Reason why SWF is balanced.
Because just about 90% of the matches (At least from my experience) that have involved random survivors end up with A LOT of mistakes. This happens in all ranks too.
I could list so many mistakes that are made when you play with randoms that I am sure many have experienced. They are not fun.
The amount of DC's both intentional/unintentional, favor the killer, no one else. The game doesn't take it into consideration if someone dc's in the middle of a match, it still expects you to fix 5 generators... sometimes with Ruin, and by yourself because other teammates are hiding behind a tree... and because they don't want to bother with Ruin skill checks so they would rather do the easy thing.... Unhook right as the killer turns their back, heck sometimes they won't even do that.
So until they somehow "fix" solo surviving, SWF is the best option Survivors have. Ultimately I understand some people are still learning and well, I myself still learning. I don't think anyone is perfect at the game, but I do think that there are many instances where you can't depend on a perk or a pallet, but just use common sense.
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not to mention.. survivors get no points for the DCs, but the killer does... how is that fair? solo surviving is a nightmare.. and will be until DCing is punished like other online games.
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@Lumi83 Yeah, I wasn't even going to mention points for the sake of just keeping the discussion about SWF, but you're absolutely right.
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This is why they need separate ranked and casual modes.
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So, it's fine to use SWF to cover up your mistakes, when the game is balanced around Killers being able to capitalize on Survivor mistakes?
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Dude, he has the right to complain about solo surviving. Ranking system sucks, so you will get boosted survivors (I mean actually boosted by SWF) as your teammates. Assuming that every solo survivor's teammates suck, Killer doesn't have to tryhard.
But when you get to red ranks and face an SWF with good survivors, Killer barely gets 2k.
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It's about playing optimally... (i.e. getting rescued at the right times, not just crouching behind a tree when the killer isn't even on you, but actually working on gens) Lately the way the game has been going, I don't trust that random players will do any of those things.
I never once said SWF teams play perfect, you can still "capitalize" on mistakes, I only said that they are balanced considering my experience in matches with random survivors.
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I'm a new rank 12 killer. Just played a match against a 13, another 13, a 2 and a 4. Totally balanced! The rank 2 and 4 just played with me like I was irrelevant.
Going to go work on "getting gud" now....
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I came looking for a well-reasoned argument explaining how SWF is balanced.
The OP didn't even attempt that but instead talked about the problems with playing with randoms. This does not at all address the topic of the thread title.
I broadly agree that solo survivors have issues, especially at low ranks, which need addressing. This does not budge my opinion on SWF at all.
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OR devs could stop caring about low ranks and fix their ranking system.
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I'm not trying to start a figtht but you really think that the reason some people are playing in SWF is because of DCS? I've been victim of a lot of DCs against SWFs and I wasn't even camping or tunneling nobody. They stay mad for no reason!
I won't deny that solo survivor can be one of the worst experiences (dcs, less comunication) in this game but SWF will NEVER be balanced.
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So, because solo queuing sucks, SWF is fine. I love that logic.
Well, Wraith sucks, so Nurse is fine, right? No.
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They actually did for a short while, but then that was too hard so they made ranking as a survivor easy again. But I actually remember the short time period where it was difficult to rank up as both killer and survivor. All the survivors I played against as killer required my full effort. Then shortly after making it easy for survivors to rank again, I was suddenly getting a massive influx of 4K's.
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@PoisonN Considering the amount of DC's , yeah I do believe that. I believe that many people who play with their friends don't do it because of the comms, they do it because of the reliability that you have in SWF.
It doesn't matter the reason they do it, or why they stay mad. It makes the solo survivor experience unbalanced.
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You're comparing two different things there, but thanks for the input.
Consider yourself lucky as a Wraith that you are not dependant on someone else tilting the scales during a match. You would be making the same argument.
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I disagree. 4 people with communication, saying where the killer is, running the ideal perks, toolboxes, insta heals and all is the main reason why everyone is playing SWF. As a solo survivor of course you don't have this luxury so SWF is way more pratical. This game was designed to SWF because no one want to deal with farm, dcs, camp and tunnel. I can stand your point. But SWF kills every killer strategy in this game and that's a problem. Not balanced at all
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It can be pretty hard to play survivor without a plethora of free perks, unlimited map knowledge and timing communication, all with the possibility of a misplay or gamebreaking decision just a second away. In a game designed around capitalizing on misplays, having limited map knowledge, and not knowing the other players' perks, I also curse the filthy solo players for playing so poorly.
Luckily, SWF members never DC en masse when the game isn't going their way, as DC'ing is a filthy solo tactic, so we, the SWF Master Race, can all enjoy the game as intended - Terror free and with unlimited knowledge.
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@PoisonN You really believe SWF kills EVERY strategy that a killer can have?
What does that say about the killers who stomp on SWF groups? They just got lucky?
Also, not every SWF group brings all those things you mention. I am only speaking from experience, because my friends refuse to go into a match with randoms that are likely to DC. Thats why I even brought it up.
For myself, I will go into a match expecting it. They'll have names like Nurse = DC, Mori = DC, you can often tell the ones that will DC. That's not even surprising at this point. Hence why many survivors feel the need to play sweaty.
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No, mistakes survivors make is only reason why we still have some killers left. You want to "fix" freedom of playstyle/choice. Other survivors are as much as your teammates as your rivals. They have a choice to help you or not.
SWF is incredibly broken since it changes survivors into hivemind. It gives you tremendous amount of information completely for free and what's even worse it can give you 4 really good survivors in each match consistently. DBD is not even remotely balanced around SWF and what you want is to make solo like SWF. If that even happens each killer would needed to be buffed to nurse level otherwise nobody in their right mind would want to play killer ever.
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SWF is not balanced lol
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The killers who stomp SWF are Nurses, Spirits, Billys and... they bring moris, omegablinks, prayer breads, can be tunnelers and things like that. As a survivor, do you think this is fun? I don't think so.
I refuse to play with overpower killers that I don't like just to have a win or use moris/op add ons against good SWFs. Of course, this is also my experience and my point of view wich have a little empathy with survivors but SWF can be a problem and that's why everyone are always complaining about them.
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@johnny_XMan and SWF and Solo Queuing aren't two different things, too? I simply used your logic.
Just as SWF is your saving grace from Solo Queuing, Nurse is a lot of killer's saving grace from weaker killers. That doesn't mean Nurse and SWF are balanced, however.
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@PoisonN I have seen killers in red ranks stomp on SWF groups. One being the one in your own icon.
@Kebek I've never disagreed that there is a clear advantage in SWF vs Solo Surviving. The balance I find in SWF is from my own experience in Solo surviving. I'm not even talking about perk coordination or communication, I'm talking about using time properly, and survival efficiency throughout the match.
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Nah, only Umbra, Coco or Ralph can turn Huntress in a monster but they still got issues against organized SWFs in some maps
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@PoisonN I mean there are more people who play Huntress than that at rank 1, so...
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But you aren't supposed to have efficiency as high as SWF makes it. When someone gets hooked in game with solos you don't know if others go for the save and you can possibly waster time just from not knowing. That's how it's supposed to be.
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I miss the LOL react.
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No they do not. Rank is not a reward. It's a match making tool to ensure you play against people of similar skill. SWF, however, should be just like KYF and be it's own category that doesn't award points.
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Or you know how SWF inherently gets about 10 free perks just for being on comms and also negates certain killer perks as well as some add ons.
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Noticing that the thread is now a total retread of every discussion that has ever been had about SWF, which is what happens when an SWF-related thread starts with a non sequiter.
A reminder that the devs said they would never allow premades into ranked play just weeks before they introduced SWF. At a glance, that appears to be one of two or three dev-streams that are not available on their Youtube channel.
It would be awfully inconvenient if it was available, because it would reflect poorly on an answer they gave to a question in a Q&A stream last October, where they stated they always intended for it and had been working on the code before release. Both this and the missing dev-stream can't both be true. It's livestream #6 from June 2016 right afte release, if anyone stumbles on it.
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I am one of the randoms cause I can't stand swf. It just ruins my experience, but I do run team aiding perks. The only issue I see with swf is that it eliminates alot of those mistakes that the Dev's seem to balance around.
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@ArecBalrin They deleted it very well. Not even a Google search using various keywords brings up anything. Convenient. Don't you just love revisionist history? BHVR is very, very good at it when it comes to SWF.
As Eugene Krabs would say: Money, money, money, money, money.
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So your simply saying that SWF is balanced because there are more solo teams then SWF teams? ok, good logic
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Yes they do. It doesn't ensure you play against people with similar skill. When you said SWF should be its own category, you still need a killer to begin the match. Which is why Casual mode is necessary and ranked has different balancing.
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Nurse is balanced
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To be fair, we still dont have "ranked play".
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@MrsPiggyisSoSneaky What are you even going on about? I never said that SWF is balanced because there are more solo teams. That doesn't even make any sense.
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@Lmronby Nice trolling. Does it make you feel better?
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Randoms being bad doesn't make SWF balanced. The game was never intended to have Survivors voice chatting.
Similar to Nurse vs. other Killers, you have OP on one side and pathetic on the other, but if we're talking about that 2 kill average, I only see it on solo games.
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@PoisonN One major reason why I started to play SWF more often was indeed the high amount of DC's.
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SWF is balanced because random survivors suck? That's like saying 5 blink Nurse is balanced because Freddy sucks
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Best I can do since Downvote was removed
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Nah mate, it ain't.
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So 4 man swf is balanced cuz random survivors make mistakes in solo que? Well okay then.
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Hey as long as I have fun they can be swf it doesn’t matter
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I mean all I ask is a fair chance at killing lol
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Play killer more often and you will say thats wrong, have you ever been a rank 1 killer?
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Some notions, most of these have been thrown around a bunch.
- SWF is not going to go away, people like playing with their friends, and there is nothing to prevent players from using Discord.
- There are ways to deal with the huge advantage coms give an organized group: Nurse, maybe Billy or Spirit with strong addons.
- Most of us killers don't want to play OP killers and builds all the time. But once we hit red ranks, we have to.
- Balancing the game in a way that it's fair to solos, SWF and killers is impossible.
- Ranked vs casual mode is not really an option, if both give BP everyone will play casual, if only ranked does, everyone will play ranked. Separating SWF and non SWF lobbies is even less doable: survivor queues will take forever.
I think the best approach is to mark people who join your lobby as SWF. Give killers the information so we know what we're up against. If it's four solos, I'll be happy to take Clown or Doc with brown addons. If it's a 3-4 SWF group, then I get my omega Nurse.
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Really, the biggest problem I ever see in these arguments is people treating SWF and Solo survivors as the one thing, either nerf SWF or buff Solo. That's not fair however, since it either completely ######### with SWF's, or completely ######### with killers. We need to step back and not look at this issue, but the problems surrounding it the mechanics laying beneath it.
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To survivor mains it is but they are entitled little brats so nothing new there
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This is not even close to true. I'll tell you right now that SWF is no better than solo, simply because they DC after running you around and wasting your time. They know they're about to die, so they run you ragged, then DC, giving their buddies a chance to fix gens. If you don't chase them and let them break off, to hun the others, they just heal up and do it again.
A SWF team almost always had a designated looper, and 90% of the time, they'll DC when I'm their last down before you get them to their hook. They also tend to like to spam nasty messages after leaving the match, should you do anything not in line with their imagined "game etiquette".
Of course, there are also the Killers that IMMEDIATELY disconnect in the lobby after making you wait, should survivors show up in groups to purposely avoid SWF. So no, sir, it's not more balanced. Things like window vacuum "latency" and little ticks with certain Killers AND Survivors need to be addressed, if you want some decent balance.
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