make the save either. They could punish the killer for camping by doing gens. But with emblems that backfires on survivors and they will depip or at best get a safety pip. Killers depip too but some people are so spiteful they would do that with no problem. When a killer can depip an entire lobby by just standing somewhere THAT IS A PROBLEM.
Also, gen rush is quite a bit worse now because of emblems too. You need to do 1 whole gen by yourself for silver Lightbringer, which is absolutely necessary to pip. Survivors gen rush each other now, not just the killer.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Orion said:
Yes, it's the Survivors' mistake for going to where the Killer is and expecting to be able to walk all over them. I don't care how you justify it, if you go to where the Killer is, he's supposed to be able to stomp. That's an asymmetrical game - either the entire weak side gangs up on the strong side and there's a 50/50 chance they succeed at whatever they're doing, or they don't gang up and they lose.IT IS NOT A MISTAKE IF THEY ARE FORCED TO SAVE HIM.
Benevolence forces you to save people on first and second hooks, or else you depip. Killers exploit this. With the old survivor rank system based on BP, YES it is entirely the survivors fault for dying trying to save, but they also weren't forced to make the save either. They could punish the killer for camping by doing gens. But with emblems that backfires on survivors and they will depip or at best get a safety pip. Killers depip too but some people are so spiteful they would do that with no problem. When a killer can depip an entire lobby by just standing somewhere THAT IS A PROBLEM.
Also, gen rush is quite a bit worse now because of emblems too. You need to do 1 whole gen by yourself for silver Lightbringer, which is absolutely necessary to pip. Survivors gen rush each other now, not just the killer.
I know it's possible to pip without throwing yourself to the Killer. I also know it's possible to rescue from any Killer in any situation, provided you play smart. Last but not least, camping is entirely a Survivor-created problem. This is the problem they created by feeding campers. Now it's up to them to fix it.
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Mc_Harty, Orion, question, what is the name of this thread? oh ya, its the viability in stealth, you wanna jerk yourselves off to the exact definition of facecamping, go ahead and start a thread, but thats not what most people who are coming here want to know. Here are the facts, while you Speciffically may not call it face camping, yes, people can still stand right next to hooked survivors and if survivors are gonna keep falling for it, ya i give it a green light. if you don't want things to happen, work to make it not happen. now onto the actual reason i wrote this XD
Now, Suicide, I appreciate that your tending to stay on the reason i wrote this unlike others but honestly, its not just possible its likely that you can pip from a camper, 1) all stats will be based on ranking up, so no safety pips, even though it would make it easier, but you can't get to rank 1 safety pipping. 2) you need 9 points of emblems to pip, and emblems points are ranked 1-4 points 3) With the 3 other emblems you only need golds in them, which involves getting 2 gens, escaping, and hearing a heartbeat for about 30 seconds (estimation, math is very case-by-case). while i wouldn't call this a walk in the park, how many times do you do these things? I'd guess relatively often. 4) Finally an end to literally the entire debate on people camping hooks, if you keep running into camping killers, RUN BT, the time stops the penalty for farming a survivor and will give you altruism (emblem not BP stat) points. No clue why people love to complain about camping then ignore when the devs give you a perk to counter it XD
Also, for your comments on my comments Suicide
@thesuicidefox said:
Then hide where they think your not hiding? I mean really if you can read a killer you can predict what they will do and easily bait them into doing it. I've been on both giving and receiving end of that. Other day I had a game against a Billy that just KNEW what I was gonna do. He caught me twice, legit full health no tunneling or nothing, in the first 2 minutes of the game. But then something clicked and I realized he was expecting me to play like a rank 1, so I started to play like a rank 20. I would run to a loop, make him think I'm gonna loop, then just flat out run away to so random corner of the map with no pallets. By the time he realized, I'm through the wide open field he could easily chainsawed me and almost to another juggle gym. I stretched out the last chase for 3 whole gens, it was like a 5 minute chase easy. He eventually got me, but the point is that you can easily beat this if you know what the killer sees and think how the killer thinks. In competitive gaming that's called a 'read'.There is a difference between reading and game knowledge. most of your comment is about reading in a chase, which is completely different, as i was focused on stealth. and there are restrictions to where you can hide, like where you were when they were downed, what direction they went, Land barriers. A good killer is one that knows that 2 or 3 gens are in a given direction and without seeing anyone on BBQ can take a pretty good guess that they are in that location. Also, the wooden boards with literal open holes doesn't help either
@thesuicidefox said:
Dude I've stealth games where all 3 of the other guys were trading hooks with BBQ and I was running back and forth saving them. I'd be the only one alive after a point and the killer still has never seen me, never found me with BBQ. I hide, and I make smart choices. I don't get predictable. I stealth and get lots of unhooks. Then die because no gens were done and I'm not going to bother doing them if I already pipped.>
Your proving my point, your teammates were in chases (while short ones) and were distracting the killer while you "stealthed" around. not sure what you were trying to prove here, but if stealth really was as viable as i believe it should be, your teammates shouldn't be getting hooked as often as they are and letting you pip from altruism, boldness, without doing gens, as by your own Admission "No gens were done"@thesuicidefox said:
Spine Chill literally beats everything except Myers EW1. It is 1000% useful against every killer. Let's you know when Billy or Nurse is about to saw/blink to your position. Let's you know Hag/Myers EW2/Wraith/Freddy/crouched Pig are coming to you before you hear a heartbeat. Against Doc let's you know if the heartbeat you hear is real or not by whether it's flashing/staying lit. It beats Insidious, M&A, NC, BBQ. It is the absolute best "stealth" perk in the game because it gives you so much information about the killer's activity you can just avoid them all game. Like I said before, if you are doing a gen and it lights up, just walk away, completely away. STEALTH ACHIEVED. It's not that hard. You are honestly a fool if you think you can hide near a gen that's >75% done until the killer leaves. No they will search the area thoroughly and if it's a good killer they will find you. Don't give them the chance, just leave. Find another gen.While I admit, that the pig is one where spine chill would be useful that i overlooked, Freddy can be coming from any direction, so knowing he is looking for you only makes you aware your about to be put to sleep, which the nodding head and song do already, Wraith has a similar problem, the only upside from Freddy being you can look for his shimmering form, which a majority of good players are already doing, as they are always (or most of the time) aware of their surroundings. Myers is an interesting story, as most of the time you'll either face a mirror Myers, as that is really strong and just breaks stealth and even ur spine chill, or you'll have to be worried about Tier 3 Myers. The only big thing with him is if he is in tier 2, you gotta make sure he doesn't get Evil from you, so while you can stealth that, if you don't know his location its still difficult and really just not worth using a perk spot. and if you're worried about Myers because he keeps getting evil quickly, be more mad at your team feeding it to him than trying to counter it. Hag is just terrible, and the big part of the hag, and while yes, stealth is strong against her, and SC may very well help, its the hag dude, your not gonna be playing against serious hag players higher up, in rank 10 i don't even see her XD. also, for the perks, Insidious is really only used in the basement, and I don't know about you, but i always am prepared for an insidious camper, and its not hard
to counter it even going perk-less, Insidious isn't that good unless your facing noobs. NC will most likely trigger before SC and your reaction to stop healing, and then it doesn't matter (and as for not healing, i mentioned, its a risk as it means if you are found, its 1 hit), BBQ is outside of a 40 meter range, and SC is within a 32 meter range, so how exactly does it counter it? M&A does get countered by it, sure, but personally, if i was worried about killers with small terror radii, who am i playing against? Billy, again, which i said it was good against, Nurse wouldn't, an Doctor wouldn't. The only on meta killer is billy and if your fighting an off-meta killer, well, they are off-meta for a reason, its because their not great. Also, Nurse blink is 20 meters, so its not even unlikely for her to pop within your SC range, and how well can you stealth a killer when they are 12 meters from you?Finally SC is def not the best stealth perk, its Urban, not even a question man, the ability to go at walking distance while shrinking your Player Character down to half the size is an invaluable tool.
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@Darckshado9 said:
There is a difference between reading and game knowledge. most of your comment is about reading in a chase, which is completely different, as i was focused on stealth. and there are restrictions to where you can hide, like where you were when they were downed, what direction they went, Land barriers. A good killer is one that knows that 2 or 3 gens are in a given direction and without seeing anyone on BBQ can take a pretty good guess that they are in that location. Also, the wooden boards with literal open holes doesn't help eitherNo you can read a killer when not in a chase. If he doesn't see you on BBQ but expects to see you by the nearest gen, guess where he will check and where you should not be. Have you ever tried that? A good killer will find you if you are around where they expect you to be. They can't find you if you aren't where they expect you to be. Whether that's in a chase or not. For example, I frequently work on random gens for like 2 seconds just to start them then just flat out leave. Why? Because when the killer comes up they will think someone is there and waste time. But I'm not there. If I was there I would be walking away.
You make it sound like the killer just knows where you are all the time. They don't. Good killers guess where you are, and if you are always thinking "be by a pallet, or window, or gen" then it's pretty obvious why they find you. Unless it's a Scratched Mirror Myers they shouldn't just see you all the time.
You're basically complaining that someone found you hiding under the bed in hide and seek. It's so obvious where you are.
@Darckshado9 said:
While I admit, that the pig is one where spine chill would be useful that i overlooked, Freddy can be coming from any direction, so knowing he is looking for you only makes you aware your about to be put to sleep, which the nodding head and song do already,That's why you keep tabs on what the killer is doing. When did you see them last and where were they? What direction did they go? Did someone just get hooked or injured, well they are probably coming from that direction. That part is easy even against Freddy. SC let's you know that they are looking at you and likely coming towards you so you know to get out sooner rather than later. Again just walk away to somewhere else. So what if the gen was almost done, it's FUBAR now that the killer is there. Watch from a distance if you really want it, but if you hide anywhere in the area a good killer will find you. If you think crouching in a bush near the killer is stealth then you are doing it wrong.
I really don't know what else to tell you. Stealth is 100% viable in this game. You guys that disagree have been shooting down literally every piece of advice I have given you about how to beat detection perks and stay stealthy, to the point that I question how much killer you have played. If you do play killer you would understand how their perspective of the world is and what advantages that gives you since you have a third person camera.
EDIT: "NC will most likely trigger before SC and your reaction to stop healing" No it doesn't. NC tier 3 is 28m. SC tier 3 is 32m. You have almost a second to react and even if you don't, the killer saw you for a fraction of a second and you are 28m, or 7 seconds walking time from them which is plenty of time to move away. Not to mention you could always just play super safe and go really far away to heal if you don't want to be seen by NC. These perks are really easy to counter.
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You can still do the face camp block exploit and not just with Billy, Cannibal, Doctor and Trapper all can still block any unhook attempts. By turning, by using the charge up on chainsaw or doctor by using treatment mode.
Also quit blaming survivors for creating the camping problem by feeding. Since unless the devs made a change to allow survivors to control killers to camp in the 1st place. The root of the problem is survivors get way more points for trying to pip by doing altruistic things. Have a doc that can simply spam treatment with 175% increased range constantly good luck with trying to do gens.
The nurse that can chain 4 blinks together and then do it again 2 seconds later. The billy that can charge up in 1 second and run across the map and in 1 more second do it right back to the hooked person. The tinker changes will certainly help but more than likely will just encourage more camping.
If you combine camping with Ruin and Thanatobia and the new bnp nerfs along with all the other changes camping will still be pretty prevalent. If they get rid of the Altruism emblem and or change it to where survivors have more choices camping won't be so tasty. In fact if they change it so that survivors have more options in how they get points earned ie more objectives you'll see a lot less gen rushing.
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Survivors created the camping problem by feeding campers since the game started. That is a fact. If they hadn't, Killers wouldn't camp as much, even with the Emblem system. Take responsibility, if you're one of those.
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@Orion said:
Survivors created the camping problem by feeding campers since the game started. That is a fact. If they hadn't, Killers wouldn't camp as much, even with the Emblem system. Take responsibility, if you're one of those.Killers created pallet looping by tunneling. Change my mind!
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@Jack11803 said:
@Orion said:
Survivors created the camping problem by feeding campers since the game started. That is a fact. If they hadn't, Killers wouldn't camp as much, even with the Emblem system. Take responsibility, if you're one of those.Killers created pallet looping by tunneling. Change my mind!
People are gonna have to focus at points, because if they just hit people and leave, they will never get hooks, a chase is required and the best situation when in a chase for a survivor is to use pallets and windows. The mechanics of the game itself Dictate it more than Killers
@thesuicidefox said:
No you can read a killer when not in a chase. If he doesn't see you on BBQ but expects to see you by the nearest gen, guess where he will check and where you should not be. Have you ever tried that? A good killer will find you if you are around where they expect you to be. They can't find you if you aren't where they expect you to be. Whether that's in a chase or not. For example, I frequently work on random gens for like 2 seconds just to start them then just flat out leave. Why? Because when the killer comes up they will think someone is there and waste time. But I'm not there. If I was there I would be walking away.You make it sound like the killer just knows where you are all the time. They don't. Good killers guess where you are, and if you are always thinking "be by a pallet, or window, or gen" then it's pretty obvious why they find you. Unless it's a Scratched Mirror Myers they shouldn't just see you all the time.
You're basically complaining that someone found you hiding under the bed in hide and seek. It's so obvious where you are.
1) The Gen trick won't work with those using whispers, a relativity good perk, but it can work well for those who don't run it.
2) No Killer's don't always know where you are, but there are more than enough tools within the game that those with good understanding of mechanics and how they interact can get accurate assessments of people from what they know. Did you just see someone get un-hooked and there are 2 main directions they can go, on with open LOS and one covered in trees? Its an easy guess that the survivors will go running in the direction with more cover so long as there isn't something blocking them from going that way
3) No, what I was mainly complaining about was the fact that you diverted attention from what i was asking to something tangentially related to the topic at hand. And as you appear to be quite the assumptious one, ill tell you this, when i hide, I don't tend to land in the middle ground of an OK hiding spot, as Either I barely slip past a killer with a fast beating heart, or get found instantly, based on how the killer plays. The whole reason I created this thread was because I loved that tense feeling of dread, unknowing if you'll be found, and wanted it to be a more core part of the experience than it is now@thesuicidefox said:
That's why you keep tabs on what the killer is doing. When did you see them last and where were they? What direction did they go? Did someone just get hooked or injured, well they are probably coming from that direction. That part is easy even against Freddy. SC let's you know that they are looking at you and likely coming towards you so you know to get out sooner rather than later. Again just walk away to somewhere else. So what if the gen was almost done, it's FUBAR now that the killer is there. Watch from a distance if you really want it, but if you hide anywhere in the area a good killer will find you. If you think crouching in a bush near the killer is stealth then you are doing it wrong.1) There is only so much you can keep tabs on when your the survivor. I tend to run Empathy with my stealth builds as it helps me locate the position of a chase, and move accordingly, but generally all you'll know without empathy or bond is that Somewhere, a person is in a chase with a killer, and generally that means its safe to do generators.
2) "Did someone Just get hooked... , well they are probably coming from that direction" yes, and that's game knowledge, knowing about how far BBQ range is and being able to understand that you are gonna have to stop doing the gen and move in case the killer comes over, all SC does in that situation is let you know a second earlier.
3) This is anecdotal, but I tend to find Killers don't spend long times searching gens below half, and based on how you've seen him act before, I've seen a great many players easily identify that a person is running Whispers, spies, and other perks based simply on how he moves, but even so, once you've chosen a hiding spot, they tend to be pretty separated from other hiding spots, so you tend to have to ride them out. The ones that allow you to move around the killer and evade them, like the houses in Myer's map, tend to be rare overall and extremely strong.
4) No "crouching in a bus near the killer" isn't stealth, at least not good stealth. Stealth is the ability to lose a killer despite being close to them. as of writing this, i just had a game about an hour ago with a Myers. he had the ability to instant kill me (tombstone, no clue why he didn't use it before me) and it was only me and 2 teammates left, both hooked twice. In our chase the last gen was done and after spending a good 2 minutes looking for the exit gates in Haddenfield, I was able to escape. It wasn't because of pallet looping, and it generally wasn't because of any type of looping. While in the 4 minute chase we had, I did use pallets for a good 45 seconds of it, Most of the time I was able to keep away from using hope, Sprint Burst, Adren (its a end game speed build, fun to play when it works) and occasional tricks to lose him. I'm not saying I was good, Generally I think i should have died there, but the Ability to do that, and the viability of strategies like that is what I want more of in DBD, I feel it would make the game less toxic with less T-baggers waiting to be chased XDI really don't know what else to tell you. Stealth is 100% viable in this game. You guys that disagree have been shooting down literally every piece of advice I have given you about how to beat detection perks and stay stealthy, to the point that I question how much killer you have played. If you do play killer you would understand how their perspective of the world is and what advantages that gives you since you have a third person camera.
1) you shouldn't as a Single survivor be able to "Beat" Killer detection perks, as I already mentioned, based on the asynchronous game-play of DBD, Killer perks should be about 4 times stronger than survivor perks, so a single survivor should do little more than delay a killer, and generally the amount of time you can make a killer waste before he gets you on a hook, either by looping or avoiding him, is the value of a survivor perk.
2) As a matter of fact, I main Killer, I Mainly play Myers, with dips into Killers ranging from Nurse, my secondary, to Leatherface, my guilty Pleasure and first killer. I run Survivor when I'm bored of being pallet looped and generally run off-meta builds like stealth, Obsession Laurie, no Mither, and Sabo. I find the classic looping style of DBD kinda boring, and more a show of technical prowess than an interesting game, and find the other builds a much more taxing and therefore interesting game. Also if your curious how much time I spend as killer, I would say at least 60% of my time as killer, and since as of this moment I have spent 271 Hours in DBD, that means I have played Killer for about 160 Hours. Don't know about you but I'd say that's ample time.EDIT: "NC will most likely trigger before SC and your reaction to stop healing" No it doesn't. NC tier 3 is 28m. SC tier 3 is 32m. You have almost a second to react and even if you don't, the killer saw you for a fraction of a second and you are 28m, or 7 seconds walking time from them which is plenty of time to move away. Not to mention you could always just play super safe and go really far away to heal if you don't want to be seen by NC. These perks are really easy to counter.
I will say i did make a mistake here, but its less the one you complain about, and more i just forgot to include a crucial detail, which i do go into later, The SC NC effect I was mentioning is part of the Killer discussion at the end. I said billy is good, Nurse is the part where i said NS would take effect before you could react, how-ever i spent to much time focused on other topics and completely over-looked this part, which I apologize.
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